ouhoops.com
forums roster schedule stats rankings NET bracketology big xII standings recruiting ouhoopstv

Go Back   OUHoops > Main Category > The Wayman Tisdale Men's Hoops Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2023, 11:23 AM   #26
SoonerBounce13
National Champion
 
SoonerBounce13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,453
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
i don't know about an insult .. but yeah clearly i was talking about the kelvin that was the OU coach in a much much much weaker big 12
I donít know about that. The big 12 was really tough back then too. Not nearly as deep but osu, Texas, Kansas, isu and OU were all really good
__________________
"But I know some of the qualities of the coach I would pick. Somebody that doesn't mind working, a coach that's going to bring a fresh mindset and help us all get better as basketball players as well as men. A coach that has all our best interests at heart."

-Romero Osby
SoonerBounce13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 11:29 AM   #27
thebigabd
National Champion
 
thebigabd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,354
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
I donít know about that. The big 12 was really tough back then too. Not nearly as deep but osu, Texas, Kansas, isu and OU were all really good
Any talk of the "Big 12 wasn't as good" is pure hogwash and is just making excuses for Capel, Kruger, and now Moser unable to get the program at or above mediocre.
__________________
Quannas White - The Future
thebigabd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 11:55 AM   #28
WichitaSooner
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

This is always such a silly debate. Two things can be true: Kelvin Sampson was and still is a fantastic coach, probably one of the two or three best in the country, AND the Big 12 over the past few years is unquestionably better than at any previous time. Acknowledging the latter reality doesn't diminish Kelvin. I'm quite sure that when Houston joins the league in a few months, he will be quick to say that the league is better than it's ever been.
WichitaSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 12:01 PM   #29
Sooner Season
Walk-on
 
Sooner Season's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 251
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

if the contention is that the Big 12 is better, then the rest of the league got better and we didn't? That doesn't make me feel any better.
Sooner Season is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 01:32 PM   #30
Seymore Cox
National Champion
 
Seymore Cox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,689
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
Any talk of the "Big 12 wasn't as good" is pure hogwash and is just making excuses for Capel, Kruger, and now Moser unable to get the program at or above mediocre.
Carol went to an Elite 8, Kruger to a final four. I want that mediocracy.
__________________
:hardrick
Seymore Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 02:10 PM   #31
BoulderSooner
Owner/Operator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OKlahoma City
Posts: 8,730
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
Any talk of the "Big 12 wasn't as good" is pure hogwash and is just making excuses for Capel, Kruger, and now Moser unable to get the program at or above mediocre.
it is a fact .. and OU had an easier schedule as has been proven and shown out many many times ..
BoulderSooner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 02:10 PM   #32
BoulderSooner
Owner/Operator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OKlahoma City
Posts: 8,730
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaSooner View Post
This is always such a silly debate. Two things can be true: Kelvin Sampson was and still is a fantastic coach, probably one of the two or three best in the country, AND the Big 12 over the past few years is unquestionably better than at any previous time. Acknowledging the latter reality doesn't diminish Kelvin. I'm quite sure that when Houston joins the league in a few months, he will be quick to say that the league is better than it's ever been.
yep all of this ..
BoulderSooner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 02:11 PM   #33
BoulderSooner
Owner/Operator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OKlahoma City
Posts: 8,730
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
I donít know about that. The big 12 was really tough back then too. Not nearly as deep but osu, Texas, Kansas, isu and OU were all really good
the big 12 current run makes it basically the best conf in the modern era
BoulderSooner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 02:27 PM   #34
AdaSooner
Admin Emeritus
 
AdaSooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,982
Angry Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaSooner View Post
This times a million. It’s a minor point in this post, but the loose ball point is something that drives me crazy, but as you say, it’s not effort, it’s the fact our opponents are longer and quicker and jump higher. Even if we have better position, we probably only come up with about 30 percent of 50/50 balls.

Tanner is just a frustrating player to watch. He does rebound well and he plays hard, but his basketball IQ isn’t where you’d expect from a fifth year player. And his shooting has dropped off so much. He doesn’t have a low post game, and if he can’t make more than 25 percent from distance, opposing bigs don’t have to worry much about him outside, so his offensive value becomes next to nothing.


