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Old 01-14-2023, 01:28 PM   #1
WichitaSooner
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Default One possession that is all too typical

We are up 66-61. Grant missed two shots but we get two boards. After the second one, Moser immediately signaled for them to pull it back out. The possession ended in a shot clock violation. Listen to just about any coach or broadcaster and they all note that one of the best times to get a clean look is when you get an offensive rebound off a missed perimeter shot. The defense is scrambling and itís hard for them to find their man and match up. But late in games, Moser chooses the ultra conservative approach basically every time.

Go back and watch the KU game. The single biggest basket was when we were up 8 with a little over 4 to play. Gradey missed a layup, KU got a rebound. Amazingly, Gradey they missed a three. KU got another rebound. Once they got the second rebound, they moved the ball quickly, we didnít match up, and Wilson drained a three.

Iím happy we won today. Needed it badly. But those little things are why we lose far more close games than we win. If West Virginia had made their free throws, there is a strong likelihood that this would have been another blown lead in the last few minutes.
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Old 01-14-2023, 01:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: One possession that is all too typical

Lol. If we make ours we win east as well. Works both ways
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Old 01-14-2023, 01:36 PM   #3
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Lol. If we make ours we win east as well. Works both ways
You completely miss the point. KU was aggressive and attacked quickly off the second rebound. We pulled the ball out at Moserís direction and didnít even get a third shot. I donít care about the make or miss, I care that he continues to coach not to lose rather than going for the jugular.
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Old 01-14-2023, 01:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: One possession that is all too typical

Good grief. We haven't had a winning conference record since 2016. I've gotten to the point where I'm not going to complain after a conference WIN.
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Old 01-14-2023, 01:38 PM   #5
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Lol. If we make ours we win east as well. Works both ways
And we shot a far higher percentage from the line than they did and were very good other than Godwin. Heck, we ended up very close to our season percentage from the line and made 7-8 in the last minute. We definitely wouldnít have won going away but for our FTs.
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Old 01-14-2023, 01:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: One possession that is all too typical

We put up a quick, open shot off the 1st offensive rebound. It made sense to me to slow it down after the 2nd offensive board.

Moser must have stolen your girlfriend.
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Old 01-14-2023, 01:59 PM   #7
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We put up a quick, open shot off the 1st offensive rebound. It made sense to me to slow it down after the 2nd offensive board.

Moser must have stolen your girlfriend.
Tiny, Boulder Ö when you watch our offense in the last few minutes, can you honestly tell me thatís quality coaching? Look at our possessions and give an honest assessment. Do you think stationary dribbling 30 feet from the basket is conducive to scoring and increasing a lead? Not only does the ball never get inside the three point line, on some possessions, we donít even have a player inside it. You donít have to be a coach to be able to recognize that our offense at the end of games is completely different than it is for the first 35 minutes. Instead of making things personal, try explaining how you think what we are doing is working and why you think itís the right way to play.
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Old 01-14-2023, 02:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: One possession that is all too typical

I agree that OU’s late game play (coaching and execution) needs to improve. I don’t love the iso late in the game with the current team. It works well when you have an elite guard who can take their man off the bounce and score at will.

They need to reduce their TOs, as well.
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Old 01-14-2023, 02:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: One possession that is all too typical

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I agree that OUís late game play (coaching and execution) needs to improve. I donít love the iso late in the game with the current team. It works well when you have an elite guard who can take their man off the bounce and score at will.

They need to reduce their TOs, as well.


I remember KS using this strategy very well, late in games. It helped that the defense was lock down in those situations as well. I'm still hopeful we figure it out this year. Our young guards look like they could become closers....
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Old 01-14-2023, 02:22 PM   #10
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And we shot a far higher percentage from the line than they did and were very good other than Godwin. Heck, we ended up very close to our season percentage from the line and made 7-8 in the last minute. We definitely wouldnít have won going away but for our FTs.
And they missed 55 the first 5 games of the big 12 szn.

