ouhoops.com
forums roster schedule stats rankings rpi bracketology big xII standings recruiting ouhoopstv

Go Back   OUHoops > Main Category > Women's Hoops Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2019, 10:57 AM   #26
inoref
All-American
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: Houston game

OU getting hosed paying SC that amount..She must know something on someone
inoref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 11:53 AM   #27
SoonerSpock
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybarite View Post
So, when something gets screwed up, you simply change your purposes were? Explains the government, maybe.

First, I didn't really read through your stuff since I've seen it before. I'm not inclined to pay a coach more than a history professor in the first place. We get the same distorted ideals when we play rock stars and athletes more than farmers and teachers. You are indicating that we should accept this distorted value system as valid, when it is of no value to the growth of a nation or economy.

Just a thought: list of largest endowments in the US. Are all of those large endowments at Harvard, Yale, Smith, and Emory because they are so much better at football than OU?https://thebestschools.org/features/...sity-research/

I told my daughter to go to Wellesley if she wanted a good football team. Notice that Harvard's endowment is over twenty times that of OU, and they haven't been in the top twenty since the twenties.

They refer to the Texas and Texas A&M systems which includes all of their affiliates, UT Galveston, UTD, UTA, etc. A&M-Corpus Christi, etc.
And none of that gobbledygook is germane to Power 5 conference athletic teams and how they pay their coaches. Typical Syb tactic comparing apples to oranges when your position is indefensible. Sherri Coale is being over paid for doing a terrible job coach the OU WBB team for the last 8-9 years.
__________________
Whether you think you can or think that you can't, you are usually right. Henry Ford.

Last edited by SoonerSpock; 11-26-2019 at 11:55 AM.
SoonerSpock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 01:53 PM   #28
sybarite
National Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,486
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerSpock View Post
And none of that gobbledygook is germane to Power 5 conference athletic teams and how they pay their coaches. Typical Syb tactic comparing apples to oranges when your position is indefensible. Sherri Coale is being over paid for doing a terrible job coach the OU WBB team for the last 8-9 years.
I didn't say it was. Indeed, I'm not sure how much longer the current style of college sports will continue once we settle the payment issue. I said, essentially, 1) the power five structure violates the intent of the creation of educational institutions and must be questioned, and 2) the idea that they are necessary as fundraisers for the universities is absolute folly since the largest endowments have nothing to do with sports.

The only thing that the power five sports programs do is to provide fans with entertainment, which is not the function of a college. Set up a minor league sports system. But, don't talk to me of coach salaries as a part of a system that probably shouldn't exist in the first place.

I don't know that I would set myself up as a judge on a Hall of Fame Coach. Got a better one available? Sure?
sybarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 02:05 PM   #29
soonermike22
Walk-on
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 381
Default Re: Houston game

sorry Syb but you are wrong again.
The academics comes in the classroom, and that is first priority of the universities mission. But all auxiliary parts need to also provide first class production, or face correction. Athletics is both advertisement and fundraising strengths of a University. Right now not only is our wbb teams competitive ability below acceptable levels, but is not a positive product in either the publicity it brings the University, or helping fundraising.
Make a change to improve the product. Riding the quality reputation of the WBB HC can only go so far. This board shows that more than just a majority are ready for a change. And many of us have shown that opinion both in less attendance and lower University (Sooner Club included) contributions.
soonermike22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 04:30 PM   #30
SoonerSpock
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybarite View Post
I didn't say it was. Indeed, I'm not sure how much longer the current style of college sports will continue once we settle the payment issue. I said, essentially, 1) the power five structure violates the intent of the creation of educational institutions and must be questioned, and 2) the idea that they are necessary as fundraisers for the universities is absolute folly since the largest endowments have nothing to do with sports.

The only thing that the power five sports programs do is to provide fans with entertainment, which is not the function of a college. Set up a minor league sports system. But, don't talk to me of coach salaries as a part of a system that probably shouldn't exist in the first place.

I don't know that I would set myself up as a judge on a Hall of Fame Coach. Got a better one available? Sure?
Whether the power 5 sports programs should exist in your eyes or not has little or no practical relevance as it does exist and it will continue to exist for the foreseeable future. Moreover it will continue to generate needed incremental millions of dollars in donations to their universities.

Like it or not Sherri's performance the last 8-9 years is not the reason Sherri became a Hall of Fame coach. Nor will she be the first coach to wither away resting on their laurels. JMHO which is probably just as worthless as yours.
__________________
Whether you think you can or think that you can't, you are usually right. Henry Ford.

