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Old 01-09-2021, 09:09 AM   #26
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

I get that people have different definitions or expectations for what a respectable program should look like... I think OU has been a respectable program for years under Lon.

Thats said, I can’t remember the last time I was truly excited about basketball season. Think about how excited football fans are for a potential run next year... when was the last time we felt that about hoops?

Maybe that feeling is just me, but when recruiting continues to trend lower, player development wanes, and fans start to justify that a 3rd place finish is good enough.... these aren’t great indicators, and it seems to me that it’s time for a change. I love Lon, but the program feels stale and needs new blood.
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Old 01-09-2021, 10:07 AM   #27
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The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers don’t want $$
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Old 01-09-2021, 10:16 AM   #28
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The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers don’t want $$
In other words, we’re screwed!
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Old 01-09-2021, 10:37 AM   #29
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The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers don’t want $$
Which we all know none of that is going to happen.

But.

You have 2 more top 150 guards coming in. Bijan was there before he got “passed” bc of his summer missed.
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Old 01-09-2021, 12:24 PM   #30
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Zero excitement. And I love OU basketball. I would say it’s a recruiting problem, and that’s a big part of it, but it’s also development. None of these projects Lon signs ever pan out. But then you have the 3 top 150 guys, and all of them look like they are less confident than when they got here. I wonder how they’d be doing under different coaches? Who knows. OU has the ability to every once in awhile pull off a good to great game and all the pumpers on this board are quick to shame everybody with their indignation, but there’s never any consistency. Don’t get me started on this crap stand around and dribble offense that can’t get a good shot off against an average defense. Sure maybe Buddy and Isaiah et all could run it, but why can’t Lon adjust his schemes to the players he has every year? The only reason OU beat a top 10 team is because a new transfer went completely out of his mind from beyond the arc. Don’t get me started on the defense...

Just because you say you’re ready for a change doesn’t mean you hate Lon...
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Old 01-09-2021, 01:05 PM   #31
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Which we all know none of that is going to happen.

But.

You have 2 more top 150 guards coming in. Bijan was there before he got “passed” bc of his summer missed.
Coach, I’m excited about Bijan. O’Garro may be a good get as well. But I remember when the standard was Top 100, and so do you. Have our coaches lowered the bar on the caliber of player they’re recruiting now?

OU has signed a few good players over the years who were just outside the Top 100, so I’m fine with that. Top 150 is another story entirely. Maybe that’s why we end up with more than our share of projects.
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Old 01-09-2021, 01:09 PM   #32
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The only reason OU beat a top 10 team is because a new transfer went completely out of his mind from beyond the arc.
And the only reason we didn't at least take Tech to OT is that Reaves' tying tip-in rimmed out, a shot he makes nine times out of 10. Funny how that works, right? Discounting big wins because they didn't fit some template you have doesn't fly. Mo was taking shots because he was red-hot; if he hadn't been, we can't know if someone else would have stepped up.

As for development, Doo certainly developed. Kuath has developed. Reaves has developed. Manek, though he's in a funk right now, has developed. Victor has developed in his short time in Norman. So has Hill. Are those last two finished products? No, but it's still early and they've deveoped.
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Old 01-09-2021, 01:15 PM   #33
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

Some of this. Is like the only reason a running back has good games is because he brakes a few long runs. Type of logic.


Lol
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Old 01-09-2021, 01:26 PM   #34
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And the only reason we didn't at least take Tech to OT is that Reaves' tying tip-in rimmed out, a shot he makes nine times out of 10. Funny how that works, right? Discounting big wins because they didn't fit some template you have doesn't fly. Mo was taking shots because he was red-hot; if he hadn't been, we can't know if someone else would have stepped up.

As for development, Doo certainly developed. Kuath has developed. Reaves has developed. Manek, though he's in a funk right now, has developed. Victor has developed in his short time in Norman. So has Hill. Are those last two finished products? No, but it's still early and they've deveoped.
Got it. So, you think Kuath, Victor, and Hill have developed... Winner!

Manek the worst defender in the history of OU basketball. He is the least physical in the history of OU basketball. If he's not hitting 3s he's not much of a help. He has shown an inside offensive game(rarely) so that potential is there. But... Other than that, he seems to have developed into disappearing in OU's biggest games. It's his 4th year... he is what he is.

I'll tell you what's "funny how that works". You and a handful of others literally pouncing on every little negative thing a board member says. It would be one thing if the team was really good and it was just a bunch of hard to please negative nellies nitpicking. But it's not even close. OU is an average best Big 12 team and everyone can see but you. And it just seems to infuriate you and a few others who love to pounce on those who call it like it is.

