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Old 01-10-2019, 09:20 PM   #51
sybarite
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

I mentioned some once-great programs: Texas Tech, Colorado, Kansas State. If you go back, USC was a national power that won some titles. Purdue was a power.

Why aren't these programs still great if it is just a matter of replacing a coach? Texas got GG from Duke. Nichts. OU has had exactly one successful coach of women's basketball. Is it that easy to replace her?

She has as many final four appearances at OU as Tubbs, Sampson, and Kruger combined.

Have you given any thought as to where those recruits are coming from?
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:25 PM   #52
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

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I mentioned some once-great programs: Texas Tech, Colorado, Kansas State. If you go back, USC was a national power that won some titles. Purdue was a power.

Why aren't these programs still great if it is just a matter of replacing a coach? Texas got GG from Duke. Nichts. OU has had exactly one successful coach of women's basketball. Is it that easy to replace her?

She has as many final four appearances at OU as Tubbs, Sampson, and Kruger combined.

Have you given any thought as to where those recruits are coming from?
What recruits are you thinking of?
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:38 AM   #53
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

Basically, the better recruits. Oklahoma doesn't produce more than a couple of D-1 prospects of quality per year. You need other sources. What is the reason that these recruits will be attracted to you?
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:58 AM   #54
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

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Basically, the better recruits. Oklahoma doesn't produce more than a couple of D-1 prospects of quality per year. You need other sources. What is the reason that these recruits will be attracted to you?
OU because of its state population and the competitive athletes concentration in competitor's regions has always had difficulties recruiting in all sports relative to its peer schools i.e. Texas, A&M, Ohio State, LSU, Alabama, Georgia, FSU, USC in football, Alabama, Florida, FSU, Oregon, UCLA, Cal, LSU and Washington in softball and Florida, UCLA, LSU, Alabama and Georgia in women's gymnastics and Stanford, Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State in men's gymnastics, etc.

If you look at historical national performance in all the sports it is a concentration of a few schools that continually dominate the final standing, the super six, the WCWS, CWS and Final Fours/Elite Eights. Once in that top eschelon given there is coaching, money, history and facilities most programs are capable of sustaining that traditional success.

Sherri did so for a decade dominating the Big 12, Baylor and Texas ending in 2010. OU's still has the history, the money and the facilities to compete for the very best players but that talent has been missing for nearly another decade. Unfortunately Sherri has let the program slide and instead of competing for championships she is fighting to make the tournament as a lower seed. That is a progessive transition in the wrong direction. OU is fully capable of attracting talent on a national basis that will allow them to compete annually for the Big 12 conference championships. Asking OU to again be a national power is asking to much. But any argument that you cannot adequate talent to come to Norman to win the Big 12 is poppycock.

Chris Beard under more difficult circumstances than Sherri has was hired as the basketball coach at Texas Tech for the 2016 season and he has recruited and developed talent to the point that he has a top ten team that has beaten Kansas in the Phog and will push the hawks for the conference title this year. Amazing what you can do with attitude and effort.

Mark Williams, KJ Kindler, Patty Gasso, Bob Stoops, Lincoln Riley, John Roddick are Ryan Hybil are or were (Stoops & Roddick) able to successfully recruit top talent to Norman. They all did so with the same location disadvantages Sherri has except for the reputation they have created and maintained for themselves along with working their tails off for their talent.

Expecting Sherri's teams to compete at the same level of the football, softball, men's tennis, men's golf, the gymnastics teams or maybe any of the 9 sports that have won a conference championship since Sherri last won one may be asking too much. But to think that she could be a serious contender annually for conference honors and win 35-45% of her games against her chief conference rivals is not asking too much.

If the Sooners are still floundering like they are now in the 2021 season it is time for Sherri to be gone. She will have had 11 seasons to have made her team something more than barely qualifying for the tournament. She set the standard. She needs to live up to it. She is definitely compensated to do such.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:58 AM   #55
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I am actually asking for ideas. I see constant complaints, have seen them for several years. We still have people show up and claim that the program went downhill when we lost Bo Overton, as though women couldn't coach.

I want to see a complete program with reasons for its success. I want to know how you replace the fact that there has never been a real program at OU that wasn't totally dependent on Sherri for everything. You have to replace her fan base, marketing ability. You're going to have to show some reason for recruits to come to OU, especially if you don't have a Hall of Fame Coach.