Worked out the way % say.
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Old 01-14-2023, 02:23 PM   #11
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Tiny, Boulder Ö when you watch our offense in the last few minutes, can you honestly tell me thatís quality coaching? Look at our possessions and give an honest assessment. Do you think stationary dribbling 30 feet from the basket is conducive to scoring and increasing a lead? Not only does the ball never get inside the three point line, on some possessions, we donít even have a player inside it. You donít have to be a coach to be able to recognize that our offense at the end of games is completely different than it is for the first 35 minutes. Instead of making things personal, try explaining how you think what we are doing is working and why you think itís the right way to play.
which position did we stand and dribble for 30 secs?

i have rewatched the last 4 min twice now

WVU changed their D completely ou ran motion and screens and didn't just stand around
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Old 01-14-2023, 02:24 PM   #12
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which position did we stand and dribble for 30 secs?

i have rewatched the last 4 min twice now

WVU changed their D completely ou ran motion and screens and didn't just stand around
when the d is totally different then the first 35 min the O has to be different as well
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Old 01-14-2023, 02:24 PM   #13
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I agree that OUís late game play (coaching and execution) needs to improve. I donít love the iso late in the game with the current team. It works well when you have an elite guard who can take their man off the bounce and score at will.

They need to reduce their TOs, as well.
I appreciate the response. And contrary to how it probably comes across, I am not a Moser hater. I supported the hire and think he could still pay off. Iím just very concerned with the late-game coaching, and it hasnít seemed like he has made any changes to his strategy even though itís obvious that the current approach isnít working. I wish he would trust Los and Grant to make the right plays and reads late in games.
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Old 01-14-2023, 02:33 PM   #14
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which position did we stand and dribble for 30 secs?

i have rewatched the last 4 min twice now

WVU changed their D completely ou ran motion and screens and didn't just stand around
Watch the possession that starts with 2:30 and the next possession. We threw a couple passes that didnít have any chance of accomplishing anything, but otherwise had our guards dribble the clock away. The ball didnít move at all side to side or really force the defense to do much.

And if they changed their defense, itís up to us to know how to adjust rather than let them force us into horrible offense. Go online and look at some of the breakdowns that people have been done showing how Self did a great job the last five minutes of Tuesdayís game. He figured out a way to get wide open shots for guys since OU was so focused on not letting Gradey get any looks. But seeing as how this happens every game for us, I think it is an OU issue rather than a matter of what West Virginia was doing on defense.
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Old 01-14-2023, 04:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: One possession that is all too typical

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I appreciate the response. And contrary to how it probably comes across, I am not a Moser hater. I supported the hire and think he could still pay off. I’m just very concerned with the late-game coaching, and it hasn’t seemed like he has made any changes to his strategy even though it’s obvious that the current approach isn’t working. I wish he would trust Los and Grant to make the right plays and reads late in games.
You are wasting your breath with a few posters on here. Even though we won (which we are all grateful for), the same things keep rearing their ugly head at the end of games. But since we won, I guess we are not supposed to notice that things don't appear to be getting addressed.
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Old 01-16-2023, 09:06 AM   #16
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Iím happy we won today.
Are you sure?
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Old 01-16-2023, 09:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: One possession that is all too typical

The same people complaining about our late game offense would be complaining if we ran tempo and missed early shots when having a 5 point lead late in the game.

I have no issues with taking the air out of the ball. Just need to execute better
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Old 01-16-2023, 11:46 AM   #18
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The same people complaining about our late game offense would be complaining if we ran tempo and missed early shots when having a 5 point lead late in the game.

I have no issues with taking the air out of the ball. Just need to execute better
You hit the nail squarely on the head, SB13. No matter if we win or lose, we'll continue to have a couple of posters (more, actually) who are better than the OU coaches at plotting late game strategy Ė and quick to ridicule anyone whose opinion differs.
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Old 01-16-2023, 11:57 AM   #19
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The same people complaining about our late game offense would be complaining if we ran tempo and missed early shots when having a 5 point lead late in the game.

I have no issues with taking the air out of the ball. Just need to execute better
Glad you know what I think and can read minds. Youíre clueless if you think this. Also, last I checked there are more than two options. You donít have to take the air out of the ball or ďrun tempo.Ē Another crazy option would be, gee, actually running offense than includes ball movement, player movement, screening, and good, hard cuts.

As far as executing, there is nothing to execute in the sets Moser is using late in games. Itís dribble the clock away, then force a tough shot in the last few seconds and hope it goes in. Go watch the end of every close Kansas game and see how many times Self just has four guys stand around while one guy dribbles. They always run sets that have multiple options. Take away Gradey, and they exploit it like they did against us. Guard him in a traditional way, and they run him off screens. Commit too much to stopping the guards, and they will get Adams an easy basket.
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Old 01-16-2023, 12:47 PM   #20
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Glad you know what I think and can read minds. Youíre clueless if you think this. Also, last I checked there are more than two options. You donít have to take the air out of the ball or ďrun tempo.Ē Another crazy option would be, gee, actually running offense than includes ball movement, player movement, screening, and good, hard cuts.