You can spew and skew stats, argue till you're blue in face, but it doesn't change the overall fact of where OU is. Baylor, Texas Tech, Texas(this year) are proving that having a very good to great team is possible, even coming from a lesser overall program than OU. But here we are, winning JUST ENOUGH.... Well sorry, I'm tired of just enough. OU can do better. They have done much better in the past and could do it again.
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Old 01-09-2021, 01:40 PM   #35
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stikboy, basically as a Sooner hoops guy over Sooner football guy since the late 70's...i agree with you...

"He is the least physical in the history of OU basketball. If he's not hitting 3s he's not much of a help."

Brady DID get at least 2 really important O boards on the same possession against WVU.

really strong play.

i think we lose badly at AFH as usual and get on with it.

pretty good team, nothing great. lot easier to go down than up, these days. covid or no.
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Old 01-09-2021, 01:58 PM   #36
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I'll tell you what's "funny how that works". You and a handful of others literally pouncing on every little negative thing a board member says.
You'd prefer your posts go unresponded to by anyone who sees fallacies in your arguments? Sorry, that's not going to happen. Especially when you spew hyperbolic nonsense like "worst defender in the history of OU basketball."

Manek actually gets compliments on his defense pretty often from TV announcers. I tend to note them because of the steady stream of complaints from the Glass-Half-Empty crowd on this board. He's third on the team in rebounds, half a rebound per behind Kuath. He's second on the team in blocks, .3 per game behind Kuath. He leads the team in 3-pt %. He's had a bad three-game stretch, no doubt about it, but as was pointed out above, even in those games, he found ways to contribute. And if you think he's not better now than he was as a freshman, I don't know what to tell you.
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:11 PM   #37
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Come on man. I agree with some of what you say Sky but other teams have whoever Manek is guarding attack us over and over again because he’s a bad defender. That’s not a slam, it just is what it is. I said going in to this year that he was our best player too so I’m far from a hater.

He’s also a averaging a career low 4.4 rebounds per game.

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Old 01-09-2021, 02:18 PM   #38
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Come on man. I agree with some of what you say Sky but other teams have whoever Manek is guarding attack us over and over again because he’s a bad defender. That’s not a slam, it just is what it is. I said going in to this year that he was our best player too so I’m far from a hater.
I'm not saying defense is his strength, but he's not nearly as bad as he gets depicted by the GHE crowd on this board. Of the posts you chose to respond to, you opted for the one that didn't say he was the worst defender in the history of OU basketball?

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard an announcer compliment him on his defense over the past couple of seasons, I could enjoy a nice dinner on the town. Had i known we were going to cross over into "worst defender in the history of OU basketball" territory, I'd have kept a list of those comments from TV broadcasters.
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:34 PM   #39
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I'm not saying defense is his strength, but he's not nearly as bad as he gets depicted by the GHE crowd on this board. Of the posts you chose to respond to, you opted for the one that didn't say he was the worst defender in the history of OU basketball?

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard an announcer compliment him on his defense over the past couple of seasons, I could enjoy a nice dinner on the town. Had i known we were going to cross over into "worst defender in the history of OU basketball" territory, I'd have kept a list of those comments from TV broadcasters.
Yeah and Fran Fraschilla said our big three going into this year were Reaves, Manek, and, wait for it, Williams. Announcers don’t know much of anything.
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:45 PM   #40
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Yeah and Fran Fraschilla said our big three going into this year were Reaves, Manek, and, wait for it, Williams. Announcers don’t know much of anything.
And fans do?

Announcers may not be in a position to make predictions about any given team -- that would take serious homework to be that familiar before the season with all of the teams they cover. (And some posters on this board were predicting big things for Williams, too, citing the growth that generally happens for juco transfers between their junior and senior seasons.)

But announcers know what they're watching while calling a game -- especially a former coach like Fraschilla -- and I'd opt for his opinion over a fan's hyperbolic overreaction any time. I've criticized Fraschilla before, but he knows basketball better than most, if not all, of us.
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:51 PM   #41
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And fans do?

Announcers may not be in a position to make predictions about any given team -- that would take serious homework to be that familiar before the season with all of the teams they cover. (And some posters on this board were predicting big things for Williams, too, citing the growth that generally happens for juco transfers between their junior and senior seasons.)

