Potential lineup changes??

OkieTC · 01-19-2023, 10:25 AM

Let’s face it. We will get out-athleted all season with the Grove brothers starting. We are just too slow footed with them both starting. Tanner would make a fine quality back-up center(I know, he is all we got), and isn’t bad when he his hitting 3’s. Jacob has improved a lot…but would still be the 8th or 9th guy for upper level Big12 teams. We need more athletes on the court. Is Benny S really not ready to play at this level. He looked so athletic playing European ball? And Bam looks so much quicker than what we are rolling out. I wonder at some point if we don’t start playing for the future and get these guys some minutes? I haven’t seen these guys practice, I just really wonder what is holding them back? Anyone who has seen them, please feel free to comment.

TINY · 01-19-2023, 10:27 AM

We really need Bamisile to take Jacob’s spot. Jacob could be first off the bench, instant offense. I have no idea what happened to Joe but need the light to turn on asap.

WichitaSooner · 01-19-2023, 10:39 AM

I don't think Benny is realistic. The time he missed in the offseason, and again a few weeks ago, makes it very hard for him to be ready to help in any way. I agree that he looked good in the two-minute runs he got against terrible teams, but it seems a stretch to think he could come in and help us against Big 12 players.

I can only assume that Bam hasn't shown any/enough signs of improvement to make Moser think his upside is worth the risk. He is the biggest disappointment of the season. He has athleticism that no one else on the team has, so if he would have worked out, it could have completely changed the dynamic of the team. I guess it's possible he could still figure things out, but it needs to happen fast.

Last night was the perfect chance to give Bam and Oweh a chance. The starters were playing like crap, we were getting blown out in the second half, the effort was lackluster ... that's the time to take a flyer and hope they can come in and spark you, and even if you lose the game, you at least give them some confidence. I still can't believe how little Moser did during the second half. Burn through your timeouts, pull every starter, light into the team ... just try something.

OkieTC · 01-19-2023, 10:47 AM

Totally agree Wichita. I know the coaches see these guys daily, but sometimes when things aren’t working, and you obviously won’t win, it would be nice to give some of these bench guys a little run. Sometimes guys just need a shot. Maybe we might catch lightning in a bottle with one of them? Maybe not. But we will never know without trying. I know right now that Moser is losing fans. This team is just soo hard to watch. I love Sooner hoops, but games like last night are hard to stomach. Especially when there isn’t much hope for improvement. Some of these guys are maxed out athletically and just CAN’T give us anymore than they already are. I appreciate the effort, but some changes have to happen.

SoonerBounce13 · 01-19-2023, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieTC

Totally agree Wichita. I know the coaches see these guys daily, but sometimes when things aren’t working, and you obviously won’t win, it would be nice to give some of these bench guys a little run. Sometimes guys just need a shot. Maybe we might catch lightning in a bottle with one of them? Maybe not. But we will never know without trying. I know right now that Moser is losing fans. This team is just soo hard to watch. I love Sooner hoops, but games like last night are hard to stomach. Especially when there isn’t much hope for improvement. Some of these guys are maxed out athletically and just CAN’T give us anymore than they already are. I appreciate the effort, but some changes have to happen.

Maybe they don't get more time because they aren't doing the things they need to do to earn more time.

I tend to trust coaches since they deal with these kids every day

OkieTC · 01-19-2023, 10:55 AM

I know what you are saying…but if the players not playing aren’t at least close to being as good as the Groves, them Moser failed in his recruiting evals last season.

SoonerBounce13 · 01-19-2023, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieTC

I know what you are saying…but if the players not playing aren’t at least close to being as good as the Groves, them Moser failed in his recruiting evals last season.

I was meaning more off the court stuff than their level of play.
Maybe they are blowing off classes. Maybe they aren't doing what they need in practice or the weight room. Maybe they haven't bought in.

There could be a number or reasons why younger players aren't playing that isn't related to talent level or capabilities on the court

thebigabd · 01-19-2023, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieTC

I know what you are saying…but if the players not playing aren’t at least close to being as good as the Groves, them Moser failed in his recruiting evals last season.

