Dildy to Duke - Page 2

CoachTalk · 07-27-2023, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom Soon

I'm not sure we can label the assistant coaches any type of way until they've been in the program long enough to make a difference.

You’d be wrong. 1-3 they are ranked.

WaymanFan · 07-27-2023, 02:04 PM

Here is the bigger concern in my eyes. All I've heard are rumors, but perhaps someone on here like Coach would be able to give a straight answer to this question: "Is Coach Moser A) more likely to empower his assistants to bring their skill sets to the table and do their jobs or B) micromanage his assistants to follow his instructions?"

Someone like Nick Saban can get away with falling under choice "B", but most head coaches in any sport this day and age will not be able to retain good assistants for very long with that outdated mindset.

Seymore Cox · 07-27-2023, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

The good news keeps on coming.

I realize people will spin this and continue arguing that all/most the assistants who have left have done so for promotions, etc. But whatever slim chance Moser has of building a respectable program decreases each time he loses a coach late in the offseason. KU has had tons of stability in their assistant coaches. Baylor, even before it became an elite program, kept a lot of their guys for many years. Meanwhile, we are a revolving door. Yay us.

That’s the old “stay ahead of getting fired” move.

WichitaSooner · 07-27-2023, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TINY

Are you going to give him a chance to hire another coach before you complain? So far, he has been doing a good job of hiring talented assistants. I bet he can do it again…

They aren't good hires for OU if they never stay. If I hire the best contractor in the city to build a house, but he leaves before he comes close to finishing the job, that isn't a good hire. Just because these guys are "talented" doesn't mean that they are helping our program. That's especially so if their strengths are recruiting and player development, because those things take time to bear fruit. I'd rather he hire an older guy who can help him with in-game strategy, and who may stick around long enough to have to renew his OK license plate.

skyvue · 07-27-2023, 02:39 PM

It seems that either Coach Moser is difficult to work with or he has an exceptional gift for recognizing coaching talent.

Boom Soon · 07-27-2023, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachTalk

You’d be wrong. 1-3 they are ranked.

I'm not sure ranking of assistant coaches matters considering there are so many variables program to program. I think 15-17 would support waiting on making judgements on any OU assistant coach.

CoachTalk · 07-27-2023, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom Soon

I'm not sure ranking of assistant coaches matters considering there are so many variables program to program. I think 15-17 would support waiting on making judgements on any OU assistant coach.

You can do that but Duke and Kentucky think they are good enough. They judged and thought Porter picks great ones.

SoonerBounce13 · 07-27-2023, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

They aren't good hires for OU if they never stay. If I hire the best contractor in the city to build a house, but he leaves before he comes close to finishing the job, that isn't a good hire. Just because these guys are "talented" doesn't mean that they are helping our program. That's especially so if their strengths are recruiting and player development, because those things take time to bear fruit. I'd rather he hire an older guy who can help him with in-game strategy, and who may stick around long enough to have to renew his OK license plate.

Disagree to an extent. It is a bit of revisionist history to claim a hire is bad based on the length of time they are with the team.

Eielson · 07-27-2023, 03:42 PM

UK's longest tenured assistant coach -- 3 years. Calipari must be awful.

Duke has had somebody for 5 years, so Scheyer must be a more pleasant person. The others were hired within the last year, though, so he should probably be on the hot seat.

WichitaSooner · 07-27-2023, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

Disagree to an extent. It is a bit of revisionist history to claim a hire is bad based on the length of time they are with the team.

It isn't revisionist history to argue that the man hiring these coaches should have a very good idea of whether they plan to stick around or bounce as soon as another school comes calling. Especially since Moser constantly preaches about wanting stability and long-term sustainability in a program.

There are two options here: Moser is hiring guys he expects to lose after a year or two, or he is surprised this is happening. If it's the former, it is a very silly approach to take when you haven't yet established a winning culture that can withstand this kind of turnover. If it's the latter, he isn't doing his homework before hiring them.

TINY · 07-27-2023, 03:49 PM

So the coach should aim to hire mediocre assistants that no one else wants for the sake of continuity? That is certainly an “idea”.

Eielson · 07-27-2023, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TINY

So the coach should aim to hire mediocre assistants that no one else wants for the sake of continuity? That is certainly an “idea”.

You could always hire an unambitious 60 year old white guy and hope that he doesn't say anything racist.

CoachTalk · 07-27-2023, 05:30 PM

There are about 10 maybe 20 asst coaches that might… say no to Duke. Maybe!

