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Old 02-21-2019, 01:55 PM   #76
WichitaSooner
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Default Re: Is Kelvin a realistic option?

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The difference between Lon being at 61% and being at 58% is less than 1 win per season. That is not significant.
So a .270 hitter is as good as a .300 hitter? Because that's also "only" a difference of three per 100. And as I noted, Lon has played a much tougher schedule than Capel did OU.

As for some of the other posters on the board, I've never suggested Kelvin wasn't a great coach. I love the guy, and unlike some of you, he treated me incredibly well and I have no connection to the program other than being a diehard fan since I was a tiny kid growing up in Kansas. But again, I don't see why there is any need to compare him and Lon. Even if you don't think Lon measures up to KS, that in and of itself doesn't mean he isn't a good coach.
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:03 PM   #77
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So a .270 hitter is as good as a .300 hitter? Because that's also "only" a difference of three per 100. And as I noted, Lon has played a much tougher schedule than Capel did OU.
oh c'mon. That isn't even comparable.

I don't know anyone but you that would debate there is a big difference b/t a winning percentage of 58% and 61%
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:10 PM   #78
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It's not fair to say Lon only won with Buddy. Lon has had successful seasons nearly everywhere he's gone. The problem is this -- Lon wins in CYCLES. He never has sustained success. If you look at his career, he's gone to the Sweet 16 with nearly every team he's coached (exception: Illinois). You'll also notice that early success never led to the program reaching new heights; they spiraled downward immediately after.

My take on this is not that he becomes complacent or anything like that, but simply that he has to reset. He's never been at a program long enough to have time for a second wave of success, but I fully expect he will if he stays at OU a few more years. This second wave has been delayed because James/Odomes didn't develop into Cousins/Hield caliber, which was followed up by the McGusty disaster and Trae's early departure. This program is getting a hard reset next year, and I fully expect us to make a Sweet 16 with the incoming group of guys. That's just the Lon Kruger way, and I'll take bets on it all day (if he makes it that long). My hope is that he retires on that high note, and steps away before we have to experience this downward cycle again (which, historically speaking, is almost inevitable).
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Old 02-21-2019, 03:15 PM   #79
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The difference between Lon being at 61% and being at 58% is less than 1 win per season. That is not significant.
The difference between having 2 years of Blake Griffin and not is significant, however.
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:38 PM   #80
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The difference between having 2 years of Blake Griffin and not is significant, however.
Lon had Buddy and Trae. You can't look at somebody's 5 year tenure, scrap their top 2, and expect to have much to look at.
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:35 PM   #81
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The difference between having 2 years of Blake Griffin and not is significant, however.
You need to think before you type.

Buddy & TY > Griffin
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:21 PM   #82
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You need to think before you type.

Buddy & TY > Griffin
But TY wasn't a good overall player!! I read it right here so it must be true.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:41 PM   #83
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Capel, Kruger and Sampson have combined to win THREE NCAA Tournament games without Blake, Buddy, and Hollis. Since they won 18 Tournament games with them, it's safe to conclude that coaches are more successful when they have good players.


You can't go to multiple Final Fours, plus have an Elite Eight and a few Sweet 16s on your resume and not being able to coach. NOT HAPPENING. Coach Kruger may end up in the Hall of Fame simply because he's won everywhere and he's never had a HINT of a scandal or any controversy whatsoever. The guy squeaks when he walks. He's obviously not without his faults, especially has not shown he can win consistently at any one place. I'm on record as saying I have been disappointed with the coaching staff in general since Buddy left - but I wish people would stop the foolishness of acting like the guy is a mediocre coach.


Coach Capel is not as accomplished as Kruger by a long shot, but I've read my share of nonsense about him as well. I would be shocked if he doesn't take Pitt to the levels they had with Jamie Dixon and Paul Evans. His problems at OU are mostly correctable. He could coach and recruit - but OU was his Guinea Pig in regards to running a PROGRAM. I'm sure he's learned that if you don't land your 5-star priority, you need better than a 2-star backup plan.


As for Coach Sampson, if you're someone who wishes he'd come back because he's a great coach, or if you want nothing to do with him because of how he left OU, guess what? YOU ARE RIGHT.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:25 PM   #84
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You need to think before you type.

Buddy & TY > Griffin
Ok. Have it your way.

Buddy had 2 years where he was growing and 1 where he was just really good. Trae had 1 great season but still had some issues. Blake was the undisputed best player in the game for 2 consecutive years. He was unstoppable. Does anyone seriously think Capel wins 61% with Buddy's freshman & sophomore season only and Trae's freshman season if he could only muster 58% including Blake's 2 seasons?

You guys are bending reality to fit your narrative. Give Kruger Blake's 2 years and give Capel Buddy's 1st 2 years and Trae's 1 and it's not nearly as close as 61-58.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:27 PM   #85
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You need to think before you type.