That's not possible... There is no way Moser missed players in his own backyard to go to Germany and get some dude who can't play. I just don't believe that is possible.

Seymore Cox · 01-19-2023, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

I was meaning more off the court stuff than their level of play.
Maybe they are blowing off classes. Maybe they aren't doing what they need in practice or the weight room. Maybe they haven't bought in.

There could be a number or reasons why younger players aren't playing that isn't related to talent level or capabilities on the court

Hell naw. Moser is too uptight. He doesn’t let his assistants talk in practice and he doesn’t play players he’s not comfortable with. He doesn’t do well with players making mistakes.

He should have played those guys more in the non conferences.

He’s too rigid and needs to be more flexible for his players to get better.

Seymore Cox · 01-19-2023, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TINY

We really need Bamisile to take Jacob’s spot. Jacob could be first off the bench, instant offense. I have no idea what happened to Joe but need the light to turn on asap.

Bamisile is the 2023 version of Marvin Johnson. I don’t think he can coach raw athletes. That’s what Bamisile is.

WichitaSooner · 01-19-2023, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymore Cox

Hell naw. Moser is too uptight. He doesn’t let his assistants talk in practice and he doesn’t play players he’s not comfortable with. He doesn’t do well with players making mistakes.

He should have played those guys more in the non conferences.

He’s too rigid and needs to be more flexible for his players to get better.

Yikes is that really the case, he doesn’t let his assistants speak in practice? I can’t imagine being a grown man and not being able to talk at your job. If that doesn’t change, I imagine the staff turnover will be an annual occurrence.

Stikboy · 01-19-2023, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymore Cox

Hell naw. Moser is too uptight. He doesn’t let his assistants talk in practice and he doesn’t play players he’s not comfortable with. He doesn’t do well with players making mistakes.

He should have played those guys more in the non conferences.

He’s too rigid and needs to be more flexible for his players to get better.

If he doesn't do well with players making mistakes, how do you explain the same guys he continues to run out there putting up astronomical turnover numbers and constantly getting in foul trouble? Moser's love affair with the Groves brothers is off the chain. I knew Tanner would start because like someone said, he's all we've got. But when Jacob was in the initial starting lineup, I was like, ok, he's starting all the experienced guys to begin the season. I was sure someone like Oweh, Bam, or Uzan(in his case he eventually did, Noland) would replace him by conference. Well, nope.

While every opponent we play continues to jump higher, blow by us, out quick us, beat us to balls, etc, Moser has hitched his wagon to the computer geeks. Sure, Tanner has rare games where he hits a couple of threes. He does rebound some when he's not in foul trouble. Jacob, all I can reason is that Moser likes the fact that he's 6-9 and thinks he can get a mismatch a few times a game offensively. But meanwhile with that size he gets next to no rebounds(did he get one rebound yesterday?), is horrible defensively and if he's not having a game like Texas where he's hitting 3s i'm not sure where is value outweighs his liabilities. But, Porter keeps going on and on about those two and how competitive they are and how much they want to win and how much they've improved blah blah blah. Did you know Tanner is 242 now? Awesome!

Porter did sign two highly rated guys, again. Kudos! Guards. I guess the plan is to trust that and hope the talent and athleticism continues to improve? But, besides Uzan, the way he's not playing freshmen he better get it going in the portal or next year could be worse. Does Moser have the ability to recruit athleticism in any player above 6-5? While the two HS guys were good recruiting coups, I couldn't believe the number of portal guys NAIA Allstar posted about in the portal thread that we struck out on. Even though he's been better than everyone thought, it's telling that a walkon is our backup big. I know Porter had the fat porn stache big at Loyola. Has he ever recruited and/or featured an athletic, physical big? We get our lunch eaten inside in every Big 12 game. Our finishing is horrible. This is OU, not Maryland Eastern Shore for crying out loud..

Seymore Cox · 01-19-2023, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stikboy

If he doesn't do well with players making mistakes, how do you explain the same guys he continues to run out there putting up astronomical turnover numbers and constantly getting in foul trouble? Moser's love affair with the Groves brothers is off the chain. I knew Tanner would start because like someone said, he's all we've got. But when Jacob was in the initial starting lineup, I was like, ok, he's starting all the experienced guys to begin the season. I was sure someone like Oweh, Bam, or Uzan(in his case he eventually did, Noland) would replace him by conference. Well, nope.