Once again. Some have no clue about coaching especially assistant coaching in the NCAA.

WichitaSooner · 07-27-2023, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TINY

So the coach should aim to hire mediocre assistants that no one else wants for the sake of continuity? That is certainly an “idea”.

Who said mediocre? Were Baylor’ s guys mediocre? Kansas? The guys on Kelvin’s staff? All the other assistants across the country who have stayed at one place for a long time?

But gosh, thank goodness we had such great assistants. We would have really struggled to win games in our league with a “mediocre” staff.

WichitaSooner · 07-27-2023, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachTalk

There are about 10 maybe 20 asst coaches that might… say no to Duke. Maybe!

Once again. Some have no clue about coaching especially assistant coaching in the NCAA.

Once again, you can’t fully read posts and comprehend. Not a single person on this thread has suggested he should have turned them down, or that losing a coach to Duke in and of itself is alarming. You just blow off the fact that it’s a trend and we have lost a ton of coaches in two years.

But hey, I don’t coach college, so what do I know?

Eielson · 07-27-2023, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

Not a single person on this thread has suggested...that losing a coach to Duke in and of itself is alarming.

Great, it's settled. Dildy going to Duke isn't alarming.

This offseason can't end soon enough.

CoachTalk · 07-27-2023, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

Once again, you can’t fully read posts and comprehend. Not a single person on this thread has suggested he should have turned them down, or that losing a coach to Duke in and of itself is alarming. You just blow off the fact that it’s a trend and we have lost a ton of coaches in two years.

But hey, I don’t coach college, so what do I know?

What trend?

Sac state guy took a head coach and $500k pay cut to do so… But he wanted to be a HC
Turner took uk
Dildy took Duke.

Old dude had an affair he got fired.

What is alarming? Sure sucks. I can completely understand it sucks! He’s a grinder. Some don’t like that.

Timing is awful!!! But Celtics stole so Duke stole.

Ku Baylor staffs are unique. I give you that. Those are more old school 1 job for a long time like the older generations.

SoonerBounce13 · 07-27-2023, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

It isn't revisionist history to argue that the man hiring these coaches should have a very good idea of whether they plan to stick around or bounce as soon as another school comes calling. Especially since Moser constantly preaches about wanting stability and long-term sustainability in a program.

There are two options here: Moser is hiring guys he expects to lose after a year or two, or he is surprised this is happening. If it's the former, it is a very silly approach to take when you haven't yet established a winning culture that can withstand this kind of turnover. If it's the latter, he isn't doing his homework before hiring them.

No offense but this is ridiculous

WaymanFan · 07-28-2023, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachTalk

What trend?

Sac state guy took a head coach and $500k pay cut to do so… But he wanted to be a HC
Turner took uk
Dildy took Duke.

Old dude had an affair he got fired.

What is alarming? Sure sucks. I can completely understand it sucks! He’s a grinder. Some don’t like that.

Timing is awful!!! But Celtics stole so Duke stole.

Ku Baylor staffs are unique. I give you that. Those are more old school 1 job for a long time like the older generations.

There is nothing alarming like you said. However, it doesn't appear anyone has the answer for my question listed near the top of this second page. That will determine how things will play out going forward since Coach Moser has now been a head coach for two years at the high D-1 level (so there is now enough of a sample size of his coaching style as a boss).

WichitaSooner · 07-28-2023, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

No offense but this is ridiculous

I don’t take offense because your post is meaningless. When someone can’t bother to even try to refute the arguments I make, I don’t give it a second thought.

WichitaSooner · 07-28-2023, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachTalk

What trend?

Sac state guy took a head coach and $500k pay cut to do so… But he wanted to be a HC
Turner took uk
Dildy took Duke.

Old dude had an affair he got fired.

What is alarming? Sure sucks. I can completely understand it sucks! He’s a grinder. Some don’t like that.

Timing is awful!!! But Celtics stole so Duke stole.

Ku Baylor staffs are unique. I give you that. Those are more old school 1 job for a long time like the older generations.

IOf course the specifics vary … not every assistant left for the exact same position or reason. That will never be the case. But they all left, and they all left in short order. If Humph were to leave tomorrow, I’m sure you could find a way to distinguish the precise circumstances, too, but it would still be the continuation of a theme.

