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Old 05-05-2020, 04:22 PM   #51
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Default Re: TCU Gets Notice of Allegations from NCAA

I will say that until the NCAA starts really punishing ALL programs that are caught cheating guys like LK will almost always lack on the court talent.
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:21 PM   #52
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OU wasn’t last 4 in any year.
Why do people keep saying this? It may be true, but it's irrelevant. At least twice in the last four years we're 1 or 2 games from not making the Dance. That's bubble, even if not by the widely used definition of the term.
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:22 PM   #53
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I will say that until the NCAA starts really punishing ALL programs that are caught cheating guys like LK will almost always lack on the court talent.
Not everybody that is out-recruiting us is cheating or a blue blood program. Not even close.
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:38 PM   #54
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Why do people keep saying this? It may be true, but it's irrelevant. At least twice in the last four years we're 1 or 2 games from not making the Dance. That's bubble, even if not by the widely used definition of the term.
This is where you lost me
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:39 PM   #55
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Not everybody that is out-recruiting us is cheating or a blue blood program. Not even close.
Definitely not, but most including blue bloods are.
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:40 PM   #56
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Why do people keep saying this? It may be true, but it's irrelevant. At least twice in the last four years we're 1 or 2 games from not making the Dance. That's bubble, even if not by the widely used definition of the term.
So the board shouldn’t use the widely accepted definition but should instead go with the WT definition since it fits your narrative? Got it.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:02 PM   #57
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This is where you lost me
It's two entirely different things. The NCAA can narrow the teams down to a couple of spots based on the actual results. What I, and others, are saying, is that if you look at the thing as a whole, we're literally in by a game or two. We've gotten in a couple of times when in a lot of others years, we wouldn't even have been on the bubble. That is definitely accurate of the 2018-2019 season. There are two sides to making the Dance in terms of the bubble and the last 8 or so teams in.....what your team does, and what a few other teams do. That isn't something I'm going to sit around being proud of. If you all want to, and you want to act like making the tournament in ANY fashion is cause for joy, you have that right. And I have the right to expect more. I don't want our season coming down to 1 or 2 games. It shouldn't. Our program is better than that. Our program is better than .500 in Big 12 play, and having 5 of 9 Lon coached seasons of being .500 or worse in conference.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:22 PM   #58
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It's two entirely different things. The NCAA can narrow the teams down to a couple of spots based on the actual results. What I, and others, are saying, is that if you look at the thing as a whole, we're literally in by a game or two. We've gotten in a couple of times when in a lot of others years, we wouldn't even have been on the bubble. That is definitely accurate of the 2018-2019 season. There are two sides to making the Dance in terms of the bubble and the last 8 or so teams in.....what your team does, and what a few other teams do. That isn't something I'm going to sit around being proud of. If you all want to, and you want to act like making the tournament in ANY fashion is cause for joy, you have that right. And I have the right to expect more. I don't want our season coming down to 1 or 2 games. It shouldn't. Our program is better than that. Our program is better than .500 in Big 12 play, and having 5 of 9 Lon coached seasons of being .500 or worse in conference.
OU won those 1-2 games, so I’m saying your argument is pointless. OU made the tournament. I promise you if OU misses the tournament I’m not going to say “they almost made it”. It would not make the standard, which OU has 7/8 years.

You say OU got in when they normally wouldn’t? They have never been a last 4 team in so they would’ve made it in anyway. Seems like you are just looking for more reasons to downgrade the positives this staff has done.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:27 PM   #59
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Definitely not, but most including blue bloods are.
I don't believe that. Are there are a lot of teams bending some small stupid rules that don't impact the results of recruiting? Probably. But just outright buying players? I don't see it. Plenty of schools that don't have recruiting advantages over us and have had no mentions of being dirty, that are out-recruiting us.