But announcers know what they're watching while calling a game -- especially a former coach like Fraschilla -- and I'd opt for his opinion over a fan's hyperbolic overreaction any time. I've criticized Fraschilla before, but he knows basketball better than most, if not all, of us.
Yes I would say that fans who have watched every single OU game for years and know all our players, even the redshirts, inside and out know more than the announcers. Half the time the announcers can’t even get the names right. I laugh at how many plays they get wrong all the time.

In fact, during Fran’s preseason rundown of our team he touted Williams’s great defense. Every person on this board would roll their eyes at that statement. But it’s even worse when it’s an announcer that is even less familiar with the team than Fran.

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Old 01-09-2021, 03:12 PM   #42
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You'd prefer your posts go unresponded to by anyone who sees fallacies in your arguments? Sorry, that's not going to happen. Especially when you spew hyperbolic nonsense like "worst defender in the history of OU basketball."

Manek actually gets compliments on his defense pretty often from TV announcers. I tend to note them because of the steady stream of complaints from the Glass-Half-Empty crowd on this board. He's third on the team in rebounds, half a rebound per behind Kuath. He's second on the team in blocks, .3 per game behind Kuath. He leads the team in 3-pt %. He's had a bad three-game stretch, no doubt about it, but as was pointed out above, even in those games, he found ways to contribute. And if you think he's not better now than he was as a freshman, I don't know what to tell you.
No see that's the thing what you call a fallacy is actually the truth. I made a macro-comment relating to the state of OU basketball overall. You then go off on these mini-tangents trying to prove what exactly, I have no idea, for example.."third on the team in rebounds, .3 behind Kuath." What is that supposed to prove to me? That he is a worse rebounder than Kuath, a below average rebounder? I could go on and on.

I don't want posts to go unresponded to. There are alot of posters on this board that bring great insight. But i'm tired of trying to argue the sky is not orange. But, it is a message board, keep doing your thing! Have a wonderful day...Beat Kansas!
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Old 01-09-2021, 03:25 PM   #43
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And the only reason we didn't at least take Tech to OT is that Reaves' tying tip-in rimmed out, a shot he makes nine times out of 10. Funny how that works, right? Discounting big wins because they didn't fit some template you have doesn't fly. Mo was taking shots because he was red-hot; if he hadn't been, we can't know if someone else would have stepped up.

As for development, Doo certainly developed. Kuath has developed. Reaves has developed. Manek, though he's in a funk right now, has developed. Victor has developed in his short time in Norman. So has Hill. Are those last two finished products? No, but it's still early and they've deveoped.
Not to mention 10 missed free throws, but I guess Lon should have schemed those better.
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Old 01-10-2021, 10:58 AM   #44
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That's not the only reason. One of WV's best payers decided to leave the team a few days before the trip to Oklahoma. That was not the #9 team in the nation we played. That was the #9 team in the nation minus Tshiebwe.
Rip OU any chance you get very on brand for you
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Old 01-10-2021, 11:51 AM   #45
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That's not the only reason. One of WV's best payers decided to leave the team a few days before the trip to Oklahoma. That was not the #9 team in the nation we played. That was the #9 team in the nation minus Tshiebwe.
Yeah, we beat WVU by 4 points & they didn’t have Oscar. Yesterday, we lost @ KU by 4 & didn’t have Manek & Hill, so OBVIOUSLY, we’d have won had those 2 been available, right? RIGHT?

That’s what I thought.
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Old 01-10-2021, 12:02 PM   #46
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Yeah, we beat WVU by 4 points & they didn’t have Oscar. Yesterday, we lost @ KU by 4 & didn’t have Manek & Hill, so OBVIOUSLY, we’d have won had those 2 been available, right? RIGHT?

That’s what I thought.
Let me imagine waqman’s response:

“No because clearly Kansas was overlooking ou without Manek and hill. With them healthy, ku would been more motivated and still would win. Ou sux.”
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:22 PM   #47
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The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers don’t want $$
You forgot option #4..... OU hires a coach who knows how to recruit to Oklahoma. Of course we sign good players, because we are OU, but top to bottom roster management has been poor.

Case and point...

Class of 2019.

OU goes to Australia and signs Anyang Garang. In Big 12 play this year Anyang has the following stats: 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and 0 minutes. He can't get on the floor.

2.5 hours from Norman was Taz Sherman, at Collin County CC. OU did not offer this player and he went to WVU. In Big 12 play this year Taz has the following stats:

Texas: 17 points
OSU: 20 points
OU: 19 points
ISU: 10 points
KU: 2 points (14 minutes)

Averaging 14 a game against Big 12 competition.

If you scout well enough to identify a good player 2 hours from your campus, instead of signing someone who can't play from Australia, OU is a significantly better team RIGHT NOW.