Last edited by SoonerSpock; 11-26-2019 at 04:46 PM.
SoonerSpock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 04:37 PM   #31
soonerstar
All-Conference
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,758
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerSpock View Post
Sherri's performance the last 8-9 years is not the reason Sherri became a Hall of Fame coach. Nor will she be the first coach to wither away resting on their laurels.
Sylvia Hatchell 2.0. She is the first one that comes to mind. However, Hatchell never had an 8-22 record in all her years.
soonerstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 05:36 PM   #32
sybarite
National Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,486
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerSpock View Post
Whether the power 5 sports programs should exist in your eyes or not has little or no practical relevance as it does exist and it will continue to exist for the foreseeable future. Moreover it will continue to generate needed incremental millions of dollars in donations to their universities.

Like it or not Sherri's performance the last 8-9 years is not the reason Sherri became a Hall of Fame coach. Nor will she be the first coach to wither away resting on their laurels. JMHO which is probably just as worthless as yours.
The recent laws about athlete payment is the first round of concern. The NCAA has been concerned about athlete unions, etc., for some time now. They will lose this battle.

Do they really raise revenues?

Let's go back and look at those endowments:

1. Harvard $38.3 billion
2. UT-System $30.8 billion
3. Yale $29.3 billion
4. Stanford $26.4 billion
5. Princeton $25.9 billion

6. MIT $16.5 billion
7. Penn 13.7 billion
8. A&M System $13.5 billion
9. Michigan $11.9 billion
10. Northwestern $11.08 billion

15. Chicago $7.59 billion
16. Washington, St. Louis $7.29 billion
17. Emory $7.23 billion
25. Johns Hopkins $4.266 billion
26. NYU $4.264 billion
36. Williams $2.623 billion
44. Amherst $2,273 billion
49. Swathmore $2.105 billion
50. Wellesley $2.091 billion

62. OKLAHOMA $1.723 billion

Every member of the Ivy League has more in endowments than OU, more than any Big Twelve school other than the UT-System, whatever part of that should be at UTAustin.

Look at the list. Swathmore and Wellesley have more than OU? Are sports really that effective at raising money? Harvard has what, 20 times our endowment? Yale? Emory?
sybarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 05:45 PM   #33
sooner8693
Walk-on
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 319
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybarite View Post
The recent laws about athlete payment is the first round of concern. The NCAA has been concerned about athlete unions, etc., for some time now. They will lose this battle.

Do they really raise revenues?

Let's go back and look at those endowments:

1. Harvard $38.3 billion
2. UT-System $30.8 billion
3. Yale $29.3 billion
4. Stanford $26.4 billion
5. Princeton $25.9 billion

6. MIT $16.5 billion
7. Penn 13.7 billion
8. A&M System $13.5 billion
9. Michigan $11.9 billion
10. Northwestern $11.08 billion

15. Chicago $7.59 billion
16. Washington, St. Louis $7.29 billion
17. Emory $7.23 billion
25. Johns Hopkins $4.266 billion
26. NYU $4.264 billion
36. Williams $2.623 billion
44. Amherst $2,273 billion
49. Swathmore $2.105 billion
50. Wellesley $2.091 billion

62. OKLAHOMA $1.723 billion

Every member of the Ivy League has more in endowments than OU, more than any Big Twelve school other than the UT-System, whatever part of that should be at UTAustin.

Look at the list. Swathmore and Wellesley have more than OU? Are sports really that effective at raising money? Harvard has what, 20 times our endowment? Yale? Emory?
You are working very hard to divert this thread away from the pathetic performance of Sherri Coale and her little boy. Kudos to you.
sooner8693 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 07:12 PM   #34
Oliver Hardy
Sweet 16
 
Oliver Hardy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,627
Default Houston game

Those universities are academically well above OU. Additionally, the probably have more millionaires per 100 students than OU could ever dream about giving back to the university.

It is not an Apple-to-apple comparison on any level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oliver Hardy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 10:01 PM   #35
CavalryRoadie
Walk-on
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybarite View Post
The recent laws about athlete payment is the first round of concern. The NCAA has been concerned about athlete unions, etc., for some time now. They will lose this battle.

Do they really raise revenues?

Let's go back and look at those endowments:

1. Harvard $38.3 billion
2. UT-System $30.8 billion
3. Yale $29.3 billion
4. Stanford $26.4 billion
5. Princeton $25.9 billion

6. MIT $16.5 billion
7. Penn 13.7 billion
8. A&M System $13.5 billion
9. Michigan $11.9 billion
10. Northwestern $11.08 billion

15. Chicago $7.59 billion
16. Washington, St. Louis $7.29 billion
17. Emory $7.23 billion
25. Johns Hopkins $4.266 billion
26. NYU $4.264 billion
36. Williams $2.623 billion
44. Amherst $2,273 billion
49. Swathmore $2.105 billion
50. Wellesley $2.091 billion

62. OKLAHOMA $1.723 billion

Every member of the Ivy League has more in endowments than OU, more than any Big Twelve school other than the UT-System, whatever part of that should be at UTAustin.