I'll say it again, TWO 4* HS players on our roster next year (using 247). Two. Nearly half the conference recruited at least two in this year's class. Houston is going to have three 4* players they recruited out of HS on their roster next year, plus a 5* transfer. Arky is bringing in four 4* HS kids, plus another 4* transfer I believe. Auburn is bringing in a 4 and a 5 star kid. TT. Baylor. Alabama. Xavier. All bringing in multiple 4* kids THIS class. And we have Phipps. We'll see how 2021 goes, but while Cortez is currently a 4*, we're not really in front for any other 4* kids, in what needs to be a big/good class for our program.

I got a little off track here, but I was attempting to show some schools that I don't believe are cheating, that are handing us our butts in recruiting. Didn't even mention aTm who had a 4* in the 2020 class and appears to have stolen two of our top targets in the 2021 class, both 4* kids.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:30 PM   #60
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OU won those 1-2 games, so I’m saying your argument is pointless. OU made the tournament. I promise you if OU misses the tournament I’m not going to say “they almost made it”. It would not make the standard, which OU has 7/8 years.

You say OU got in when they normally wouldn’t? They have never been a last 4 team in so they would’ve made it in anyway. Seems like you are just looking for more reasons to downgrade the positives this staff has done.
lmao

How many teams have finished 4 games under .500 in their conference and made the tournament? I think the answer is 2 or 3, and we were one of them.

It's okay that we have different standards. Some of us just want more.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:59 PM   #61
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lmao

How many teams have finished 4 games under .500 in their conference and made the tournament? I think the answer is 2 or 3, and we were one of them.

It's okay that we have different standards. Some of us just want more.
That’s why OOC matters just as much.

Yes you care about conference, I care about the season as a whole.
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:06 PM   #62
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I don't believe that. Are there are a lot of teams bending some small stupid rules that don't impact the results of recruiting? Probably. But just outright buying players? I don't see it. Plenty of schools that don't have recruiting advantages over us and have had no mentions of being dirty, that are out-recruiting us.

I'll say it again, TWO 4* HS players on our roster next year (using 247). Two. Nearly half the conference recruited at least two in this year's class. Houston is going to have three 4* players they recruited out of HS on their roster next year, plus a 5* transfer. Arky is bringing in four 4* HS kids, plus another 4* transfer I believe. Auburn is bringing in a 4 and a 5 star kid. TT. Baylor. Alabama. Xavier. All bringing in multiple 4* kids THIS class. And we have Phipps. We'll see how 2021 goes, but while Cortez is currently a 4*, we're not really in front for any other 4* kids, in what needs to be a big/good class for our program.

I got a little off track here, but I was attempting to show some schools that I don't believe are cheating, that are handing us our butts in recruiting. Didn't even mention aTm who had a 4* in the 2020 class and appears to have stolen two of our top targets in the 2021 class, both 4* kids.
Auburn, Baylor, Alabama shouldn’t be your examples, probably not Arky either. Hill & Vic were 4* almost everywhere else, Vic was higher until he missed his senior year.

Obaseki was a big loss. OU is on 2-3 high profile players, no idea who they’ll end up with though. I love recruiting but you still have to wait until they get on campus to see what they’re all about.
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Old 05-05-2020, 10:37 PM   #63
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lmao

How many teams have finished 4 games under .500 in their conference and made the tournament? I think the answer is 2 or 3, and we were one of them.

It's okay that we have different standards. Some of us just want more.
Ha yes clearly you are a superior fan who wants more.

It would be one thing if we only made the tournament once every three or four years, and made it by the skin of our teeth at that. But that’s not reality. The vast majority of years under Lon, we have made it comfortably. Two years, we were closer to the bubble than anyone would prefer in the sense that IF we had one or two fewer wins, we MAY not have made it. But even in those years, by the time Selection Sunday came around, there was zero doubt we were in.

As BC and Sky and others have noted, those of you who lead the charge against Lon point to two things over and over: conference record, and your claims about fictional scenarios, namely, if we had lost two more games than we actually did. So sure, in an alternate universe in which noncon doesn’t exist or matter, we’d be in trouble. Then again, IF we had WON two more games in each of those seasons you cite, we would have been a pretty decent seed. But we didn’t win those extra games, so it would be ridiculous for us to talk about that, just like it is silly for you to keep talking about the opposite scenario.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:29 AM   #64
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Consistently "good" is more important at OU than making a run every now and then. OU hasn't been consistently good, there is nothing more to that. Sneaking into the NCAA Tournament (and we were on the bubble again this year) isn't consistently good at OU. Not being anywhere close in the Big 12 championship race isn't acceptable at OU either.

