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Old 01-24-2023, 10:57 PM   #251
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Our program probably has the least investment in the Big12. Every other program in the Big12 has passed us by. We are looking up at everyone.
Iím not saying you are wrong but do you have any proof to back it up? Besides the arena itself
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Old 01-24-2023, 11:42 PM   #252
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Lol ok

Go back and read the board. People were elated with the job moser did assembling a roster. People were panicking about the state of the roster when moser took over.

Thatís all Iím saying. He has done a great job recruiting. Heís done imo a great job in the portal.

Anyone criticizing his portal recruiting is looking at thing unfairly and with hindsight.
Who cares if fans were excited? What do most fans (including me) know? Almost nothing, really. We know what we're fed. What we knew about the Groves brothers was one game. What we knew about Goldwire is that he was reputed to be a great defender who wanted to showcase his offensive skills (which proved to be limited). What we knew about Bamasile was his stats, compiled in a significantly less talented conference.

It's entirely understandable if fans take the bait, so to speak, but a coach has to be held to a higher standard. Moser has brought in one top-notch transfer guy--Sherfield--and just now (it may just be a blip) he's not looking quite as good as we hoped. None of the others are/were standouts, however excited fans might have been when they agreed to come to OU.
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Old 01-25-2023, 12:13 AM   #253
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Who cares if fans were excited? What do most fans (including me) know? Almost nothing, really. We know what we're fed. What we knew about the Groves brothers was one game. What we knew about Goldwire is that he was reputed to be a great defender who wanted to showcase his offensive skills (which proved to be limited). What we knew about Bamasile was his stats, compiled in a significantly less talented conference.

It's entirely understandable if fans take the bait, so to speak, but a coach has to be held to a higher standard. Moser has brought in one top-notch transfer guy--Sherfield--and just now (it may just be a blip) he's not looking quite as good as we hoped. None of the others are/were standouts, however excited fans might have been when they agreed to come to OU.
Excellent post.

It strikes me that Moserís defenders have now said the following things tonight: he has done a great job in the portal; his high school recruiting is better than weíve seen in a decade; and he runs a great offense that is efficient and produces lots of open looks. So, in short, he brings in good players and coaches them well. I guess thatís why we are rolling through a second straight great season, then! Iíd hate to see what weíd look like or what our record would be if he wasnít such a great coach.
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Old 01-25-2023, 05:40 AM   #254
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Excellent post.

It strikes me that Moserís defenders have now said the following things tonight: he has done a great job in the portal; his high school recruiting is better than weíve seen in a decade; and he runs a great offense that is efficient and produces lots of open looks. So, in short, he brings in good players and coaches them well. I guess thatís why we are rolling through a second straight great season, then! Iíd hate to see what weíd look like or what our record would be if he wasnít such a great coach.
I'm not going to read every post here, but having a hard time believing anyone said Moser has done a great job in the portal. That has been his biggest weakness so far. Did anyone really say that or are you making things up again?
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Old 01-25-2023, 06:51 AM   #255
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Default Re: OU @ #11 TCU 7pm CST on ESPN+

Moser has nothing to hang his hat on in two years at OU to indicate things will be looking up.


Last year he went on a rant after a loss to TCU about how much more athletic they were. He got less athletic in the off seasonÖÖ
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:01 AM   #256
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I now see why Bam doesn't play. He hasn't seen the floor in a long while....yet with this chance, he fails to block out on the missed FT and gives up a layup.
Itís hard to get thrown in the game with limited playing time. He should have gotten him, Owen, and Schroeder more prepared.
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:06 AM   #257
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I'm not going to read every post here, but having a hard time believing anyone said Moser has done a great job in the portal. That has been his biggest weakness so far. Did anyone really say that or are you making things up again?
Why would I lie? Itís been the exact thing one of his biggest defenders has argued in a couple of his most recent posts. And show me somewhere where I have lied about anything before you accuse me of s$$t.
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:17 AM   #258
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Default Re: OU @ #11 TCU 7pm CST on ESPN+

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Moser has nothing to hang his hat on in two years at OU to indicate things will be looking up.