While every opponent we play continues to jump higher, blow by us, out quick us, beat us to balls, etc, Moser has hitched his wagon to the computer geeks. Sure, Tanner has rare games where he hits a couple of threes. He does rebound some when he's not in foul trouble. Jacob, all I can reason is that Moser likes the fact that he's 6-9 and thinks he can get a mismatch a few times a game offensively. But meanwhile with that size he gets next to no rebounds(did he get one rebound yesterday?), is horrible defensively and if he's not having a game like Texas where he's hitting 3s i'm not sure where is value outweighs his liabilities. But, Porter keeps going on and on about those two and how competitive they are and how much they want to win and how much they've improved blah blah blah. Did you know Tanner is 242 now? Awesome!

Porter did sign two highly rated guys, again. Kudos! Guards. I guess the plan is to trust that and hope the talent and athleticism continues to improve? But, besides Uzan, the way he's not playing freshmen he better get it going in the portal or next year could be worse. Does Moser have the ability to recruit athleticism in any player above 6-5? While the two HS guys were good recruiting coups, I couldn't believe the number of portal guys NAIA Allstar posted about in the portal thread that we struck out on. Even though he's been better than everyone thought, it's telling that a walkon is our backup big. I know Porter had the fat porn stache big at Loyola. Has he ever recruited and/or featured an athletic, physical big? We get our lunch eaten inside in every Big 12 game. Our finishing is horrible. This is OU, not Maryland Eastern Shore for crying out loud..

I agree

WichitaSooner · 01-19-2023, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stikboy

If he doesn't do well with players making mistakes, how do you explain the same guys he continues to run out there putting up astronomical turnover numbers and constantly getting in foul trouble? Moser's love affair with the Groves brothers is off the chain. I knew Tanner would start because like someone said, he's all we've got. But when Jacob was in the initial starting lineup, I was like, ok, he's starting all the experienced guys to begin the season. I was sure someone like Oweh, Bam, or Uzan(in his case he eventually did, Noland) would replace him by conference. Well, nope.

While every opponent we play continues to jump higher, blow by us, out quick us, beat us to balls, etc, Moser has hitched his wagon to the computer geeks. Sure, Tanner has rare games where he hits a couple of threes. He does rebound some when he's not in foul trouble. Jacob, all I can reason is that Moser likes the fact that he's 6-9 and thinks he can get a mismatch a few times a game offensively. But meanwhile with that size he gets next to no rebounds(did he get one rebound yesterday?), is horrible defensively and if he's not having a game like Texas where he's hitting 3s i'm not sure where is value outweighs his liabilities. But, Porter keeps going on and on about those two and how competitive they are and how much they want to win and how much they've improved blah blah blah. Did you know Tanner is 242 now? Awesome!

Porter did sign two highly rated guys, again. Kudos! Guards. I guess the plan is to trust that and hope the talent and athleticism continues to improve? But, besides Uzan, the way he's not playing freshmen he better get it going in the portal or next year could be worse. Does Moser have the ability to recruit athleticism in any player above 6-5? While the two HS guys were good recruiting coups, I couldn't believe the number of portal guys NAIA Allstar posted about in the portal thread that we struck out on. Even though he's been better than everyone thought, it's telling that a walkon is our backup big. I know Porter had the fat porn stache big at Loyola. Has he ever recruited and/or featured an athletic, physical big? We get our lunch eaten inside in every Big 12 game. Our finishing is horrible. This is OU, not Maryland Eastern Shore for crying out loud..

This times a million. It’s a minor point in this post, but the loose ball point is something that drives me crazy, but as you say, it’s not effort, it’s the fact our opponents are longer and quicker and jump higher. Even if we have better position, we probably only come up with about 30 percent of 50/50 balls.