Think and address all of the aspects.
1. It's not that women cannot coach. Having men, women, grad assistants and experienced assistant coaches gives the coaching staff balance. You are dealing with all types of personalities and skill levels in the student-athletes and it helps when the coaching staff has roles to support and develop the team. Bo Overton initiated the contact and interest with E. Arriaran (class of 2005) from southern California and she ultimately told her club teammates (A. Paris and C. Paris) to consider talking to him. She went to the longhorns and OU still landed the twins. Overton initiated the contact and Stacy Hansmeyer took over the recruiting in California. Neither are with OU anymore. They must have known how to recruit effectively!

2. It's time for a new HC...if winning on a consistent basis is a priority for the program. When was the last time we heard SC say, "Winning the National Championship is our goal every year!". IMHO, I believe SC should remain with the university focusing on marketing and community engagement, such as Jodie Conradt with the longhorns. If she's given any management control over WBB, she'll still run it the same or micro manage.

3. Hmmm...she was not in the HOF when S. Dales, A. Paris, C. Paris, A. Olajuwon, D. Robinson, A. Thompson...or any other top 25 recruits arrived. So it's possible. Many coaches are able to recruit top 1-25 players without a HOF title. She has the title and who is she signing? IJS

And...

4. Look at the former players that are assistants on successful teams...A. Olajuwon and B. Brown (TCU...same conference), D. Jackson (MS State). How come they are not at OU? I forgot...Colton Coale got that job.

5. What makes us think that any top player wants to play for SC? I remember looking at the soonersports.com snippets when they honored C. Paris' jersey. How is it that Jan Ross is nearly in tears, SC's BROTHER is so excited (I thought he was about to announce that the twins have more eligibility and are returning), their teammates speak highly...but SC was nowhere to be found in the videos other than during a game after the really good teams of those years went out there and busted their butts for her to be able to climb the ladder to cut the net.

http://www.soonersports.com/fls/3100...CP3/index.html

PS...I watched these snippets again. It appears the current team is made up of some really good high school players who want to become better and do the very best they can. But I don't see the passion in their eyes, I don't see the drive, I don't see their competitive expressions and non-verbal communication on the court...that the teams had back in the day. If OU could put another one of those good old fashioned whoopins on the longhorns and bears again so that I could see Mulkey's face in despair...I would buy five sets of season tickets and return to supporting the program. OK...I woke up from that dream.

#boomer

Last edited by Soonerbay; 01-11-2019 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:31 AM   #56
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

I don't buy location as a major reason for good or bad recruiting. The elite player want to play for a winning program and usually location is not an issue. Most of them play travel ball all over the country while in high school and I suspect that the additional exposure to unfamiliar places makes location a lesser issue.

Gasso gets almost anyone in California that she wants. Kindler gets recruits from Illinois and Minnesota and other places. Football gets players from anywhere. It is the quality of the coaching and the program that attracts good players. Who would want to go to central Mississippi, Columbia, South Carolina or Waco for any other reason. Downtown Hartford where the Huskies play a lot of home games looks like a war zone.

I have always considered Norman a nice place to be. Without other obligations it would be one of my favorite places to live. Nice small town atmosphere with a large city close by.
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #57
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

At least, we have some legitimate discussion. Appreciate the well-thought out responses, spock and NC. Let me correct what I think is a misimpression.

Not long after I got out of the Army, I was in graduate school in Norman. My best man, a black man from Maryland, sent his little brother to me to guide through OU. He lived in the dorms. I was in an apartment. We had met in Baltimore. But, I was not close to him, only to his brother. Still am.

He came to me at least once per week to report on how things were going. I helped guide him to resources. The one thing I had no information about was the night life in Norman for blacks. He made some friends and got into it on his own. It helped that he was quite intelligent and handsome. Daddy had been career Navy, retiring in Annapolis.

After one semester, he came to me and expressed appreciation for my help getting his feet on the ground in college. But, he said he was transferring back east. His statements about Norman were gentle. It was a nice little town. People were friendly. But, he had never been in a "town so white" in his life. There was nothing for the young black in Norman, barely anything in OKC.

I've had more than one person state that. "Oklahoma is the whitest place I have ever been." When you are white, you don't notice this. When you are black, you notice a sense of loneliness. I found this out when my best man used to drag me to all black parties and strand me. Some black guys didn't like me talking to their girlfriends. Some black girls didn't like talking to a white guy who knows nothing about being black.

