A Stillwater Epiphany

[WaymanFan]

Originally Posted by Eielson

Moser won the last 3 conference games last year and was one unlucky possession way from winning two conference tourney games against quality opponents. How many times did Lon win two conference tourney games? Our fanbase has forgotten what it is to compete in conference tournaments.

But yes, the bar has fallen quite far since Sampson left. Being top 25 was almost automatic at that point, but Lon didn't do it a single time in his last half-decade.

Yup...we're on Year 7 of mediocrity...and YES, going into the month of March on either side of the bubble represents mediocrity. While it's better to squeeze in as a low seed than go to the NIT, neither are anything to brag about. Billy Tubbs inherited less talent than perhaps every coach in OU history. He went to the NCAA Tournament eight consecutive years in which we were never anywhere close to the bubble - seeded 1 or 2 five of the eight years. That's the OU basketball I remember.

[Stikboy]

Originally Posted by WaymanFan

Yup...we're on Year 7 of mediocrity...and YES, going into the month of March on either side of the bubble represents mediocrity. While it's better to squeeze in as a low seed than go to the NIT, neither are anything to brag about. Billy Tubbs inherited less talent than perhaps every coach in OU history. He went to the NCAA Tournament eight consecutive years in which we were never anywhere close to the bubble - seeded 1 or 2 five of the eight years. That's the OU basketball I remember.

I cannot summon enough clapping emoticons.

[skyvue]

I wonder--and I don't pretend to know--if Billy could come back now (at the age he was when started at OU) if he would repeat his success at OU. As most agree, the conference is much tougher, juco is not the talent source that it once was and everyone's competing for portal talent, which I don't think was the case with juco in the 80s, when, if my memory serves (it may not), fewer programs hit the jucos hard.

I'm by no means saying he'd be a bust, but I wonder if he'd reach the same heights he did then.

[WaymanFan]

Originally Posted by skyvue

I wonder--and I don't pretend to know--if Billy could come back now (at the age he was when started at OU) if he would repeat his success at OU. As most agree, the conference is much tougher, juco is not the talent source that it once was and everyone's competing for portal talent, which I don't think was the case with juco in the 80s, when, if my memory serves (it may not), fewer programs hit the jucos hard.

I'm by no means saying he'd be a bust, but I wonder if he'd reach the same heights he did then.

Interesting observation for sure. Billy knew back then OU was not going to get many Burger Boys unless they were in his backyard (like Wayman). However, he found a niche with JUCO players. I'd like to think he would have found another way to create an advantage. Perhaps he would have done better in the portal? He would have somehow found a way to make OU a winner. That said, would he have gone 7 years with only two home losses? Not a chance.

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by skyvue

I wonder--and I don't pretend to know--if Billy could come back now (at the age he was when started at OU) if he would repeat his success at OU. As most agree, the conference is much tougher, juco is not the talent source that it once was and everyone's competing for portal talent, which I don't think was the case with juco in the 80s, when, if my memory serves (it may not), fewer programs hit the jucos hard.

I'm by no means saying he'd be a bust, but I wonder if he'd reach the same heights he did then.

He would have to adapt to succeed at the same level, but that's true of every coach in every sport that's 30-40 years removed. You can never say for sure, but I'm not betting against Billy.

You can talk about changes like JUCO, conference, etc, but by far the biggest change is the quality of the job. The team Billy took over from Bliss was not a quality program with rich history. Even after Billy's run, some of Sampson's mentors were critical of him leaving WSU for OU. I don't think anybody would have questioned that move after the 25 year golden era of OU basketball we had between Tubbs and Sampson.

We've fallen off quite a bit over the last 17 seasons, with only 4 teams ranked top 25 at the end of the season (Capel had an unranked 6 seed, which you could argue was top 25), but we still have a streak of 4 consecutive coaches with Elite 8 appearances. If not for a brutal UNC matchup, it would probably be Final 4s. We've made the plunge back to P5 mediocrity, but the discussion about how successful you can realistically be at this football school has dramatically changed since 1980.