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Old 06-03-2021, 01:05 PM   #51
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How do you define "front court?" In my book anyone who isn't a guard is "front court." I will change my statement though.

He only got 17 minutes a game and averaged 4.4 points and 2.9 rebounds on a team that was desperate for production from its forward positions. There, is that better?
i would bet that he plays very very little at the 4 this season ...

moser has already called him a Guard in interviews ...
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Old 06-03-2021, 01:08 PM   #52
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i would bet that he plays very very little at the 4 this season ...

moser has already called him a Guard in interviews ...
He doesn't have guard skills, not that I've seen anyway. I think he will play small forward. That's the frontcourt, but whatever.
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Old 06-03-2021, 01:37 PM   #53
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we have no idea how good Mason is ... he very much could be in the mix at back up PG
I'd take that bet.

The freshman are going to have trouble getting minutes this year. Roster is stacked with proven commodities. That is fine though. Cortes and Mason aren't the kind of recruits that should be coming to a school like OU and playing major minutes day 1.
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Old 06-03-2021, 01:40 PM   #54
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I'd take that bet.

The freshman are going to have trouble getting minutes this year. Roster is stacked with proven commodities. That is fine though. Cortes and Mason aren't the kind of recruits that should be coming to a school like OU and playing major minutes day 1.
Agree, but someone has to backup Goldwire.
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Old 06-03-2021, 01:49 PM   #55
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Agree, but someone has to backup Goldwire.
The position of PG is less and less important. Moser's offense can/will be initiated largely by T. Groves I think. Other than that, you just need guys that can create. I think we have other guards that can fit that description, especially in a back-up role.
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Old 06-03-2021, 02:44 PM   #56
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The position of PG is less and less important. Moser's offense can/will be initiated largely by T. Groves I think. Other than that, you just need guys that can create. I think we have other guards that can fit that description, especially in a back-up role.
That's fine, but there are minutes to be had. Goldwire, Noland, Gibson and Harkless can't play them all.

I consider Johnson and Hill as wing players.
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Old 06-03-2021, 02:57 PM   #57
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That's fine, but there are minutes to be had. Goldwire, Noland, Gibson and Harkless can't play them all.

I consider Johnson and Hill as wing players.
There really aren't though. Most teams play between 7 and MAYBE 9 players once the season gets serious.

For Mason or Cortes to crack that, to be top 9, they'd have to put themselves in front of TWO from this list:

Goldwire, Gibson, Harkless, Noland, Hill, Johnson, J. Groves, Mawein, Chargois, and T. Groves

I just don't see it. Take Noland out of that group, and you've got 9 pretty experienced, proven, talented players. They didn't bring in Johnson to not play him.

If you figure T. Groves, Chargois, J. Groves, and Mawein get most of the 4/5 minutes, that leaves Cortes/Mason fighting Goldwire, Gibson, Harkless, Hill, Johnson, and MAYBE Noland for minutes at the 1-3 spots. There just aren't many minutes left for somebody that may be the 6th or 7th best player for those three spots.

Maybe 1-2 guys from that list underachieve or get injured. Or maybe a guy like Cortes just can't miss and earns time that way. It's possible. Just seems unlikely.

Edit: Just ready your last sentence. Even with Johnson and Hill manning the 3, you still have 4 guys ahead of Cortes/Mason for the 1/2 spots. Most teams aren't going to go that deep once conference play starts. I never said they wouldn't play at all. I'm sure Moser will try to get them minutes where he can. But they won't play in competitive conference games unless something happens. IMO.
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Old 06-03-2021, 03:00 PM   #58
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There really aren't though. Most teams play between 7 and MAYBE 9 players once the season gets serious.

For Mason or Cortes to crack that, to be top 9, they'd have to put themselves in front of TWO from this list:

Goldwire, Gibson, Harkless, Noland, Hill, Johnson, J. Groves, Mawein, Chargois, and T. Groves

I just don't see it. Take Noland out of that group, and you've got 9 pretty experienced, proven, talented players. They didn't bring in Johnson to not play him.

If you figure T. Groves, Chargois, J. Groves, and Mawein get most of the 4/5 minutes, that leaves Cortes/Mason fighting Goldwire, Gibson, Harkless, Hill, Johnson, and MAYBE Noland for minutes at the 1-3 spots. There just aren't many minutes left for somebody that may be the 6th or 7th best player for those three spots.

Maybe 1-2 guys from that list underachieve or get injured. Or maybe a guy like Cortes just can't miss and earns time that way. It's possible. Just seems unlikely.

Edit: Just ready your last sentence. Even with Johnson and Hill manning the 3, you still have 4 guys ahead of Cortes/Mason for the 1/2 spots. Most teams aren't going to go that deep once conference play starts.
That's fair. Having watched Moser's teams, though, he does play a true point guard even a lot runs through the high post. Thus my point about needing a backup point guard.
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Old 06-03-2021, 06:53 PM   #59
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It’s funny that so many posters who claim to value good basketball players rather than just athletic projects downplay Hill, who does so many subtle things that impact games.
As one of said posters, I fully support Hill. If he's your worst starter, then you're probably a Sweet 16 team.
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Old 06-04-2021, 06:13 AM   #60
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He doesn't have guard skills, not that I've seen anyway. I think he will play small forward. That's the frontcourt, but whatever.
the 3 is a wing that is not a big ...
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Old 06-04-2021, 06:14 AM   #61
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I'd take that bet.

