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Old 01-10-2021, 05:49 PM   #51
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Its not about you. You dont give him credit for the ones that do pan out. So all I do is ask the same.

Coach Cal and Coach K miss as well and they are paying for 5 stars.
Of course I do... Lon does an excellent job recruiting high school kids in Oklahoma. It's the mainstay of the program. It's the backbone. Any recruiting strategy should start with that.

Brady Manek, Trae Young, Kristian Doolittle, etc. And then guys from the area like Harmon, Hield. Lots of super-stars in that group. I know I am leaving players out. But OU has done an incredible job with local talent.

My strategy has ALWAYS called for a combination of the best local high school talent from Oklahoma, Texas, etc in combination with the best juco talent to fill gaps, add talent, etc.

That's why I always say Lon went to Australia or Finland for some random dude when he had someone right here.... The "rest" of his recruiting strategy doesn't match what he does well. All he has to do is diligently recruit local jucos in combination with his ability to recruit local high school talent and OU will be rocking and rolling.

Missing is one thing... not even trying is another.
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:58 PM   #52
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You forgot option #4..... OU hires a coach who knows how to recruit to Oklahoma. Of course we sign good players, because we are OU, but top to bottom roster management has been poor.

Case and point...

Class of 2019.

OU goes to Australia and signs Anyang Garang. In Big 12 play this year Anyang has the following stats: 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and 0 minutes. He can't get on the floor.

2.5 hours from Norman was Taz Sherman, at Collin County CC. OU did not offer this player and he went to WVU. In Big 12 play this year Taz has the following stats:

Texas: 17 points
OSU: 20 points
OU: 19 points
ISU: 10 points
KU: 2 points (14 minutes)

Averaging 14 a game against Big 12 competition.

If you scout well enough to identify a good player 2 hours from your campus, instead of signing someone who can't play from Australia, OU is a significantly better team RIGHT NOW.

1 major impact player is the difference between losing a close game to Texas Tech, a close game to Kansas, etc and losing. You got 0 from Garang. We may have gotten from 15 from Taz.

It's not defensible.

Look at this 2019 recruiting class:
Issanza - Can't get on the floor
Garang - Can't get on the floor
Merritt - Couldn't get on the floor and transferred
Harmon - Good player
Alondes - Good player
Victor - Good player

At some point the administration at OU will realize OU's recruiting problem.... I honestly can't believe more of you don't recognize it either. I know you guys would rather defend Lon than agree with me, but it's just so obvious. It's right there. I don't know why you can't see it. But eventually someone will, and OU will bring in someone who understands, and OU will become mor relevant in the Big 12 again.
If he would’ve had Sherman over Gibson then OU loses that game. Also OU’s best player is a transfer. This isn’t 2005, juco isn’t the same since prep school & grant waivers started happening. Also getting mad that the 11-13th players don’t get on the floor is laughable.

And another thing I’ve beat to death is Juco kids 90% of the time come with baggage, which LK won’t put up with.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:02 PM   #53
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If he wouldíve had Sherman over Gibson then OU loses that game. Also OUís best player is a transfer. This isnít 2005, juco isnít the same since prep school & grant waivers started happening. Also getting mad that the 11-13th players donít get on the floor is laughable.

And another thing Iíve beat to death is Juco kids 90% of the time come with baggage, which LK wonít put up with.
Sherman came in the same class as Anyang Garang. Not Gibson... We went to Australia to recruit a guy who can't play and didn't offer a kid next door who is doing well. He has no known baggage.... This is not a defensible position.

Also, Gibson has followed up that game with a 5 point game and a 3 point game, much closer to his season average.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:05 PM   #54
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Of course I do... Lon does an excellent job recruiting high school kids in Oklahoma. It's the mainstay of the program. It's the backbone. Any recruiting strategy should start with that.

Brady Manek, Trae Young, Kristian Doolittle, etc. And then guys from the area like Harmon, Hield. Lots of super-stars in that group. I know I am leaving players out. But OU has done an incredible job with local talent.

My strategy has ALWAYS called for a combination of the best local high school talent from Oklahoma, Texas, etc in combination with the best juco talent to fill gaps, add talent, etc.

That's why I always say Lon went to Australia or Finland for some random dude when he had someone right here.... The "rest" of his recruiting strategy doesn't match what he does well. All he has to do is diligently recruit local jucos in combination with his ability to recruit local high school talent and OU will be rocking and rolling.

Missing is one thing... not even trying is another.
Good post.

One note of caution: a lot of times, with JUCOs, you're discrediting the fact that they might not be able to qualify for enrollment at the University of Oklahoma. Not always, but some.

I think Lon has done a very poor job of raising the talent level here following the Final Four. I don't think we're deep enough.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:09 PM   #55
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Sherman came in the same class as Anyang Garang. Not Gibson... We went to Australia to recruit a guy who can't play and didn't offer a kid next door who is doing well. He has no known baggage.... This is not a defensible position.