Last year he went on a rant after a loss to TCU about how much more athletic they were. He got less athletic in the off season……
umm except for recruiting .. and very very efficient offense
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:49 AM   #259
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Who cares if fans were excited? What do most fans (including me) know? Almost nothing, really. We know what we're fed. What we knew about the Groves brothers was one game. What we knew about Goldwire is that he was reputed to be a great defender who wanted to showcase his offensive skills (which proved to be limited). What we knew about Bamasile was his stats, compiled in a significantly less talented conference.

It's entirely understandable if fans take the bait, so to speak, but a coach has to be held to a higher standard. Moser has brought in one top-notch transfer guy--Sherfield--and just now (it may just be a blip) he's not looking quite as good as we hoped. None of the others are/were standouts, however excited fans might have been when they agreed to come to OU.
I understand but coach's can't see the future either. The Groves brothers were an outstanding get for OU. Go back and read the commentary from experts too. We don't know all that went into portal recruitments but everyone was very impressed with what Moser did building the roster. That's all I'm saying. To call him terrible in the portal is pretty Ludacris IMO. The portal is very hit or miss. It seems like there is a lot of revisionist history going on. and I get it, we are fans and he is the coach. But still, it is pretty ridiculous some of the takes around here
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:50 AM   #260
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I'm not going to read every post here, but having a hard time believing anyone said Moser has done a great job in the portal. That has been his biggest weakness so far. Did anyone really say that or are you making things up again?
I said it and it's true. Sometimes the players you get aren't what you hoped for. But with with the situation he was in, he did outstanding building a roster
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:55 AM   #261
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Yes, what an outstandingly constructed roster
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:24 AM   #262
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Lol ok

Go back and read the board. People were elated with the job moser did assembling a roster. People were panicking about the state of the roster when moser took over.

Thatís all Iím saying. He has done a great job recruiting. Heís done imo a great job in the portal.

Anyone criticizing his portal recruiting is looking at thing unfairly and with hindsight.

But but but ksu and isu!
Why should he not be measured against ISU and KSU? If he had done a "great" job in the portal and in recruiting - then is he terrible as a coach?

I want him to be the guy, but his offense, which allegedly creates great looks, has been a disaster in late game situations. If you are going to play his style your execution should be better at the end of games, rather than worse.

I just don't see a way forward with him at this point.

I'd agree, the Groves and GS / Joe Bam, looked like great portal additions, but they have been far less than what most of us anticipated. That on Porter or the players - I have no idea, but the real question is what will it take to fix it?

I just don't see how next year's team gets significantly better without a major influx of portal talent and given his track record of using / developing / incorporating portal players, I just don't see how this gets better even next year.

Again, help me believe.
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:32 AM   #263
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Why should he not be measured against ISU and KSU? If he had done a "great" job in the portal and in recruiting - then is he terrible as a coach?
B/c i believe ksu and isu are outliers. For every quick turnaround like them, there are 10 times it didn't work
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:32 AM   #264
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Yes, what an outstandingly constructed roster
sigh. Atleast try to comprehend what I was saying, it isn't difficult. Or not, I don't care.
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:37 AM   #265
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B/c i believe ksu and isu are outliers. For every quick turnaround like them, there are 10 times it didn't work
They may be outliers but it looks worse when KSU and ISU's turnarounds have been at warp speed and OU looks to be mired in quicksand with seemingly little hope.

I'm pretty optimistic but the program looks to have regressed in a big way. It's a tough league but OU has not taken advantage of their opportunities to win games.

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Old 01-25-2023, 08:44 AM   #266
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I'm pretty optimistic but the program looks to have regressed in a big way.
In a big way? I don't know about that. Its not like we were tearing it up since Buddy left. We are one superstar away from being the same team we've been for the past 6-7 years
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:46 AM   #267
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In a big way? I don't know about that. Its not like we were tearing it up since Buddy left. We are one superstar away from being the same team we've been for the past 6-7 years
This is spot on. It's been a slow decline to this point ever since the final four run
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Old 01-25-2023, 09:16 AM   #268
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This is spot on. It's been a slow decline to this point ever since the final four run
Well, letís see. Four straight tourney appearances, including two years where we won a game. Moser is hired, and itís soon to be consecutive years without a berth and this season is clearly heading to a below .500 record, likely well below.