1 major impact player is the difference between losing a close game to Texas Tech, a close game to Kansas, etc and losing. You got 0 from Garang. We may have gotten from 15 from Taz.

It's not defensible.

Look at this 2019 recruiting class:
Issanza - Can't get on the floor
Garang - Can't get on the floor
Merritt - Couldn't get on the floor and transferred
Harmon - Good player
Alondes - Good player
Victor - Good player

At some point the administration at OU will realize OU's recruiting problem.... I honestly can't believe more of you don't recognize it either. I know you guys would rather defend Lon than agree with me, but it's just so obvious. It's right there. I don't know why you can't see it. But eventually someone will, and OU will bring in someone who understands, and OU will become mor relevant in the Big 12 again.
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:24 PM   #48
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You forgot option #4..... OU hires a coach who knows how to recruit to Oklahoma. Of course we sign good players, because we are OU, but top to bottom roster management has been poor.

Case and point...

Class of 2019.

OU goes to Australia and signs Anyang Garang. In Big 12 play this year Anyang has the following stats: 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and 0 minutes. He can't get on the floor.

2.5 hours from Norman was Taz Sherman, at Collin County CC. OU did not offer this player and he went to WVU. In Big 12 play this year Taz has the following stats:

Texas: 17 points
OSU: 20 points
OU: 19 points
ISU: 10 points
KU: 2 points (14 minutes)

Averaging 14 a game against Big 12 competition.

If you scout well enough to identify a good player 2 hours from your campus, instead of signing someone who can't play from Australia, OU is a significantly better team RIGHT NOW.

1 major impact player is the difference between losing a close game to Texas Tech, a close game to Kansas, etc and losing. You got 0 from Garang. We may have gotten from 15 from Taz.

It's not defensible.

Look at this 2019 recruiting class:
Issanza - Can't get on the floor
Garang - Can't get on the floor
Merritt - Couldn't get on the floor and transferred
Harmon - Good player
Alondes - Good player
Victor - Good player

At some point the administration at OU will realize OU's recruiting problem.... I honestly can't believe more of you don't recognize it either. I know you guys would rather defend Lon than agree with me, but it's just so obvious. It's right there. I don't know why you can't see it. But eventually someone will, and OU will bring in someone who understands, and OU will become mor relevant in the Big 12 again.
Im not going back to check. But majority of guys you post are wash outs. Its easy to pick hindsight.
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:28 PM   #49
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Im not going back to check. But majority of guys you post are wash outs. Its easy to pick hindsight.
I don't recruit players for a living. That's what Lon makes millions of dollars to do. The entire crux of this argument is that LON should know.

It's inexcusable for LON and the staff. That's my position. Don't focus on who I found on the internet. Focus on who Lon didn't find. Focus on the fact that Lon went to Australia for a guy who can't get on the floor, Finland for a guy who couldn't get on the floor, etc when high-level players were in his damn backyard.

Don't make this about me. Don't distract. That's all I ask.

Even from the internet I picked Devonte Bandoo.... Taz Sherman... Daquon Jefferies... Mason Jones.... Alonzo Verge, and others that turned out to be really good players.... I could damn near make an argument that including the washouts I recruit players within 4 hours of campus better than Lon. And yea, some of them have been total trash... But guess what, lets not act like Lon doesn't sign guys like that too.

You hold me accountable for something you don't hold Lon accountable for. Think about how absurd that position is.
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:35 PM   #50
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I don't recruit players for a living. That's what Lon makes millions of dollars to do. The entire crux of this argument is that LON should know.

It's inexcusable for LON and the staff. That's my position. Don't focus on who I found on the internet. Focus on who Lon didn't find. Focus on the fact that Lon went to Australia for a guy who can't get on the floor, Finland for a guy who couldn't get on the floor, etc when high-level players were in his damn backyard.

Don't make this about me. Don't distract. That's all I ask.

Even from the internet I picked Devonte Bandoo.... Taz Sherman... Daquon Jefferies... Mason Jones.... Alonzo Verge, and others that turned out to be really good players.... I could damn near make an argument that including the washouts I recruit players within 4 hours of campus better than Lon. And yea, some of them have been total trash... But guess what, lets not act like Lon doesn't sign guys like that too.

You hold me accountable for something you don't hold Lon accountable for. Think about how absurd that position is.
Its not about you. You dont give him credit for the ones that do pan out. So all I do is ask the same.

Coach Cal and Coach K miss as well and they are paying for 5 stars.
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