The freshman are going to have trouble getting minutes this year. Roster is stacked with proven commodities. That is fine though. Cortes and Mason aren't the kind of recruits that should be coming to a school like OU and playing major minutes day 1.
i think this vastly underrates Cortes .... he is very very good ..


i don't have any idea how good mason is
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Old 06-04-2021, 06:29 AM   #62
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the 3 is a wing that is not a big ...
I agree and it's still considered the frontcourt. It's semantics but my point is that he was very unproductive in that role last year. Maybe he will make a leap this year. Time will tell.
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Old 06-04-2021, 06:33 AM   #63
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For the 12,377th time…

It all depends on who you can DEFEND!!!!!!!

Moser doesn’t run a hi low offense. Ie… Kansas.

No traditional 2 post offense. Doesn’t mean he won’t run some hi low stuff.
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Old 06-04-2021, 06:40 AM   #64
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For the 12,377th time…

It all depends on who you can DEFEND!!!!!!!

Moser doesn’t run a hi low offense. Ie… Kansas.

No traditional 2 post offense. Doesn’t mean he won’t run some hi low stuff.
I don't see anyone disputing that. For the 13,453rd time. It's all about PRODUCTION!!!!!

If you only produce 4.4 points and 2.9 rebounds in 17 minutes per game on a team crying out for production from the 3/4 spot and the coach is bringing in guys who are better offensively, potentially much better, then you probably need to make a leap offensively yourself or you won't see the court much.
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Old 06-04-2021, 07:09 AM   #65
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Moser doesn’t run a hi low offense. Ie… Kansas.

No traditional 2 post offense. Doesn’t mean he won’t run some hi low stuff.
That is why I don't think Chargois will start next to T. Groves.

I'm not saying it couldn't work at all, but that just doesn't seem like the ideal fit to me. I think J. Groves and Mawein "fit" better next to Tanner, but of course they'll have to earn that with their play. Maybe you see Chargois at both spots some off the bench, but starting at the 4 next to T. Groves, I just don't love that idea given Moser's offense.
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Old 06-04-2021, 07:10 AM   #66
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That is why I don't think Chargois will start next to T. Groves.

I'm not saying it couldn't work at all, but that just doesn't seem like the ideal fit to me. I think J. Groves and Mawein "fit" better next to Tanner, but of course they'll have to earn that with their play. Maybe you see Chargois at both spots some off the bench, but starting at the 4 next to T. Groves, I just don't love that idea given Moser's offense.
i agree
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Old 06-04-2021, 07:11 AM   #67
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I'd bet lots of money that Mason is a RS all the way. Cortes I want/hope plays some at back up pg. I think Jalen Hill plays the 4 lots this year if Big Rick and Juco kid aren't ready for minutes. One of those two have to hit big for us I feel. Guard wise, I'd say Goldwire, Harkless get a majority of the minutes followed by Gibson/Johnson.. Then toss up between Noland or Groves.
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Old 06-04-2021, 07:13 AM   #68
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i think this vastly underrates Cortes .... he is very very good ..


i don't have any idea how good mason is
I guess we'll see. OU fans tend to overrate our incoming freshman every year. Especially those that aren't in the top 50-75 in their class.

I said it earlier, the ONE thing I think that could get Cortes on the court early is his shooting. If he is able to make 3 point shots at a clip that pretty much requires he play some, he'll find some minutes. Even then, I'd guess it tops out at 10 or so minutes per game. But I'm guessing if OU is an NCAA Tournament team (no reason they shouldn't be), and the upperclassmen play the way they should, I don't see Cortes getting a lot of minutes once conference play starts unless we're blowing teams out.
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Old 06-04-2021, 07:28 AM   #69
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I guess we'll see. OU fans tend to overrate our incoming freshman every year. Especially those that aren't in the top 50-75 in their class.

I said it earlier, the ONE thing I think that could get Cortes on the court early is his shooting. If he is able to make 3 point shots at a clip that pretty much requires he play some, he'll find some minutes. Even then, I'd guess it tops out at 10 or so minutes per game. But I'm guessing if OU is an NCAA Tournament team (no reason they shouldn't be), and the upperclassmen play the way they should, I don't see Cortes getting a lot of minutes once conference play starts unless we're blowing teams out.
i do agree with you that 10 or so min a game is about right ..
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:31 AM   #70
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That is why I don't think Chargois will start next to T. Groves.

I'm not saying it couldn't work at all, but that just doesn't seem like the ideal fit to me. I think J. Groves and Mawein "fit" better next to Tanner, but of course they'll have to earn that with their play. Maybe you see Chargois at both spots some off the bench, but starting at the 4 next to T. Groves, I just don't love that idea given Moser's offense.
I concur.

We’ll see how good Jacob is. He’s not close to tanner.
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Old 06-04-2021, 10:17 AM   #71
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I like this team.
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Old 06-04-2021, 11:05 AM   #72
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The thing I like about this lineup is the flexibility. I think we can win in a lot of different ways.

Bigs that can play inside or out in T Groves and Chagrois
Length/versatility that can guard and create mismatches at multiple positions with Mawein, Hill, J Groves, Marvin Jones
Goldwire and Harkless are swiss army knife guys. They do a little bit of everything.
Gibson is a quick shooter
Noland is a big, strong guard who can attack off the dribble

Throw in that our last three guys are Cortes, Mason, and Issanza, and we're going to be able to play a lot of different styles effectively.

Need a stop?
Goldwire
Harkless
Johnson
Hill
Chagrois

Need a bucket?
Noland
Gibson
Johnson
J Groves
T Groves

Run and Gun?
Goldwire
Harkless
Gibson
Johnson
Mawein

Shooters?
Any PG
Gibson
J Groves
Chagrois
T Groves
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