Oklahoma isn't exactly the ideal community unless you are a southern white. Most blacks who come to Norman don't stay there permanently. All of my black colleagues moved elsewhere to retire. All of them. Not one remained in Oklahoma. None. Nada.

If you are a young football player, this is not that difficult to recruit to. They don't really care. They are there to play football, to get a start on a pro career. Besides, Wilkinson and Switzer gave the football program a boost by being the first in the area to admit blacks, then to be dominantly black, including at QB. We had black football players ten years before Texas. It gave us a leg up among the various black highschool coaches and administrators. They had alternatives to the Big Ten or the black colleges. But, they don't stick around either.

The people that you recruit to do gymnastics are usually from fairly wealthy suburban white neighborhoods. Soccer is somewhat the same way. I don't know why, but softball has a similar experience. Sixty percent of the team is not black. Different sports have different recruiting targets. You won't find many kids whose parents put $100,000 into their kid's training by very expensive gyms in the ghettos. How many of these even remain in Oklahoma?

Now, are you sure you know where you will be recruiting basketball players. We don't get many out of the white suburbs of Dallas or Chicago.

Oklahoma hasn't exactly endeared itself to women across the nation. Look at the state's policies. Look at the fact that no other school has had their program closed.

There are a lot of problems that need to be considered. Are you sure you have thought them through?
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:12 PM   #58
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

Syb, your worry about blacks having a local social life may have been relevant in the 50's and 60's, but things change. Prospects from Oklahoma aren't bothered, and we haven't done a good job recruiting them. Prospects from Texas the same.
I am not a SC hater, or even anti, but I can see the lack of quality recruits from a few years ago hurting this years team from lack of experience, and lack of size. Coaches have to own their failures, as well as their successes. We also have had teams that lacked the ability to play hard, and that could be a failure to evaluate players or to motivate them. But the blame has to fall to coaching/recruiting when it happens year after year.
I agree with you that some of the criticism of our coaches may be overdone, but they certainly deserve some criticism for the lack of improvement over a long period. There is an old adage, the proof is in the pudding. Ours has been weak.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:35 PM   #59
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

Kind of have that backwards. We were OK in the fifties and sixties. Wilkinson invited Gautt in 57. I think Texas had their first in 68 or 69. We weren't largely black in the early sixties, but we were bringing in some. The SWC had its first in 68 (I think) at SMU.

Switer helped OU because he was able to communicate with the black community, having grown up among them. In fact, half the reason Royal hated him was that he could out-recruit Royal, largely based on race. When we had the year in which we got like 12 of the top 18 in Texas, most of them were black. We, essentially, had problems that caused us to fire Switzer which removed some of the good rapport that he had built.

The problem is that OU and Oklahoma have actually gotten worse since the Switzer years.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:59 PM   #60
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I attend lots of High School games in the DFW area and try to watch players that are nationally ranked. As I have previously stated there have been only a few times in the last 8 to 10 years that I have seen a member of the OU coaching staff in attendance. Odyssey Sims, Alexis Jones and now Sara Andrews all from Irving MacArthur and no OU coaches. Only rarely do I see them at Duncanville, Cedar Hill, Lincoln, Madison, the Plano schools, Flower Mound, Allen, Dunbar, Argyle, Argyle Christian, Prestonwood Baptist and others. In the last 10 years these above high schools alone have sent over 35 players to major Division One Schools. The annual list of girls in the entire DFW area signing with various Colleges is 50 to 60 with about half being with Division One schools. This is always in the Dallas Morning News.

I do see coaches from UConn, Notre Dame, USC, UCLA, Louisville, Stanford, most of the Big 12 and SEC schools. It is no surprise that Texas A&M, Texas and of course Baylor are everywhere recruiting in this area. The Oklahoma State coaches are frequent observers as well.

Where are the Sooners? If we get the three best players in Oklahoma every year we are nowhere. I takes me three hours to drive to Norman from north Dallas. It should be the same for our staff to come here. It seems almost every year 10 to 15 of the Top 100 players are in Texas, why not place an emphasis on recruiting Texas? If we got just two of the top 10 to 15 players from Texas most years we would be much better off.

I don’t want SC fired or to cut her pay, just hire two aggressive assistant coaches, that’s what Baylor did 6 years ago, so did Texas. Hiring her son was not SC at her best, not well thought out. I don’t want a new head coach, just two new assistants with big personalities that are motivated.

Our focus should also be on Kansas City and other metro areas where girls basketball is big and not too far away in driving distance.

