Dildy to Duke - Page 3

SoonerBounce13 · 07-28-2023, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

Wow -- that's some kind of spin.

I'm just trying to keep track of all the thing PM is great at. So far, we have had various posters praise him for: his high school recruiting; his portal recruiting; his offensive system; and. now, his ability to hire great assistants. So I guess with great players, a great system, and a great staff, it's no wonder we managed to win 5 of 19 conference games last season, and almost beat Sam Houston State!

I'll never understand the fascination of the sam houston state loss by you and a few others. Aside from it being the first game of the season (tons of odd upsets around the country generally), it was a last second loss against a decent team. No they aren't great, but they were a top 50 team in bpi, top 75 in kenpom, top 55 in rpi. by many metrics, they were rated a better team than we were at the end of the season.

SoonerBounce13 · 07-28-2023, 09:51 AM

nm

WichitaSooner · 07-28-2023, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaSooner

One guy Baylor hired ended up staying a long time and was a good assistant but was a HS guy with a mediocre rep among TX high school coaches and didn't have a degree when he was hired. Worked out well for them.

They hired another guy and paid him six figures just to bring John Wall there and he couldn't get that done....stayed a year or two and was out.

Usually guys who stay along time as an asst are guys who are tight with the head coach (long time friends, etc). A lot of the young guys are looking to move up quickly through the ranks. They're hired guns who stay somewhere a couple of years and look to move up. You see it a lot in the coaching world. It's part of the game and the life. Most people who have never been in it don't really know or understand it. It is what it is...and it has gotten worse over the years. It's almost like an AAU mentality. A lot of young coaches today think they should be head coaches right away and move a lot trying to move up quick.

I'd like to see some stability but the real stability in a program comes from the head coach. Assistants come and go. I'd like to see Moser have a couple really good assistants for a while too. Maybe he's tough to work for. I've known several guys who were. Maybe guys are just looking for the next jump. As long as he can replace them with quality guys I'm ok.

Tang: 19 years
Mills: 14 years
Driscoll: 6 years
McCasland: 5 years

All of them left for head coaching jobs. And again, these guys were there (and stayed for a long time) well before Baylor became an elite program. I have read several articles about their time there, and every one of them emphasizes one thing: it didn't feel like they worked for Drew, it felt like they worked with him. He gave them all a lot of responsibility and trusted them.

I have no clue how Moser is with his assistants during practice or off the floor. But his in-game coaching paints a picture of someone who doesn't like giving up much control to anyone. If that's how he is 24/7, I can see it being a tough working environment for assistants.

WichitaSooner · 07-28-2023, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

I'll never understand the fascination of the sam houston state loss by you and a few others. Aside from it being the first game of the season (tons of odd upsets around the country generally), it was a last second loss against a decent team. No they aren't great, but they were a top 50 team in bpi, top 75 in kenpom, top 55 in rpi. by many metrics, they were rated a better team than we were at the end of the season.

That last sentence makes my point better than I could make it myself. If the premise is that we shouldn't be so bummed to have blown a big lead and lost at home to SH because they were actually the better team, that says an awful lot about (a) the state of our program, and (b) how far the expectations of the fans have fallen.

SoonerBounce13 · 07-28-2023, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

That last sentence makes my point better than I could make it myself. If the premise is that we shouldn't be so bummed to have blown a big lead and lost at home to SH because they were actually the better team, that says an awful lot about (a) the state of our program, and (b) how far the expectations of the fans have fallen.

i think we all agree the state of the program is bad and not acceptable.

But again, hanging onto the sam houston loss is just odd....even if we were a ranked team it isn't something to gripe about. Games like that happen early in the season in college basketball to really good teams

Soonerinkc · 07-28-2023, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

The good news keeps on coming.

I realize people will spin this and continue arguing that all/most the assistants who have left have done so for promotions, etc. But whatever slim chance Moser has of building a respectable program decreases each time he loses a coach late in the offseason. KU has had tons of stability in their assistant coaches. Baylor, even before it became an elite program, kept a lot of their guys for many years. Meanwhile, we are a revolving door. Yay us.