Buddy & TY > Griffin
You're deranged. You have your mind made up & you'll just make up anything to fit your preconceived notions.

This is why you only join us when OU is struggling and you can chime in to bad-mouth the team, the players, & the coaches.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:19 PM   #86
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I'm on record as saying I have been disappointed with the coaching staff in general since Buddy left - but I wish people would stop the foolishness of acting like the guy is a mediocre coach.
What would you call a record of 69-70 in Big 12 play in 7+ seasons?
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:07 PM   #87
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What would you call a record of 69-70 in Big 12 play in 7+ seasons?
I don't suggest for a second that doing well in league isn't relevant, but I just think you are too fixated on this one stat to the exclusion of anything else. College basketball seems to be the one sport where people do this. If a pro team in any sport consistently makes the playoffs, do people even know, let alone care, if their record in the division isn't as strong as against non-division teams? Obviously we can all agree that we haven't played well in the league the past three years. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise. But it is equally foolish to completely ignore our great record against a very good nonconference schedule. Does last year's win on the road against a top 10 WSU somehow mean less when it comes to evaluating Lon's coaching than a home win over, say, Oklahoma State? Again, I'm not happy with 4-9, or last year's 8-10, but the season starts in Nov, not January.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:12 PM   #88
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Blake was the undisputed best player in the game for 2 consecutive years. He was unstoppable.
False. Michael Beasley was the best player in the country, and somehow Hansbrough won the Naismith. He was great as a freshman, but he took it to another level as a sophomore.

And even for most of his sophomore year, he wasn't the undisputed best player. Granted, only stupid people were disputing it, but Hansbrough had a cult following.
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Old 02-22-2019, 04:23 AM   #89
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What would you call a record of 69-70 in Big 12 play in 7+ seasons?
I'd call it cherry-picking one particular stat.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:30 AM   #90
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What would you call a record of 69-70 in Big 12 play in 7+ seasons?
I'd call it unacceptable.
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Old 02-22-2019, 08:02 AM   #91
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I think Lon is a good coach and has accomplished a lot of great things in his career. Hes never recruited at an elite level, mostly because hes never been willing to cheat like bill self, Roy Williams, coach K, calipari, and the like. He has more ups and downs than most for whatever reason.

Hes getting to the end of his career and will retire soon. At some point, you have to ask if he has anything left. Im sure he wants to keep coaching but that doesnt mean he can still get the job done. Those are valid questions
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:24 AM   #92
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I'd call it unacceptable.
Who wouldn't?
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:01 AM   #93
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Capel, Kruger and Sampson have combined to win THREE NCAA Tournament games without Blake, Buddy, and Hollis. Since they won 18 Tournament games with them, it's safe to conclude that coaches are more successful when they have good players.


You can't go to multiple Final Fours, plus have an Elite Eight and a few Sweet 16s on your resume and not being able to coach. NOT HAPPENING. Coach Kruger may end up in the Hall of Fame simply because he's won everywhere and he's never had a HINT of a scandal or any controversy whatsoever. The guy squeaks when he walks. He's obviously not without his faults, especially has not shown he can win consistently at any one place. I'm on record as saying I have been disappointed with the coaching staff in general since Buddy left - but I wish people would stop the foolishness of acting like the guy is a mediocre coach.


Coach Capel is not as accomplished as Kruger by a long shot, but I've read my share of nonsense about him as well. I would be shocked if he doesn't take Pitt to the levels they had with Jamie Dixon and Paul Evans. His problems at OU are mostly correctable. He could coach and recruit - but OU was his Guinea Pig in regards to running a PROGRAM. I'm sure he's learned that if you don't land your 5-star priority, you need better than a 2-star backup plan.