I’m not interested in OU football, history, or other weak excuses for lack of recent success. As someone in the locker room for 4 years, there were no problems with players from different backgrounds. My teams were good, but not great, we overachieved, but that was because of SC. SC sold me and I never regretted going to OU, she is a terrific person, I love her. However, there needs to be a substantial change in recruiting, now, for the future of the program. Our freshman may have some promise, but to be really competitive in the Big 12 we need to improve much more.

As a former player I am not happy with the current status of our program, are you?

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Old 01-11-2019, 09:09 PM   #61
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

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I attend lots of High School games in the DFW area and try to watch players that are nationally ranked. As I have previously stated there have been only a few times in the last 8 to 10 years that I have seen a member of the OU coaching staff in attendance. Odyssey Sims, Alexis Jones and now Sara Andrews all from Irving MacArthur and no OU coaches. Only rarely do I see them at Duncanville, Cedar Hill, Lincoln, Madison, the Plano schools, Flower Mound, Allen, Dunbar, Argyle, Argyle Christian, Prestonwood Baptist and others. In the last 10 years these above high schools alone have sent over 35 players to major Division One Schools. The annual list of girls in the entire DFW area signing with various Colleges is 50 to 60 with about half being with Division One schools. This is always in the Dallas Morning News.

I do see coaches from UConn, Notre Dame, USC, UCLA, Louisville, Stanford, most of the Big 12 and SEC schools. It is no surprise that Texas A&M, Texas and of course Baylor are everywhere recruiting in this area. The Oklahoma State coaches are frequent observers as well.

Where are the Sooners? If we get the three best players in Oklahoma every year we are nowhere. I takes me three hours to drive to Norman from north Dallas. It should be the same for our staff to come here. It seems almost every year 10 to 15 of the Top 100 players are in Texas, why not place an emphasis on recruiting Texas? If we got just two of the top 10 to 15 players from Texas most years we would be much better off.

I donít want SC fired or to cut her pay, just hire two aggressive assistant coaches, thatís what Baylor did 6 years ago, so did Texas. Hiring her son was not SC at her best, not well thought out. I donít want a new head coach, just two new assistants with big personalities that are motivated.

Our focus should also be on Kansas City and other metro areas where girls basketball is big and not too far away in driving distance.

Iím not interested in OU football, history, or other weak excuses for lack of recent success. As someone in the locker room for 4 years, there were no problems with players from different backgrounds. My teams were good, but not great, we overachieved, but that was because of SC. SC sold me and I never regretted going to OU, she is a terrific person, I love her. However, there needs to be a substantial change in recruiting, now, for the future of the program. Our freshman may have some promise, but to be really competitive in the Big 12 we need to improve much more.

As a former player I am not happy with the current status of our program, are you?
Thanks 66 itís nice to hear from someone who actually knows, that lived the basketball life at OU and under SC. Many of us have been saying this and itís nice to get confirmation from someone inside rather than someone just sitting behind a computer typing their opinions that are a pure Guess.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:34 PM   #62
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Thanks 66 it’s nice to hear from someone who actually knows, that lived the basketball life at OU and under SC. Many of us have been saying this and it’s nice to get confirmation from someone inside rather than someone just sitting behind a computer typing their opinions that are a pure Guess.
Ditto
Appreciate everyones input. Their are decent players out there but you have to work for them, and OU appears to be lax in doing that
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:12 PM   #63
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I attend lots of High School games in the DFW area and try to watch players that are nationally ranked. As I have previously stated there have been only a few times in the last 8 to 10 years that I have seen a member of the OU coaching staff in attendance. Odyssey Sims, Alexis Jones and now Sara Andrews all from Irving MacArthur and no OU coaches. Only rarely do I see them at Duncanville, Cedar Hill, Lincoln, Madison, the Plano schools, Flower Mound, Allen, Dunbar, Argyle, Argyle Christian, Prestonwood Baptist and others. In the last 10 years these above high schools alone have sent over 35 players to major Division One Schools. The annual list of girls in the entire DFW area signing with various Colleges is 50 to 60 with about half being with Division One schools. This is always in the Dallas Morning News.

I do see coaches from UConn, Notre Dame, USC, UCLA, Louisville, Stanford, most of the Big 12 and SEC schools. It is no surprise that Texas A&M, Texas and of course Baylor are everywhere recruiting in this area. The Oklahoma State coaches are frequent observers as well.