I live in KC and absolutely HATE ku ball...

but to your point...maybe they are like Cale Gundy....just really enjoy being an assistant making great money on a great program but don't have to put up with the bs of a HC...just a thought.

Soonerinkc · 07-28-2023, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyvue

It seems that either Coach Moser is difficult to work with or he has an exceptional gift for recognizing coaching talent.

yes....

61sooner · 07-28-2023, 06:20 PM

Could it be that when an assistant isn't sure about job security, that is the head coach is on a hot griddle seat, better to get out ahead of the situation rather than suddenly find yourself unemployed.

hoopsaustin · 07-28-2023, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

i think we all agree the state of the program is bad and not acceptable.

But again, hanging onto the sam houston loss is just odd....even if we were a ranked team it isn't something to gripe about. Games like that happen early in the season in college basketball to really good teams

Dead wrong here. At ou, we dont know lose to SHSU

Eielson · 07-28-2023, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsaustin

Dead wrong here. At ou, we dont know lose to SHSU

Is it better to lose to UT-Arlington and SFA?

SoonerBounce13 · 07-28-2023, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsaustin

Dead wrong here. At ou, we dont know lose to SHSU

You don’t pay attention to early season college bball

WichitaSooner · 07-28-2023, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

You don’t pay attention to early season college bball

You’re comparing applies to oranges. A good (ranked) team getting upset early in the season … yes, that does happen, and it usually isn’t that big a deal in the long run. But our loss to them was a big deal precisely because, as you yourself noted, Sam Houston was likely a better team than we were. That’s the unacceptable part, and it’s why that loss was so telling.

The other thing I’d say about that game is that the way we lost was brutal. Moser had spent the offseason talking about two main goals: cutting down turnovers, and executing better down the stretch. Yet they failed miserably in both categories in blowing a double digit lead late. Not being able to succeed in the areas that you’ve spent an entire offseason working on … it was a terrible start to the season. And it didn’t turn out to be an aberration.

SoonerBounce13 · 07-29-2023, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

You’re comparing applies to oranges. A good (ranked) team getting upset early in the season … yes, that does happen, and it usually isn’t that big a deal in the long run. But our loss to them was a big deal precisely because, as you yourself noted, Sam Houston was likely a better team than we were. That’s the unacceptable part, and it’s why that loss was so telling.

The other thing I’d say about that game is that the way we lost was brutal. Moser had spent the offseason talking about two main goals: cutting down turnovers, and executing better down the stretch. Yet they failed miserably in both categories in blowing a double digit lead late. Not being able to succeed in the areas that you’ve spent an entire offseason working on … it was a terrible start to the season. And it didn’t turn out to be an aberration.

So losing to a bad team is ok when you are a good team but not when you are a bad team

Makes perfect sense lol

allday92 · 07-29-2023, 07:39 AM

Sam Houston St finished 73rd in KenPom this year. SFA finished 70th in KenPom the year they beat us. It may be a bad loss based on the team name, but they both brought good and veteran squads to Norman.

steverocks35 · 07-29-2023, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allday92

Sam Houston St finished 73rd in KenPom this year. SFA finished 70th in KenPom the year they beat us. It may be a bad loss based on the team name, but they both brought good and veteran squads to Norman.

Do you think KU or Duke fans would rationalize a horrible loss like this?

NorthCarolinaSooner · 07-29-2023, 09:27 AM

Every year there are bad losses across the country....we were an average team last year with some good wins and some confusing losses. It happens.

It isn't reserved to just Oklahoma. Duke has had a few over the years, including losses to Mercer and Lehigh on the biggest stage. I saw that Mercer team up close and they were pretty good but they should not have beaten Duke.

I get it...people who want to get rid of Moser want to highlight the bad losses and blow off the successes (i.e. the beat down of Bama). Everyone can focus on whatever games they want to use for their argument. We all want the same thing in the end (more success). Hopefully we start to see more consistency this year.