Look at the list. Swathmore and Wellesley have more than OU? Are sports really that effective at raising money? Harvard has what, 20 times our endowment? Yale? Emory?
Since you brought it up...How much of the annual gains (profit) on these endowments is taxable?
CavalryRoadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 10:11 PM   #36
sybarite
National Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,486
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavalryRoadie View Post
Since you brought it up...How much of the annual gains (profit) on these endowments is taxable?
They weren't. They are:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...tax-endowments
sybarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 10:12 PM   #37
SoonerSpock
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by sooner8693 View Post
You are working very hard to divert this thread away from the pathetic performance of Sherri Coale and her little boy. Kudos to you.

Another apples to oranges comparison. That is the Syb M.O. What the Havards of the academic community does to acquire their academic endowments has no bearing what OU has to do to enhance their endowment funding.

The last number I received in the Oklahoma Athletic Department annual budget indicated OU athletic department was funding about $8 million annuallly on academic support most which goes either the endowment and the OU library. Assuming a $6 million addition to the endowment fund and an average scholarship of $5,000 their endowment contributions could fund 60 scholarships annually or 2 $300,000 endowed professors and over a decade that is 240 scholarships and/or 20 endowed professors funded annually.

But that is not the big impact athletics has on the endowment fund. Those moneys come from university friends, alumni and existing donor who are attracted back to the campus by athletics where they create new relationships and build stronger relationships with academia and in turn make greater contributions to the university. Those dollars could easily be 10,20 or 50 fold the meager $8 million annual athletic department contribution.

So in theory with friends, alumni and donor beginning or expanding their donation they could possibly endow as many as 200 endowed professors in the next decade.

Yep, the athletic departments financial commitment and financial impact to academia is very significant. P.S. which students and endowed professors would want to surrender they endowment were the AD funding and related funding not available?
__________________
Whether you think you can or think that you can't, you are usually right. Henry Ford.
SoonerSpock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 10:31 PM   #38
sybarite
National Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,486
Default Re: Houston game

The only relevance is from the history.

The better schools get their endowment size because they do produce students who generate income. But, they also generate grant money from industry because of the expertise.

When OU got the opportunity, they allowed the huge (and I mean huge) donors to give money to the football program. Since OU did have a very dominant petroleum engineering and geology department, it did have a lot of very rich alums in the oil industry. Back in the forties and fifties, the most influential club in Dallas was the Petroleum Club. Been there a couple of times, after its heyday, and it was still plush. Finest food in DFW.

But, they really didn't give much to the university per se. They finally made a rule that half of the contributions had to go to OURI, not just football. I don't know if there was a lot going into the buildings. But, there weren't a lot of new buildings for a university that had received huge contributions. The endowment was less than a billion, I think less than a hundred million at the time.

If you want long-term success, you put the money into the growth of an academic program, which is the real reason that when you look at the endowments, it becomes obvious that a lot of small schools ended up with huge endowments, and very fine academic reputations. Now, shall we discuss those of OU in comparison?
sybarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2019, 09:13 AM   #39
SoonerSpock
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Houston game

Perhaps rather than looking at the OU endowment from the perspective of comparing with the top 10 endowment schools which is another Syb apples to oranges approach it would be more appropriate to compare the OU endowment with the other public universities.

Overall OU's endowment ranks a #62 per the attached. By my count only 21 public universities have a larger endowment. This listing identifies the OU endowment as being $1.723 billion. Other public schools endowments are:

University of Kansas $1.735, University of Toronto $1.875, University of California, Berkeley $1.886, Virginia Commonwealth $1.944, Georgia Tech $1.991, University of Indiana $2.385, University of California, Los Angeles, Purdue University $2.522, University of Illinois $2.523, University of Washington $2.749 and Michigan State $2.879 just to name 10 similar schools.

It should be noted that Texas Tech, OSU, KSU, ISU, WVU, Arkansas, Nebraska, Florida, Missouri, Alabama, Kentucky, Colorado, Tennessee, Maryland, Georgia, and LSU's endowments are all smaller than OU's endowment. Moreover OSU is not actually listed by endowment dollar amount because they are not a top 100 school and their endowment is less than $1 billion.