Also, Gibson has followed up that game with a 5 point game and a 3 point game, much closer to his season average.
Ok so the same year OU got Reaves, Harmon, & Williams? This is a dumb argument. How come WVU didnít recruit one of those 3 besides their 13th best player?

Hindsight is amazing
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:27 PM   #56
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Ok so the same year OU got Reaves, Harmon, & Williams? This is a dumb argument. How come WVU didn’t recruit one of those 3 besides their 13th best player?

Hindsight is amazing


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Old 01-10-2021, 06:43 PM   #57
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We can read. We donít need a picture book.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:52 PM   #58
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Did I ever argue or bring up geography?
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:58 PM   #59
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Of course I do... Lon does an excellent job recruiting high school kids in Oklahoma. It's the mainstay of the program. It's the backbone. Any recruiting strategy should start with that.

Brady Manek, Trae Young, Kristian Doolittle, etc. And then guys from the area like Harmon, Hield. Lots of super-stars in that group. I know I am leaving players out. But OU has done an incredible job with local talent.

My strategy has ALWAYS called for a combination of the best local high school talent from Oklahoma, Texas, etc in combination with the best juco talent to fill gaps, add talent, etc.

That's why I always say Lon went to Australia or Finland for some random dude when he had someone right here.... The "rest" of his recruiting strategy doesn't match what he does well. All he has to do is diligently recruit local jucos in combination with his ability to recruit local high school talent and OU will be rocking and rolling.

Missing is one thing... not even trying is another.
yup...
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:25 PM   #60
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Taz Sherman... I like the name. Wish he was on our team.
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Old 01-10-2021, 11:50 PM   #61
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We have two jucos and two transfers on the team now. How many more short-term players should we have?
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Old 01-11-2021, 07:58 AM   #62
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When the Sooners end up with, say, the sixth seed in the Big 12 (but tie for a higher spot in the conference standings), many posters insist we finished sixth, period. Any mention of the tie gets mocked.

But when we earn the third seed in the Big 12 tourney (ahead of teams we keep hearing have left us in their dust, like Tech, WVA and texas), suddenly the fact that we were tied in the standings is all that matters; those same posters refuse to give the team credit for earning the higher seed.

You'd almost think some posters are inclined always to take a negative view of the team. But surely not.
Not my point point at all. I can give credit where it is due. I was excited and proud we got the 3 seed.

But context matters. The difference between the 3 seed and the 6 seed was 0 wins and 0 losses.

I can give credit where it is due. Can you give criticism where it is due?
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Old 01-11-2021, 08:01 AM   #63
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OU wasnít ďluckyĒ to make the dance any of those years. OU was solidly in.


Solidly in with a 7-11 record?

c'mon

It wasn't long ago that you wouldn't sniff the tourney without an even conference record. OU got the benefit of having trae young one year and got lucky the next year.
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Old 01-11-2021, 08:08 AM   #64
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The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers donít want $$
4.) make a coaching change

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You forgot option #4..... OU hires a coach who knows how to recruit to Oklahoma. Of course we sign good players, because we are OU, but top to bottom roster management has been poor.

Case and point...

Class of 2019.

OU goes to Australia and signs Anyang Garang. In Big 12 play this year Anyang has the following stats: 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and 0 minutes. He can't get on the floor.

2.5 hours from Norman was Taz Sherman, at Collin County CC. OU did not offer this player and he went to WVU. In Big 12 play this year Taz has the following stats:

Texas: 17 points
OSU: 20 points
OU: 19 points
ISU: 10 points
KU: 2 points (14 minutes)

Averaging 14 a game against Big 12 competition.

If you scout well enough to identify a good player 2 hours from your campus, instead of signing someone who can't play from Australia, OU is a significantly better team RIGHT NOW.

1 major impact player is the difference between losing a close game to Texas Tech, a close game to Kansas, etc and losing. You got 0 from Garang. We may have gotten from 15 from Taz.

It's not defensible.

Look at this 2019 recruiting class:
Issanza - Can't get on the floor
Garang - Can't get on the floor
Merritt - Couldn't get on the floor and transferred
Harmon - Good player
Alondes - Good player
Victor - Good player

At some point the administration at OU will realize OU's recruiting problem.... I honestly can't believe more of you don't recognize it either. I know you guys would rather defend Lon than agree with me, but it's just so obvious. It's right there. I don't know why you can't see it. But eventually someone will, and OU will bring in someone who understands, and OU will become mor relevant in the Big 12 again.
excellent post big. I really lost faith in kruger when he signed Merritt. It was amazingly easy to see that he would never see the floor at OU. Half the players we sign are signing guys just to sign a body.