Tanner is just a frustrating player to watch. He does rebound well and he plays hard, but his basketball IQ isn’t where you’d expect from a fifth year player. And his shooting has dropped off so much. He doesn’t have a low post game, and if he can’t make more than 25 percent from distance, opposing bigs don’t have to worry much about him outside, so his offensive value becomes next to nothing.

SoonerBounce13 · 01-19-2023, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymore Cox

Hell naw. Moser is too uptight. He doesn’t let his assistants talk in practice and he doesn’t play players he’s not comfortable with. He doesn’t do well with players making mistakes.

He should have played those guys more in the non conferences.

He’s too rigid and needs to be more flexible for his players to get better.

Based on what?

skyvue · 01-19-2023, 11:23 PM

We saw nothing from Bamasile that made me think he's any kind of answer, and if he'd shown any progress at all in practice, I'm sure he'd be getting minutes.

38red · 01-20-2023, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyvue

We saw nothing from Bamasile that made me think he's any kind of answer, and if he'd shown any progress at all in practice, I'm sure he'd be getting minutes.

We saw nothing from CJ that made me thing he's any kind of answer, he's just a guy. I'm concerned with Moser's ability to adapt to his players available, we won't be competing for the top half of the big12 with the Grove Bro's and CJ playing starter minutes.

In pre-season all he talked about with Bamasile was how good he was in the open court but he doesn't allow his teams to attack off rebounds consistently. I'll be concerned with keeping Uzan, Oweh & Cooper type players. Uzan because he's a stud now, the others because they will need time to fit into Moser's system. Will they have the patience for this, cause it doesn't look like Moser will have to patience to work them in.

Note: I do like Moser but it feels to rigid and it's hard to recruit athletes when you don't let them be athletes!

Abe · 01-20-2023, 08:11 AM

We must be going to different practices. The ones I have been to last year and this year do not support your comments.

WichitaSooner · 01-20-2023, 08:18 AM

I do worry about Uzan. He will have plenty of programs interested if he decides he doesn’t want to stick around in a system designed around walking it up the floor and playing ugly, low scoring games.

My take on Bam and Oweh: look for opportunities to give them a few minutes in certain matchups. Wednesday was the perfect chance given how poorly the regulars played and how easily their guards were getting by us.

Fun fact: before we played KU, their backup big, Clemence, had scored two points this season. That wasn’t a per game average, it was his season total. Self remembered his success against us last year and obviously felt he would give Tanner trouble since he can step out and stretch the floor. Clemence came through with 10 huge points and made a couple big threes in the first half. There will be other games where he doesn’t even step on the court. Moser needs to find spots like that for our guys. If they play well, they earn more minutes. If they don’t, at least you’ve tried something else.

TINY · 01-20-2023, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe

We must be going to different practices. The ones I have been to last year and this year do not support your comments.

It does fit the anti-Moser narrative, though…

61sooner · 01-20-2023, 09:16 AM

Perhaps Moser is closer to a small program type coach then one at a high profile school. He may be overwhelmed. coaching in the Big 12. He isn't a Kelvin type of grinder more like old timer Doyle Parrack who was a bust 60 years ago trying to be a Hank Iba disciple.

BoulderSooner · 01-20-2023, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 61sooner

Perhaps Moser is closer to a small program type coach then one at a high profile school. He may be overwhelmed. coaching in the Big 12. He isn't a Kelvin type of grinder more like old timer Doyle Parrack who was a bust 60 years ago trying to be a Hank Iba disciple.

he is 100% a kelvin type of grinder ..

AdaSooner · 01-20-2023, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

he is 100% a kelvin type of grinder ..

….before KS spent time as an assistant in the NBA, maybe.

It would be an insult to Kelvin to compare Moser to him now!

thebigabd · 01-20-2023, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdaSooner

….before KS spent time as an assistant in the NBA, maybe.

It would be an insult to Kelvin to compare Moser to him now!

For sure.

BoulderSooner · 01-20-2023, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdaSooner

….before KS spent time as an assistant in the NBA, maybe.

It would be an insult to Kelvin to compare Moser to him now!

i don't know about an insult .. but yeah clearly i was talking about the kelvin that was the OU coach in a much much much weaker big 12