And as I argued yesterday, if Moser can’t keep the younger coaches, then perhaps it’s time he hire a more experienced coach who can help him more during games. I mean, anyone who can design some BLOB plays or help us inbound the ball against any form of backcourt pressure would be welcome, especially if it’s a guy who wants to stick around.

allday92 · 07-28-2023, 07:42 AM

All this shows is that Porter has an eye for coaching talent. Patrick, Turner, and Dildy have strengths in recruiting and relationships which is what OU needs. It will become a disturbing trend when coaches leave for lateral moves or moves that are a step down. Until then, there is no reason to get mad that our head coach is hiring coaches that blue bloods would also want.

Not only did Turner and Dildy leave for blue bloods, they also left for significant raises. Turner left for a 25% raise in year 1, and would be making $150k more this season at Kentucky then he would have at OU. Duke is a private institution, so salaries aren't public, but Dildy is making a lot more...it's Duke. I can't remember the last time the OU board of regents had an emergency session to raise an assistant coaches salary to match a competing offer, especially for basketball.

Think the Baylor and KU comps are baseless. Jerome Tang was coaching small town high school basketball when Drew hired him. He had no choice but to stay. Norm Roberts left KU, became a head coach at St. John's and is now back on staff.

Porter's next assistant should not only be in the same mold of Patrick, Turner, and Dildy but also have a connection to the program so they might be in for the long haul -- Quannas White or Hollis Price. Hard pass on older assistants like Pooh Williamson or Jim Molinari - we'll be stuck on the treadmill of mediocrity forever.

NorthCarolinaSooner · 07-28-2023, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

Who said mediocre? Were Baylor’ s guys mediocre? Kansas? The guys on Kelvin’s staff? All the other assistants across the country who have stayed at one place for a long time?

But gosh, thank goodness we had such great assistants. We would have really struggled to win games in our league with a “mediocre” staff.

One guy Baylor hired ended up staying a long time and was a good assistant but was a HS guy with a mediocre rep among TX high school coaches and didn't have a degree when he was hired. Worked out well for them.

They hired another guy and paid him six figures just to bring John Wall there and he couldn't get that done....stayed a year or two and was out.

Usually guys who stay along time as an asst are guys who are tight with the head coach (long time friends, etc). A lot of the young guys are looking to move up quickly through the ranks. They're hired guns who stay somewhere a couple of years and look to move up. You see it a lot in the coaching world. It's part of the game and the life. Most people who have never been in it don't really know or understand it. It is what it is...and it has gotten worse over the years. It's almost like an AAU mentality. A lot of young coaches today think they should be head coaches right away and move a lot trying to move up quick.

I'd like to see some stability but the real stability in a program comes from the head coach. Assistants come and go. I'd like to see Moser have a couple really good assistants for a while too. Maybe he's tough to work for. I've known several guys who were. Maybe guys are just looking for the next jump. As long as he can replace them with quality guys I'm ok.

SoonerBounce13 · 07-28-2023, 09:38 AM

It probably shows more about the program as a whole than about PM.
We are a stepping stone school now.
Need more investment into bball

WichitaSooner · 07-28-2023, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allday92

All this shows is that Porter has an eye for coaching talent. Patrick, Turner, and Dildy have strengths in recruiting and relationships which is what OU needs. It will become a disturbing trend when coaches leave for lateral moves or moves that are a step down. Until then, there is no reason to get mad that our head coach is hiring coaches that blue bloods would also want.

Not only did Turner and Dildy leave for blue bloods, they also left for significant raises. Turner left for a 25% raise in year 1, and would be making $150k more this season at Kentucky then he would have at OU. Duke is a private institution, so salaries aren't public, but Dildy is making a lot more...it's Duke. I can't remember the last time the OU board of regents had an emergency session to raise an assistant coaches salary to match a competing offer, especially for basketball.

Think the Baylor and KU comps are baseless. Jerome Tang was coaching small town high school basketball when Drew hired him. He had no choice but to stay. Norm Roberts left KU, became a head coach at St. John's and is now back on staff.

Porter's next assistant should not only be in the same mold of Patrick, Turner, and Dildy but also have a connection to the program so they might be in for the long haul -- Quannas White or Hollis Price. Hard pass on older assistants like Pooh Williamson or Jim Molinari - we'll be stuck on the treadmill of mediocrity forever.

Wow -- that's some kind of spin.

I'm just trying to keep track of all the thing PM is great at. So far, we have had various posters praise him for: his high school recruiting; his portal recruiting; his offensive system; and. now, his ability to hire great assistants. So I guess with great players, a great system, and a great staff, it's no wonder we managed to win 5 of 19 conference games last season, and almost beat Sam Houston State!