Sure, you can say a couple years in our league are outliers in how fast they turned things around. That ignores the fact that Moser didnít need to turn things around. We werenít rebuilding like most teams are when they bring in a new coach. Iíd love to see the people who think he needs more time to show me examples of coaches who stepped into a job at a program that always made the tourney, wasnít beset by scandal or culture issues, came in and oversaw a significant downturn in their first two years, but ultimately proved to be the right man for the job. Some of you act as if he inherited the Nebraska program or something.
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Old 01-25-2023, 09:34 AM   #269
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That ignores the fact that Moser didn’t need to turn things around. We weren’t rebuilding like most teams are when they bring in a new coach.
I disagree with this (surprising I know). This roster was not in good shape when PM took the job. I think it was pretty clear we were on a downward trend the last 5 years of LK as well.

Players (key pieces) that left after LK's final year:Harmon, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Kuath (this alone would be a salty lineup and likely easily beat this year's team head to head)

Players that Returned (key pieces): J HIll, Harkless, Umoja

I think you are severally devaluing the pieces that left.
Yes, the 3 that returned were starters and good players. But you have to fill out the roster.

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I’d love to see the people who think he needs more time to show me examples of coaches who stepped into a job at a program that always made the tourney, wasn’t beset by scandal or culture issues, came in and oversaw a significant downturn in their first two years, but ultimately proved to be the right man for the job. Some of you act as if he inherited the Nebraska program or something.
I'd give him next year to show vast improvement. If he doesn't I'd be fine with moving on.

But if you put anyone of those players that left on last year's team or this year's team, we likely have the same record we did Lon's last 5 years in town
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Old 01-25-2023, 09:44 AM   #270
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I disagree with this. This roster was not in good shape when PM took the job. I think it was pretty clear we were on a downward trend the last 5 years of LK as well.

Players (key pieces) that left after LK's final year:Harmon, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Kuath (this alone would be a salty lineup and likely easily beat this year's team head to head)

Players that Returned (key pieces): J HIll, Harkless, Umoja

I think you are severally devaluing the pieces that left.
Yes, the 3 that returned were starters and good players. But you have to fill out the roster.



I'd give him next year to show vast improvement. If he doesn't I'd be fine with moving on.

But if you put anyone of those players that left on last year's team or this year's team, we likely have the same record we did Lon's last 5 years in town
We clearly were down relative to the FF squad, I will absolutely agree with you there. But I don't think we were trending down by the end. Things had more or less stabilized and we had settled into being a program that was going to make the field but not likely do a ton of damage. I wasn't thrilled with that, but the reason I didn't agree with people who wanted Joe C to push Lon out the door is because I felt we were more likely to regress than improve if that happened. And so far, unfortunately, that's what happened.

I agree that we lost some very good players when Lon left. But I think that's just the norm now in college basketball. As a coach, you have to be able to deal with that and replenish the roster at a high level, quickly. That holds true even if there isn't a coaching change, as Moser saw this year when he lost Mo and Harkless. I am still very happy Harkless left (check out his shooting numbers, yikes), but it just goes to show that there will always be roster turnover, and good coaches deal with that without missing a beat.

As much as you and I disagree, I think it's realistic to say that next year should be his final chance. I wouldn't be at all upset if he is gone after this season, but it would be reasonable to give him one more shot. I just worry that we may lose some of the few good pieces we have on the current roster, because I think there is a real chance we end up only winning a couple more games. If that happens, I expect lots of guys to look for greener pastures. We can't afford to lose Los, among others.
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Old 01-25-2023, 09:59 AM   #271
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I disagree with this (surprising I know). This roster was not in good shape when PM took the job. I think it was pretty clear we were on a downward trend the last 5 years of LK as well.

Players (key pieces) that left after LK's final year:Harmon, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Kuath (this alone would be a salty lineup and likely easily beat this year's team head to head)

Players that Returned (key pieces): J HIll, Harkless, Umoja

I think you are severally devaluing the pieces that left.
Yes, the 3 that returned were starters and good players. But you have to fill out the roster.



I'd give him next year to show vast improvement. If he doesn't I'd be fine with moving on.

But if you put anyone of those players that left on last year's team or this year's team, we likely have the same record we did Lon's last 5 years in town
You're countering your own point. You're saying the program was on a downturn but then you say any one of five players that were on the team but left could have made the difference if they'd stayed.