I love OU basketball. But I have too much going on in my life to sit down and watch a game that we likely won't win and be reminded how far we have fallen. Until OU makes a coaching change or shows it is serious about supporting basketball. I'm not wasting my time
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Old 01-11-2021, 08:17 AM   #65
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Solidly in with a 7-11 record?

c'mon

It wasn't long ago that you wouldn't sniff the tourney without an even conference record. OU got the benefit of having trae young one year and got lucky the next year.
Lol
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Old 01-11-2021, 09:32 AM   #66
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Solidly in with a 7-11 record?

c'mon

It wasn't long ago that you wouldn't sniff the tourney without an even conference record. OU got the benefit of having trae young one year and got lucky the next year.
Were they in the "play in" game any year?
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Old 01-11-2021, 09:33 AM   #67
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4.) make a coaching change
Who would your coach of choice be?
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Old 01-11-2021, 09:45 AM   #68
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Who would your coach of choice be?
My candidates:

Eric Konkol - LA Tech
Craig Smith - Utah State
Leon Rice - Boise State
Frank Haith - Tulsa
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Old 01-11-2021, 09:52 AM   #69
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Who would your coach of choice be?
No idea. Not my job
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:04 AM   #70
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My candidates:

Eric Konkol - LA Tech
Craig Smith - Utah State
Leon Rice - Boise State
Frank Haith - Tulsa
Konkol - never won conference USA in 5 years, also finished 8th & 9th his 3rd & 4th years. Never been to an NCAA tournament.
Smith - I actually like, but to your own argument he has no experience in this area.
Rice - been at boise state 10 years, won conference once & team has slid the past 2 years.
Haith - lol

So you would let Kruger go, when he's got about 2-3 years left & has been consistent in the tournament, for one of these guys?
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:05 AM   #71
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No idea. Not my job
It's not your job to analyze the OU team but you have no problem doing that.
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:14 AM   #72
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Were they in the "play in" game any year?
nope they were not .... 9 teams were at large and seeded lower ..


but they don't want facts ..
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:20 AM   #73
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Good post.

One note of caution: a lot of times, with JUCOs, you're discrediting the fact that they might not be able to qualify for enrollment at the University of Oklahoma. Not always, but some.

I think Lon has done a very poor job of raising the talent level here following the Final Four. I don't think we're deep enough.
This. After the F4 season I think Lon had earned an easy and solid ďAĒ for the first part of his tenure. Took over a dumpster fire, landed some sneaky good recruits and a big transfer (Spangler), developed those players brilliantly, teams got better and went father each year, and it culminated with National relevance, a Final Four, and a player of the year. Thatís awesome and Lon will always have my respect for that run. I also give him a mulligan for the season following because I understand we arenít Kentucky and wonít be able to always follow up a F4 team full of seniors with another great crop immediately. That was an acceptable ďbadĒ season for me.

But since, Iíve been very disappointed and underwhelmed. This is now the fifth post-Buddy season and we are basically the same team we were last year, two years ago, three years ago.... a middle to bottom B12 team thatís on the bubble for the Dance. Assuming this season progresses as it has thus far, this will likely be the fourth straight season we arenít in the running for conference title at all and the fourth consecutive season we are in that tourney bubble discussion as March approaches. Is that ďbad?Ē No. It could be worse. But I expect more. I think over any five year period OU should probably produce at least one truly ďgoodĒ teamó a top 4 in the Dance type of team. Things feel very stagnant within the program. Our biggest recruits have been so-so and we arenít really uncovering any gems. The on-court coaching is also so-so for me. We mix in a really good effort with a poor one.

It all just feels very blah within the program right now. I think the guys play hard. They really gave it all they had on Saturday for sure. I think they are playing hard for Lon and I really have no problem with the overall effort. I also appreciate that Lon is a very good representative of the University; a great guy and one that commands respect. I very much like him personally and appreciate what heís done during his time here. But it also feels to me that he has possibly reached his pinnacle of effectiveness and it might be time to go in another direction as I feel the program needs a boost.
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:20 AM   #74
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It's not your job to analyze the OU team but you have no problem doing that.
It is a fan's job to be a fan. Being a fan means following the team and discussing the team.

It is not a fan's job to pick the next coach. I don't have the time, resources, or want to do a coaching search.

I do have the time and want to discuss the lack of program success and the plateau the program is on with Kruger
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:23 AM   #75
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nope they were not .... 9 teams were at large and seeded lower ..


but they don't want facts ..
I am fine with facts.

There are reasons that OU was selected over other at large teams. I don't deny that.

But a team at 7-11 in conference making the tournament doesn't happen very often and use to be unheard of.

And I stand by my comment that I don't think we deserved to get in. I said it at the time and I say it now. I"m glad we did, but I don't think we deserved it.

And the year we made it with trae was strictly because of Trae Young. The tourney wants stars in the tourney. We played amazing the first half of the year. By the end of the year, we were not one of the top 30 whatever at large teams.
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