I couldn’t agree more!

I think Tanner is a major part of our problem on offense and especially on defense. In what basketball universe is a player who shoots 28% from three thought to be a “good shooter?” Our opponents are thrilled to see him set up behind the arc and leave rebounding a miss to a light in the britches PF and an undersized Jalen Hill who at 6’ 6” is doing his best to get a rare offensive rebound.

I can’t be the only one who has noticed how their players just back off and dare Tanner to shoot. And, why not? There is a 72% chance he’ll miss and the odds of getting the rebound are in their favor. Besides, he’s our best chance to put back a miss, if he’s inside where he should be instead of being set up on the perimeter pretending to be a “good shooter.”

The silly fouls and the questionable decisions he makes are another matter entirely. Drives me crazy, but I’m exhausted just thinking about how much he could help the team if he would use his size as an advantage down low!
AdaSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 02:52 PM   #35
SoonerBounce13
National Champion
 
SoonerBounce13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,453
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
the big 12 current run makes it basically the best conf in the modern era
Top to bottom maybe

But Kansas was Kansas. Texas was better. Ou was better. Isu was better. Missouri was good. Osu was way better.

Tech was probably better. Baylor was worse
__________________
"But I know some of the qualities of the coach I would pick. Somebody that doesn't mind working, a coach that's going to bring a fresh mindset and help us all get better as basketball players as well as men. A coach that has all our best interests at heart."

-Romero Osby
SoonerBounce13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 02:53 PM   #36
SoonerBounce13
National Champion
 
SoonerBounce13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,453
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdaSooner View Post
[/b]
I couldnít agree more!

I think Tanner is a major part of our problem on offense and especially on defense. In what basketball universe is a player who shoots 28% from three thought to be a ďgood shooter?Ē Our opponents are thrilled to see him set up behind the arc and leave rebounding a miss to a light in the britches PF and an undersized Jalen Hill who at 6í 6Ē is doing his best to get a rare offensive rebound.

I canít be the only one who has noticed how their players just back off and dare Tanner to shoot. And, why not? There is a 72% chance heíll miss and the odds of getting the rebound are in their favor. Besides, heís our best chance to put back a miss, if heís inside where he should be instead of being set up on the perimeter pretending to be a ďgood shooter.Ē

The silly fouls and the questionable decisions he makes are another matter entirely. Drives me crazy, but Iím exhausted just thinking about how much he could help the team if he would use his size as an advantage down low!
I will say that this is the only year where tanner has shot close to this bad. He was 38% last year. Somethingís off
__________________
"But I know some of the qualities of the coach I would pick. Somebody that doesn't mind working, a coach that's going to bring a fresh mindset and help us all get better as basketball players as well as men. A coach that has all our best interests at heart."

-Romero Osby
SoonerBounce13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 03:11 PM   #37
WichitaSooner
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
Top to bottom maybe

But Kansas was Kansas. Texas was better. Ou was better. Isu was better. Missouri was good. Osu was way better.

Tech was probably better. Baylor was worse
I'd agree on KU. Texas was probably comparable to now. ISU made the tourney 5 times and finished under .500 three times while Kelvin was at OU. OSU was definitely better. Tech was not even close to being better. They made the tourney 3 times while Kelvin was here, and finished under .500 five times. Baylor is a million times better. And you are leaving out Colorado and Nebraska and KSU and A&M. It is laughable to say the current league is "maybe" better top to bottom. And it makes no sense why anyone would even try to make such an argument. No one who coached, played, broadcast, or worked for the conference in any capacity would do so. It was a really good league back then. It's historically great now.
WichitaSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 03:20 PM   #38
SoonerBounce13
National Champion
 
SoonerBounce13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,453
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaSooner View Post
I'd agree on KU. Texas was probably comparable to now. ISU made the tourney 5 times and finished under .500 three times while Kelvin was at OU. OSU was definitely better. Tech was not even close to being better. They made the tourney 3 times while Kelvin was here, and finished under .500 five times. Baylor is a million times better. And you are leaving out Colorado and Nebraska and KSU and A&M. It is laughable to say the current league is "maybe" better top to bottom. And it makes no sense why anyone would even try to make such an argument. No one who coached, played, broadcast, or worked for the conference in any capacity would do so. It was a really good league back then. It's historically great now.
Ok lol
__________________
"But I know some of the qualities of the coach I would pick. Somebody that doesn't mind working, a coach that's going to bring a fresh mindset and help us all get better as basketball players as well as men. A coach that has all our best interests at heart."