I'll admit it's a very tricky question, but when any coaching change occurs, I find it difficult to decide whether the incoming coach is in even some small part to blame when players depart. We expect a coach to be able to recruit talent from the high school ranks and (now) to find some strong players in the portal; is it unreasonable to also judge whether he was able to retain talent that was already on campus?

To his credit, Coach Moser convinced Noland and Cortes (two guys you didn't mention) to stick to their commitments and Hill, Harkless and Gibson, too (though only for a year for two of them), but does it reflect well on him that he couldn't convince even one of those four talented guys you mentioned (I don't count Reaves--he had his sights set on the NBA) to stay? I can argue both sides of the question and of course we don't know how those conversations went, but it is frustrating when a coaching hire doesn't inspire key players who are already on campus.
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:01 AM   #272
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Talking about efficient FG% and all that is great, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your offense is efficient. You have to look at turnovers, 2nd chance points, free throws, etc., so I like to look at points per possession. OU is ranked 155th in that regard because we shoot less shots than the opponents because of those things. OU averages 3 more turnovers than their opponents and gives up 2 more offensive rebounds per game, in conference they have 4 more turnovers and give up 3 more offensive rebounds per game.

I think Moser should be given until next year, but if he doesn't turn this season around and/or have a good season next year then I think he should be on his way out.
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:07 AM   #273
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Talking about efficient FG% and all that is great, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your offense is efficient. You have to look at turnovers, 2nd chance points, free throws, etc., so I like to look at points per possession. OU is ranked 155th in that regard because we shoot less shots than the opponents because of those things. OU averages 3 more turnovers than their opponents and gives up 2 more offensive rebounds per game, in conference they have 4 more turnovers and give up 3 more offensive rebounds per game.

I think Moser should be given until next year, but if he doesn't turn this season around and/or have a good season next year then I think he should be on his way out.
Thanks for posting these numbers because I have been too lazy to look them up. You are exactly right -- efficient FG% is helpful, but it's one piece of a much larger puzzle. To me, points per possession is the most important and best number in assessing an offense because it paints the full picture. You can shoot efficiently, but if you don't shot often because of turnovers and rebounding issues, that doesn't get you very far.
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:12 AM   #274
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You're countering your own point. You're saying the program was on a downturn but then you say any one of five players that were on the team but left could have made the difference if they'd stayed.

I'll admit it's a very tricky question, but when any coaching change occurs, I find it difficult to decide whether the incoming coach is in even some small part to blame when players depart. We expect a coach to be able to recruit talent from the high school ranks and (now) to find some strong players in the portal; is it unreasonable to also judge whether he was able to retain talent that was already on campus?

To his credit, Coach Moser convinced Noland and Cortes (two guys you didn't mention) to stick to their commitments and Hill, Harkless and Gibson, too (though only for a year for two of them), but does it reflect well on him that he couldn't convince even one of those four talented guys you mentioned (I don't count Reaves--he had his sights set on the NBA) to stay? I can argue both sides of the question and of course we don't know how those conversations went, but it is frustrating when a coaching hire doesn't inspire key players who are already on campus.
I understand but I truly think we are a gibson or reaves or maybe even harmon away from atleast 2 more wins and completely different look at the team. I don't necessarily disagree with you but the difference between status quo under LK and what we are this year is really one player. TO me that isn't evidence that the program is in trouble. I don't think we are far off from where we were. I don't think PM is doing any worse that LK would have with this roster.
LK had an excellent roster in his final year and won 16 games. I'd kill to have a roster of Harmon, Umoja, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Harkless, and JHill with PM. How that team didn't win the conference i have no idea.
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:19 AM   #275
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umm except for recruiting .. and very very efficient offense
Recruiting hasn't shown up on the court yet. So I'm not sure he's been recruiting well. Just because they have stars by their name doesn't mean it translates on the court. Efficiency has been streaky under Moser. Like we see it for a few games then it disappears for several games. We don't have the athletes to compete in the Big 12. Maybe a lot of this is Kruger's fault for not getting the athletes at the end of his tenure but the guys we've had coming in aren't athletic enough also.
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