As for Coach Sampson, if you're someone who wishes he'd come back because he's a great coach, or if you want nothing to do with him because of how he left OU, guess what? YOU ARE RIGHT.
Someone has pointed out the conference record while Lon has been the head coach, and that record currently stands at 69-70. Whether Lon was labeled a 'mediocre' coach or a 'good' coach or a 'most excellent' coach does not change the 69-70. Labels are overly subjective while won loss records are not, as they seem to qualify as being objective, thus we need to be able to figure out that the objective dictates what the subjective is and not the other way around. Labeling someone as great does not translate into an undefeated record, while an undefeated record dictates the labels to be applied.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:46 PM   #94
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I'd call it cherry-picking one particular stat.
8 years of conference records is too broad to be considered cherry-picking.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:44 PM   #95
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8 years of conference records is too broad to be considered cherry-picking.
Perhaps...but it would also be too broad to list his endless accomplishments as well. At the end of the day, there's at least a 50/50 chance he ends up in Springfield. If he does, I think there will be a lot of sad faces here...and that's unfortunate. I'm on record as being very disappointed with the coaching staff since Buddy left...haven't wavered from that one bit. If we don't make the Dance this year, and Lon subsequently retires, I'll be looking forward to seeing who replaces him. Still, he's had a great career, and a reasonable chance of getting OU to the Dance for the 6th time in the last 7 years...regardless of conference record.
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Old 02-22-2019, 08:10 PM   #96
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Perhaps...but it would also be too broad to list his endless accomplishments as well. At the end of the day, there's at least a 50/50 chance he ends up in Springfield. If he does, I think there will be a lot of sad faces here...and that's unfortunate. I'm on record as being very disappointed with the coaching staff since Buddy left...haven't wavered from that one bit. If we don't make the Dance this year, and Lon subsequently retires, I'll be looking forward to seeing who replaces him. Still, he's had a great career, and a reasonable chance of getting OU to the Dance for the 6th time in the last 7 years...regardless of conference record.
I'm actually going to backtrack a little. My gut reaction was that 69-70 was bad, but in reality, averaging 9-9 in the Big XII isn't too bad. That gets you into the NCAA tournament almost regardless of your non-conference resume. He's in the middle of a dreadful 2-year stretch in conference, but he's been pretty good in the Big XII overall. As bad as 2016-17 was, it was actually slightly better in conference than out, and I tend to give new coaches a pass on their first season. That four year conference run with Buddy was very impressive overall. I felt we underperformed Buddy's senior year going 12-6, but not nearly as much as we overperformed the previous 3 seasons.

I don't think Lon is a bad coach, and I'd even go as far as to say he was the right choice for the job. I wouldn't say that if we hadn't been in trouble with the NCAA, though. At the end of the day, Lon's success has always come in cycles, and I think we're capable of more than that. In fact, I know that, because Tubbs and Sampson did it for nearly 30 years. Kruger probably deserves HOF consideration, but it's not based off of the work he did here. You won't see me celebrate the day Lon leaves, but I won't be sad either.
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Old 02-23-2019, 01:33 PM   #97
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Houston, Youre Up!
College GameDay Heads to University of Houston for First Time


https://espnmediazone.com/us/press-r...or-first-time/

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College GameDay Covered by State Farm will head to Texas for its very first appearance at the University of Houston on Saturday, March 2. The traveling pregame college basketball show hosted by Rece Davis with analysts Jay Bilas, Seth Greenberg and Jay Williams, will originate from Fertitta Center, beginning at 11 a.m. ET on ESPN.

The show precedes the American Athletic Conference matchup between No. 9 Houston and UCF (4 p.m., ESPN). Davis and Bilas will join Maria Taylor to call the game.

This is the first time either Houston or UCF have been part of a game that GameDay has originated from. Houston boasts the best record in the country at 25-1, and the Cougars have won 32 straight home games the longest active streak in the country.
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Old 02-23-2019, 01:51 PM   #98
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I'm actually going to backtrack a little. My gut reaction was that 69-70 was bad, but in reality, averaging 9-9 in the Big XII isn't too bad. That gets you into the NCAA tournament almost regardless of your non-conference resume. He's in the middle of a dreadful 2-year stretch in conference, but he's been pretty good in the Big XII overall. As bad as 2016-17 was, it was actually slightly better in conference than out, and I tend to give new coaches a pass on their first season. That four year conference run with Buddy was very impressive overall. I felt we underperformed Buddy's senior year going 12-6, but not nearly as much as we overperformed the previous 3 seasons.

I don't think Lon is a bad coach, and I'd even go as far as to say he was the right choice for the job. I wouldn't say that if we hadn't been in trouble with the NCAA, though. At the end of the day, Lon's success has always come in cycles, and I think we're capable of more than that. In fact, I know that, because Tubbs and Sampson did it for nearly 30 years. Kruger probably deserves HOF consideration, but it's not based off of the work he did here. You won't see me celebrate the day Lon leaves, but I won't be sad either.
You won't find a bigger fan of Billy Tubbs than me but his success was somewhat due to the Big 8 being a mediocre conference from top to bottom. Colorado, Nebraska, and OSU were pretty much easy wins in the 80's. KSU had a few decent seasons, and ISU was good at home but mediocre otherwise. So, that left OU, KU, and Mizzou, and those 3 teams dominated the Big 8 in the 80's. Once OSU hired Sutton and Danny Nee started winning at Nebraska, Tubbs program slipped to squarely in the middle of the big 8. This makes what Kelvin accomplished even that more incredible because by the time he arrived the Big 8/12 was a pretty good basketball conference.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:04 PM   #99
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They stomped a pretty good Cincy team today, on the road, with Cincy having a lot to play for (being co-conference champs).

Still hoping they can find a way to get to sent to Tulsa for the first set of games.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:37 PM   #100
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Top 10 team. LOL. Rankings are semantics. Houston is not top 10. That will be proven soon enough

Kelvin is a good coach but this board reeks of revisionist history. In a P5 conference, hes worth 20 wins and a tourney bid, no more.
This post hasn't aged well.
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