-Romero Osby
SoonerBounce13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 03:25 PM   #39
WichitaSooner
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
Ok lol
Damn, good one. You definitely refuted the facts in my post with your amazing and witty retort. Keep making it personal.
WichitaSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 03:27 PM   #40
SoonerBounce13
National Champion
 
SoonerBounce13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,453
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaSooner View Post
Damn, good one. You definitely refuted the facts in my post with your amazing and witty retort. Keep making it personal.
I’m just done with you. You seem to be a miserable human being and not worth my time. You were the one that said my opinion was laughable.
__________________
"But I know some of the qualities of the coach I would pick. Somebody that doesn't mind working, a coach that's going to bring a fresh mindset and help us all get better as basketball players as well as men. A coach that has all our best interests at heart."

-Romero Osby
SoonerBounce13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 04:26 PM   #41
WaymanFan
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,442
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

I hope no one is actually comparing the Big XII now to what it was 20-25 years ago. Back then, OU got to basically start out 4-0 against Texas A&M and Baylor. Throw in Nebraska, Kansas State, Colorado (who we played once a year), and Texas Tech, and most years we're looking at 7-2 or 8-1. That means we could go 1-2 against Kansas, Iowa State and Missouri (worst case), 2-2 against Texas and OSU (very seldom did worse), and finish 10-6 / 11-5 without breaking a sweat.
WaymanFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 04:29 PM   #42
TINY
All-American
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,930
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaSooner View Post
I'd agree on KU. Texas was probably comparable to now. ISU made the tourney 5 times and finished under .500 three times while Kelvin was at OU. OSU was definitely better. Tech was not even close to being better. They made the tourney 3 times while Kelvin was here, and finished under .500 five times. Baylor is a million times better. And you are leaving out Colorado and Nebraska and KSU and A&M. It is laughable to say the current league is "maybe" better top to bottom. And it makes no sense why anyone would even try to make such an argument. No one who coached, played, broadcast, or worked for the conference in any capacity would do so. It was a really good league back then. It's historically great now.
Yep and itís not even debatable. There is plenty of empirical data to support that the conference is significantly tougher today than when Kelvin coached ou.
TINY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 07:21 PM   #43
BCSooners
Elite Eight
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: OK
Posts: 4,655
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaSooner View Post
I'd agree on KU. Texas was probably comparable to now. ISU made the tourney 5 times and finished under .500 three times while Kelvin was at OU. OSU was definitely better. Tech was not even close to being better. They made the tourney 3 times while Kelvin was here, and finished under .500 five times. Baylor is a million times better. And you are leaving out Colorado and Nebraska and KSU and A&M. It is laughable to say the current league is "maybe" better top to bottom. And it makes no sense why anyone would even try to make such an argument. No one who coached, played, broadcast, or worked for the conference in any capacity would do so. It was a really good league back then. It's historically great now.
100% correct
BCSooners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 08:56 PM   #44
BoulderSooner
Owner/Operator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OKlahoma City
Posts: 8,730
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaymanFan View Post
I hope no one is actually comparing the Big XII now to what it was 20-25 years ago. Back then, OU got to basically start out 4-0 against Texas A&M and Baylor. Throw in Nebraska, Kansas State, Colorado (who we played once a year), and Texas Tech, and most years we're looking at 7-2 or 8-1. That means we could go 1-2 against Kansas, Iowa State and Missouri (worst case), 2-2 against Texas and OSU (very seldom did worse), and finish 10-6 / 11-5 without breaking a sweat.
yep
BoulderSooner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2023, 11:17 PM   #45
SoonerBounce13
National Champion
 
SoonerBounce13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,453
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Y’all are crazy to think it isn’t at least close.
Top to bottom it’s better now. But the top teams were better then.