The other thing is the product on the floor.... It's easy to spot a good team, and it's easy to spot a bad team. OU has been right on the line way too often. Coming down to where barely making the NCAA Tournament comes down to a single game. That has happened for Lon, but that result isn't making most people happy... You guys turn around and say "hey look, we made the dance again, why aren't you thrilled?".... But when the team made it on a last-second shot in one game, or in the other seasons any ONE OR TWO games keep you out, it's too close. It's not good basketball.

Lon has had an NIT-quality team that snuck into the NCAA Tournament in 2017, in 2018, maybe in 2019 (season ended early), and of course the 2016 team won 11 games.

OU looks all but certain to be in that same situation again this year... and then Reaves, Manek, Kur, and Alondes are gone and OU is replacing lots of question marks all over again for the next year.

OU is taking on water.... You either just don't see that, or don't want to see that. You keep focusing on the "hey, we made the NCAA Tournament" argument without acknowledging that in 2017, 2018, and 2019 it's likely that one additional loss keeps OU out. Been in that "last 4 in" scenario 3 years in a row, with the year before that being the 11 win season. There is context to this.



Nobody cares about that.



Yes he does.
this is a terrible take ..
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:44 AM   #65
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Well that’s dumb. I care about that, NCAA selection cares about that.

OU wasn’t last 4 in any year.

If you make the tournament as an at large you are a top 45 team. 7/8 years OU is a top 45 team & better than over half of P5 teams 7/8 years. Name the other non Blue Blood teams that has done that?

If LK starts missing the tournament or gets the program on probation then there’s no criteria based on past OU success that should warrant his departure.
I mean, come on.... When we look back on the glory days of OU basketball, do you honestly remember how OU did in the non-conference? You are clinging to probably the least important, and certainly least memorable metric there is.

OU beat a 15-16 Minnesota team, an 18-13 Oregon State team who was 7-11 in the Pac-12, and a 15-16 Missouri team.... You honestly care about that? The other teams were UCF (by 1), North Texas (by 2), William and Mary (by 5), University of Texas at Rio Grande Valley, University of Texas at San Antonio, Maryland Eastern Shore (who was 5-27).... That's it. The others were losses.

You honestly think thats a big deal?

Nobody will even remember who we played in the non-conference a year after its done... People talk about how you did in your league, what your total record was, what seed you got in the NCAA tournament, some awesome player you had, how you did against your rivals... But nobody is going to be like, "man, wasn't it awesome how we beat Minnesota, Oregon State, and Missouri? That really made my year! What a great season we had!"
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:48 AM   #66
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I mean, come on.... When we look back on the glory days of OU basketball, do you honestly remember how OU did in the non-conference? You are clinging to probably the least important, and certainly least memorable metric there is.

OU beat a 15-16 Minnesota team, an 18-13 Oregon State team who was 7-11 in the Pac-12, and a 15-16 Missouri team.... You honestly care about that? The other teams were UCF (by 1), North Texas (by 2), William and Mary (by 5), University of Texas at Rio Grande Valley, University of Texas at San Antonio, Maryland Eastern Shore (who was 5-27).... That's it. The others were losses.

You honestly think thats a big deal?

Nobody will even remember who we played in the non-conference a year after its done... People talk about how you did in your league, what your total record was, what seed you got in the NCAA tournament, some awesome player you had, how you did against your rivals... But nobody is going to be like, "man, wasn't it awesome how we beat Minnesota, Oregon State, and Missouri? That really made my year! What a great season we had!"
Exactly. Our OOC isn't what carried the strength of our schedule. And our record against OOC teams that were good, wasn't overly impressive. But we get wins against teams we should be beating, and it makes OOC look good. I've always thought conference play tells you a lot more about the team you have. Those are your peers. The teams with the same recruiting limitations or benefits. The teams that are tougher to prepare for b/c you play them twice every year. MUCH more telling then playing an OOC schedule against teams ranked all over the place.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:24 AM   #67
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I mean, come on.... When we look back on the glory days of OU basketball, do you honestly remember how OU did in the non-conference? You are clinging to probably the least important, and certainly least memorable metric there is.