Just another Syb attempt to use irrelevant data to distort reality. Apples compare best against apples.

https://thebestschools.org/features/...sity-research/
__________________
Whether you think you can or think that you can't, you are usually right. Henry Ford.

Last edited by SoonerSpock; 11-27-2019 at 09:28 AM.
SoonerSpock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2019, 01:29 PM   #40
sybarite
National Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,486
Default Re: Houston game

This last post was so inaccurate that you shouldn't have posted until you read it. I provided a list of 100, not ten. You almost made my point for me by listing our competition among public universities. Which of those would you feel were outstanding colleges to which you might want to send your children?

A local highschool, Allen, Tx, provided an illustration of misplaced values. As a newly-emerging suburb of Dallas, it built a $60 million football stadium for its highschool. How many of the schools on that list of large endowments would have a $60 million stadium?

Read through that entire list of top 100 endowments. If memory serves, the largest in Iowa is Grinnell. Emory ranks above Georgia. Johns Hopkins ranks above Maryland. Case Western tops Ohio schools. The Charles River (and nearby) schools like Harvard, MIT, Boston, Boston College, Tufts, Wellesley, do pretty well. The only football stadium I remember was at BC, and it wouldn't have been as large as you see in most small towns. It is a matter of value system.

You brought up the idea of money in Coale's salary. My point is that it is misplaced value, and the entire thing may have been distorted. The schools that are on top academically don't seem to have emphasized sports at all.

Figure out another approach to getting rid of Sherri.
sybarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2019, 02:18 PM   #41
sooner8693
Walk-on
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 319
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybarite View Post
This last post was so inaccurate that you shouldn't have posted until you read it. I provided a list of 100, not ten. You almost made my point for me by listing our competition among public universities. Which of those would you feel were outstanding colleges to which you might want to send your children?

A local highschool, Allen, Tx, provided an illustration of misplaced values. As a newly-emerging suburb of Dallas, it built a $60 million football stadium for its highschool. How many of the schools on that list of large endowments would have a $60 million stadium?

Read through that entire list of top 100 endowments. If memory serves, the largest in Iowa is Grinnell. Emory ranks above Georgia. Johns Hopkins ranks above Maryland. Case Western tops Ohio schools. The Charles River (and nearby) schools like Harvard, MIT, Boston, Boston College, Tufts, Wellesley, do pretty well. The only football stadium I remember was at BC, and it wouldn't have been as large as you see in most small towns. It is a matter of value system.

You brought up the idea of money in Coale's salary. My point is that it is misplaced value, and the entire thing may have been distorted. The schools that are on top academically don't seem to have emphasized sports at all.

Figure out another approach to getting rid of Sherri.
Ok, how about this approach, her product on the floor is BAD and doesn't appear to be getting better anytime soon. And how about letting her pay her baby boy's salary out of her paycheck.
sooner8693 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2019, 06:46 PM   #42
sybarite
National Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,486
Default Re: Houston game

The only issue I have is nepotism. I don't like the use of Mike Stoops, Coltan Coale, or the two Gasso boys.
sybarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 06:36 AM   #43
SoonerSpock
Sweet 16
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Houston game

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybarite View Post
The only issue I have is nepotism. I don't like the use of Mike Stoops, Coltan Coale, or the two Gasso boys.
That finger needs to be pointed at Joe Castiglione. It all happens under his watch. You not only have the Mike Stoops, Colton and Gasso's but also women's gymnastics coach K.J. Kindler's husband Lou Ball is the assistant women's gymnastics coach and volleyball coach Lindsey Gray-Walton's husband Kyle Walton is the volunteer volleyball coach.

Nepotism as a public university is a terrible practice where personnel decisions must be made.

P.S. The list of universities I provided with comparable or lessor endowment funds would all be more than acceptable for my children to attend. Both of my children attended public universities, graduated with honors and have developed successful productive lives. Their only real failure was no grandchildren for me to spoil and send home.

And the world is still over your head. The private schools with their large endowments are chartered to educate a very small number of selective students not the general population mass. They also charge 3, 5 and 10 times the tuition dollars that many public institutions charge. They set entrance standard that only 1-5% student population can meet. Moreover the private schools don't have the legislature overlooking their shoulder at every financial decision. I wonder what annual endowment donations at Harvard would be if they knew the school was under the purview of the Massachusetts legislature.

Public and private higher education entities have different missions trying to compare them as though they should be equals is folly. But that is nothing new to you. You have always had difficulty distinguishing the difference in an apple and an orange.
__________________
Whether you think you can or think that you can't, you are usually right. Henry Ford.

Last edited by SoonerSpock; 11-28-2019 at 09:52 AM.
SoonerSpock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Hosted By: URLJet.com