Part of the perception you guys have is because we had more teams then
__________________
"But I know some of the qualities of the coach I would pick. Somebody that doesn't mind working, a coach that's going to bring a fresh mindset and help us all get better as basketball players as well as men. A coach that has all our best interests at heart."

-Romero Osby
SoonerBounce13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2023, 05:01 AM   #46
paboomersooner
Walk-on
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaSooner View Post
I'd agree on KU. Texas was probably comparable to now. ISU made the tourney 5 times and finished under .500 three times while Kelvin was at OU. OSU was definitely better. Tech was not even close to being better. They made the tourney 3 times while Kelvin was here, and finished under .500 five times. Baylor is a million times better. And you are leaving out Colorado and Nebraska and KSU and A&M. It is laughable to say the current league is "maybe" better top to bottom. And it makes no sense why anyone would even try to make such an argument. No one who coached, played, broadcast, or worked for the conference in any capacity would do so. It was a really good league back then. It's historically great now.
I'm sure research and stats would solidify this point but that is not needed. The Big 12 is head and shoulders better now.

Sometimes people romantisize the past and raise their perception of their argument to a level higher than what it was and it clouds one's judgement. Perhaps this is what is happening with some of the members.
paboomersooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2023, 07:17 AM   #47
WichitaSooner
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
Yíall are crazy to think it isnít at least close.
Top to bottom itís better now. But the top teams were better then.

Part of the perception you guys have is because we had more teams then
I guess thatís why back in the day, the league put its top teams in three straight title games and won two of them. And would have had the top overall seed and pre tournament favorite in another season if a global pandemic hadnít wiped out the other tourney during that span. Oh, wait Ö thatís the current league, whereas the league never won a national title while Kelvin was here?
WichitaSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2023, 12:48 PM   #48
BoulderSooner
Owner/Operator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OKlahoma City
Posts: 8,730
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
Yíall are crazy to think it isnít at least close.
Top to bottom itís better now. But the top teams were better then.

Part of the perception you guys have is because we had more teams then
lol the big 12 has the last 2 national champions and tech finished 2nd 3 years ago ..

the top was not "better" then
BoulderSooner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2023, 02:04 PM   #49
allday92
Role Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 653
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

I know RPI isn't the best metric, but this was the only site where I could find college basketball conference rating by year. It uses RPI - the Big 12 hasn't been outside of the top 2 since 2012-2013, and for most of the last 10 years has been the #1 rated conference.

The site tracks back to 1997-1998. From 97-98 to 05-06 when Sampson left here were the Big 12 rankings -

97-98: 8th
98-99: 7th
99-00: 7th
00-01: 6th
01-02: 3rd
02-03: 1st
03-04: 8th
04-05: 3rd
05-06: 5th

The Big 12 is undoubtedly tougher now, at the top, at the bottom, and everywhere in between.

Source: https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-ba...ate=2004-04-06
allday92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2023, 02:06 PM   #50
jmizzy4ou
All-American
 
jmizzy4ou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,342
Default Re: Potential lineup changes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by allday92 View Post
I know RPI isn't the best metric, but this was the only site where I could find college basketball conference rating by year. It uses RPI - the Big 12 hasn't been outside of the top 2 since 2012-2013, and for most of the last 10 years has been the #1 rated conference.

The site tracks back to 1997-1998. From 97-98 to 05-06 when Sampson left here were the Big 12 rankings -

97-98: 8th
98-99: 7th
99-00: 7th
00-01: 6th
01-02: 3rd
02-03: 1st
03-04: 8th
04-05: 3rd
05-06: 5th

The Big 12 is undoubtedly tougher now, at the top, at the bottom, and everywhere in between.

Source: https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-ba...ate=2004-04-06
jmizzy4ou is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Hosted By: URLJet.com