OkieTC · 07-29-2023, 09:54 AM

Well said. So tired of all the negativity from certain posters. I personally had hoped to replace Moser at the end of last season, even though I kind of like him, but….we didn’t. So let’s see how this seasons team looks after 5-6 games before we start up all the negative talk. I too wish we had picked up a prototype 4 man, but…we didn’t. So let’s see what the guys we did get do. I actually am excited and hopeful that we might see a more athletic and up tempo team this season that maybe wins some of the close ones we lost last year. If we don’t, then let the haters hate.

WichitaSooner · 07-29-2023, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

So losing to a bad team is ok when you are a good team but not when you are a bad team

Makes perfect sense lol

Yes, it does make sense. Flukes happen. If you have one clunker in a long season, that’s understandable. When you are bad for an entire season like we were, that’s clearly worse than having one or two bad nights. Is that a difficult concept?

WichitaSooner · 07-29-2023, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaSooner

Every year there are bad losses across the country....we were an average team last year with some good wins and some confusing losses. It happens.

It isn't reserved to just Oklahoma. Duke has had a few over the years, including losses to Mercer and Lehigh on the biggest stage. I saw that Mercer team up close and they were pretty good but they should not have beaten Duke.

I get it...people who want to get rid of Moser want to highlight the bad losses and blow off the successes (i.e. the beat down of Bama). Everyone can focus on whatever games they want to use for their argument. We all want the same thing in the end (more success). Hopefully we start to see more consistency this year.

At least those Duke teams made it to the biggest stage. And I don’t have to focus on one game. I’ll focus on the fact we played 32 games and lost more than we won. Or the fact that we lost 14 of 19 against our league. I mention Sam Houston because it’s especially embarrassing, but I’d be just as happy to cover all the other games. But man I get warm feelings thinking about that Bama game.

Eielson · 07-29-2023, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steverocks35

Do you think KU or Duke fans would rationalize a horrible loss like this?

I feel like I'm as high as anybody on how historically good OU's basketball program is, but comparing our basketball to KU and Duke is silly.

Nobody is happy with the SHSU loss. Just like we weren't happy with either of the two preceding coaches losing to SFA or the time Lon's squad got run off the court by UT-Arlington.

NorthCarolinaSooner · 07-29-2023, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

At least those Duke teams made it to the biggest stage. And I don’t have to focus on one game. I’ll focus on the fact we played 32 games and lost more than we won. Or the fact that we lost 14 of 19 against our league. I mention Sam Houston because it’s especially embarrassing, but I’d be just as happy to cover all the other games. But man I get warm feelings thinking about that Bama game.

Everyone here gets that you hate Moser like he slept with your wife but man, it has to be hard work looking at EVERYTHING through negative views like that. I'm teasing of course but dude...try to overlook your dislike of Moser to seethe few positives and try to hope for better this year.

Last year sucked....his first year wasn't nearly as bad...I'm hoping this year is a shade better than year one and a LOT better than year two.

mict085 · 07-29-2023, 04:00 PM

I wasn’t happy about the Sam Houston loss but I was more unhappy about the 15 losses after that one. It’s not any one game. It’s the sum total which hasn’t been good under moser. If we miss the tourney again, he should be fired. He probably won’t be, but he should be.

pnkranger · 07-29-2023, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mict085

I wasn’t happy about the Sam Houston loss but I was more unhappy about the 15 losses after that one. It’s not any one game. It’s the sum total which hasn’t been good under moser. If we miss the tourney again, he should be fired. He probably won’t be, but he should be.

Anything less than the tournament, and he should be fired. Can’t go three years here without an NCAA tournament. That simple.

Seymore Cox · 07-30-2023, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 61sooner

Could it be that when an assistant isn't sure about job security, that is the head coach is on a hot griddle seat, better to get out ahead of the situation rather than suddenly find yourself unemployed.

That’s all it is. These guys are having a circular debate about nothing. Hell, that’s how he ended up at OU, because he thought Collins was going to get fired at Northwestern.

steverocks35 · 07-30-2023, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eielson

I feel like I'm as high as anybody on how historically good OU's basketball program is, but comparing our basketball to KU and Duke is silly.

Nobody is happy with the SHSU loss. Just like we weren't happy with either of the two preceding coaches losing to SFA or the time Lon's squad got run off the court by UT-Arlington.

That's my point. Great programs don't make excuses.