OU beat a 15-16 Minnesota team, an 18-13 Oregon State team who was 7-11 in the Pac-12, and a 15-16 Missouri team.... You honestly care about that? The other teams were UCF (by 1), North Texas (by 2), William and Mary (by 5), University of Texas at Rio Grande Valley, University of Texas at San Antonio, Maryland Eastern Shore (who was 5-27).... That's it. The others were losses.

You honestly think thats a big deal?

Nobody will even remember who we played in the non-conference a year after its done... People talk about how you did in your league, what your total record was, what seed you got in the NCAA tournament, some awesome player you had, how you did against your rivals... But nobody is going to be like, "man, wasn't it awesome how we beat Minnesota, Oregon State, and Missouri? That really made my year! What a great season we had!"
Yes I think having the season OU had with the 13th toughest sos means something. Sorry you don’t care about 1/2 of the season.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:25 AM   #68
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Exactly. Our OOC isn't what carried the strength of our schedule. And our record against OOC teams that were good, wasn't overly impressive. But we get wins against teams we should be beating, and it makes OOC look good. I've always thought conference play tells you a lot more about the team you have. Those are your peers. The teams with the same recruiting limitations or benefits. The teams that are tougher to prepare for b/c you play them twice every year. MUCH more telling then playing an OOC schedule against teams ranked all over the place.
Ok well OU was 3rd against their peers.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:41 AM   #69
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Ok well OU was 3rd against their peers.
No. OU was tied for third with a few other teams. The convoluted tie breaker doesn't equate to OU being the third best team. Were we going to have the 3rd best seed in the Dance? lol, no.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:48 AM   #70
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No. OU was tied for third with a few other teams. The convoluted tie breaker doesn't equate to OU being the third best team. Were we going to have the 3rd best seed in the Dance? lol, no.
They were going to have the 3 seed in the conference tournament.

Now it’s the 3rd seed in the Dance? What are you even talking about? Stick to an argument.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:54 AM   #71
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They were going to have the 3 seed in the conference tournament.

Now it’s the 3rd seed in the Dance? What are you even talking about? Stick to an argument.
Not hard to understand.

Some weird multi-team tie breaker says less about OU's standing in the league than the seed we were going to get in the Dance. Five other teams from the Big 12 were going to have significantly better seeds than we were. FIVE.
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:12 AM   #72
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Not hard to understand.

Some weird multi-team tie breaker says less about OU's standing in the league than the seed we were going to get in the Dance. Five other teams from the Big 12 were going to have significantly better seeds than we were. FIVE.
Three were. THREE.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:21 PM   #73
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Yes I think having the season OU had with the 13th toughest sos means something. Sorry you don’t care about 1/2 of the season.
I listed out the accomplishments in the non-con... Tell me why you care about that in the grand scheme of things. I honestly don't get it.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:33 PM   #74
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I listed out the accomplishments in the non-con... Tell me why you care about that in the grand scheme of things. I honestly don't get it.
I care about the whole season. If OU finishes top 3 in conference but misses the tournament, that is worse than 6th or 7th in conference & making the tournament.
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Old 05-06-2020, 01:15 PM   #75
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I listed out the accomplishments in the non-con... Tell me why you care about that in the grand scheme of things. I honestly don't get it.
Because the purpose of sports is winning. And in college basketball in particular, the purpose of the regular season is to win enough games against a good enough schedule to make the tournament. You are not a stupid person, so there is no way this legitimately confuses you.

Quick, what was the Washington Nationals record within the NL East last season? Because clearly those 76 games matter and the other 86 don’t ... so why would anyone care how they did in those games? Oh, wait, you mean all 162 count the same and have equal value in determining who makes the postseason?
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