As far as executing, there is nothing to execute in the sets Moser is using late in games. Itís dribble the clock away, then force a tough shot in the last few seconds and hope it goes in. Go watch the end of every close Kansas game and see how many times Self just has four guys stand around while one guy dribbles. They always run sets that have multiple options. Take away Gradey, and they exploit it like they did against us. Guard him in a traditional way, and they run him off screens. Commit too much to stopping the guards, and they will get Adams an easy basket.
i never named names....but since you mentioned it....

Without a doubt, if we ran a play 5 seconds into the shot clock while being up 5+ points with 3-5 minutes left and it didn't have a positive result, you would be here complaining about not being smart and running time off the clock. I have absolutely zero doubt about it
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Old 01-16-2023, 12:51 PM   #21
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Just saw this stat tweeted: we have been outscored 69-46 in the last five minutes of regulation in our conference games, so an average of 4.6 per game. For people who think we are close to being 4-1 or 3-2, Iíd say we are actually fortunate not to be 0-5, since we were a disaster late even in the Tech and West Virginia games. In a league where pretty much every game is close, and where you know we wonít blow anyone out, thatís beyond concerning. So yeah, call me a hater or whatever, but anyone who wonít acknowledge the issue has their head in the sand. And since Moser said in October that his main focus coming into the season was figuring out how to play better down the stretch, the fact we are as bad, if not worse than last year, is a big issue. He has to adjust his approach or else itís the definition of insanity.

Also I went back and looked at game logs and saw that we led in the last five minutes of every loss this season except against Arky.
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Old 01-16-2023, 12:53 PM   #22
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i never named names....but since you mentioned it....

Without a doubt, if we ran a play 5 seconds into the shot clock while being up 5+ points with 3-5 minutes left and it didn't have a positive result, you would be here complaining about not being smart and running time off the clock. I have absolutely zero doubt about it
Ok. Tell Dione Warwick and the rest of the psychic friends hi for me.
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Old 01-16-2023, 01:03 PM   #23
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i never named names....but since you mentioned it....

Without a doubt, if we ran a play 5 seconds into the shot clock while being up 5+ points with 3-5 minutes left and it didn't have a positive result, you would be here complaining about not being smart and running time off the clock. I have absolutely zero doubt about it
We had two possessions I was fine with late in Lawrence. We put the ball in Grantís hands on the right side and he drove and got a layup he usually makes. Iíll take that any time. I also didnít mind the play where we got it to Hill on the block. He was a little slow to make his move, but I didnít mind trying that because he had scored some tough buckets in the second half. If the coach puts players in good positions and they simply miss a shot, you live with it.
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Old 01-16-2023, 03:16 PM   #24
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We are up 66-61. Grant missed two shots but we get two boards. After the second one, Moser immediately signaled for them to pull it back out. The possession ended in a shot clock violation. Listen to just about any coach or broadcaster and they all note that one of the best times to get a clean look is when you get an offensive rebound off a missed perimeter shot. The defense is scrambling and itís hard for them to find their man and match up. But late in games, Moser chooses the ultra conservative approach basically every time.

Go back and watch the KU game. The single biggest basket was when we were up 8 with a little over 4 to play. Gradey missed a layup, KU got a rebound. Amazingly, Gradey they missed a three. KU got another rebound. Once they got the second rebound, they moved the ball quickly, we didnít match up, and Wilson drained a three.

Iím happy we won today. Needed it badly. But those little things are why we lose far more close games than we win. If West Virginia had made their free throws, there is a strong likelihood that this would have been another blown lead in the last few minutes.
I went back and watched that play. In most cases, I'd agree with you, but in this case you're wrong. At the time Grant gets the second offensive rebound, Jacob and Uzan are already back on defense, and Tanner is at half court. Inside the 3 point line it's Grant and Jalen and ALL 5 WVU players. The defense wasn't scrambling. Grant could have taken a long 2, but it would have been a poor shot from a shot selection standpoint and one they can get at anytime.
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Old 01-16-2023, 05:47 PM   #25
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I went back and watched that play. In most cases, I'd agree with you, but in this case you're wrong. At the time Grant gets the second offensive rebound, Jacob and Uzan are already back on defense, and Tanner is at half court. Inside the 3 point line it's Grant and Jalen and ALL 5 WVU players. The defense wasn't scrambling. Grant could have taken a long 2, but it would have been a poor shot from a shot selection standpoint and one they can get at anytime.
Good points, and good post. Definitely looks like I was wrong about that specific possession.
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