Where are the Sooners? If we get the three best players in Oklahoma every year we are nowhere. I takes me three hours to drive to Norman from north Dallas. It should be the same for our staff to come here. It seems almost every year 10 to 15 of the Top 100 players are in Texas, why not place an emphasis on recruiting Texas? If we got just two of the top 10 to 15 players from Texas most years we would be much better off.

I donít want SC fired or to cut her pay, just hire two aggressive assistant coaches, thatís what Baylor did 6 years ago, so did Texas. Hiring her son was not SC at her best, not well thought out. I donít want a new head coach, just two new assistants with big personalities that are motivated.

Our focus should also be on Kansas City and other metro areas where girls basketball is big and not too far away in driving distance.

Iím not interested in OU football, history, or other weak excuses for lack of recent success. As someone in the locker room for 4 years, there were no problems with players from different backgrounds. My teams were good, but not great, we overachieved, but that was because of SC. SC sold me and I never regretted going to OU, she is a terrific person, I love her. However, there needs to be a substantial change in recruiting, now, for the future of the program. Our freshman may have some promise, but to be really competitive in the Big 12 we need to improve much more.

As a former player I am not happy with the current status of our program, are you?
Then, you are aware that OU has had two players each from Argyle Christian and Plano in recent years. We do have a freshman from Fort Worth.

Until very recently, DFW had not had a history of producing good players. Get a lot of highly-touted players. The top players would have included Odyssey. But, the other really highly-successful player didn't even attend school in DFW, but was home-schooled in Glenn Heights before she went to UConn and led them to four titles.

Texas and Baylor are getting a lot of good talent out of DFW. OU may have gotten the best this year with Madi Williams. But, this year, OU went back to the Houston area for Liz Scott. Tatum Veitenheimer is from the DFW area, if you stretch it a bit.

I don't know exactly what is going on in DFW. About three or four years ago, two kids about 6-9, 6-10 showed up in Lancaster and Plano, never having been to HS. Apparently, they were prep school products. Each played one year. I think both teams won their respective state championships. But, I had never heard any of the local kids mention the kid in Lancaster, and I knew the coach. I think some of that is going on in women's basketball. I don't know if Sherri wants in on that type of stuff.

About the time that OU quit being competitive for the Final Four, Jan Ross had breast cancer. Do you think there was any connection or effect on the program? Close friends. Are they not? The partnership on which the program was built suddenly had a major problem. Any comment?

The fact that the players get along in the dressing room is not the point. The point is that the reputation of Oklahoma has been declining as a state, and it is quite white. You would like to be able to attract from Chicago Whitney Young again. We have completely missed out when recruiting against the big city ghetto prospects that we have recruited in recent years.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:57 AM   #64
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

Sherri's personal recruiting profile restricts her success with big city ghetto prospects much more than any racial issue. Today about 200 athletes or 1/3 of all athletes (walk-ons and scholarship players) in the 18 sports at OU are black athletes that are primarily from the ghetto.

With the hours necesssarily committed to the game by student-athletes their social life is primarily with fellow student-athletes. This "too white" Norman circumstance for black athletes is totally different than the mid-sixties when the black student-athlete comprised less than 5% of the athletes on campus.

Also the inter-racial social activity among students is the norm today instead being frowned upon like it was 50 years ago. Furthermore there is a 100K Afro-American population base 30 minutes from campus. Not recruiting blacks is not an issue it is an excuse. Your forte!
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:40 AM   #65
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Sherri's personal recruiting profile restricts her success with big city ghetto prospects much more than any racial issue. Today about 200 athletes or 1/3 of all athletes (walk-ons and scholarship players) in the 18 sports at OU are black athletes that are primarily from the ghetto.

With the hours necesssarily committed to the game by student-athletes their social life is primarily with fellow student-athletes. This "too white" Norman circumstance for black athletes is totally different than the mid-sixties when the black student-athlete comprised less than 5% of the athletes on campus.

Also the inter-racial social activity among students is the norm today instead being frowned upon like it was 50 years ago. Furthermore there is a 100K Afro-American population base 30 minutes from campus. Not recruiting blacks is not an issue it is an excuse. Your forte!
At some point, you have to understand that the basketball recruit is not the same as in other sports.

The gymnastics recruits tend to be from the Plano area or the northern suburbs. You don't see them at South Oak Cliff. Highland Park is a strong contender for the golf and soccer titles, as is Ursuline. I don't even think Lancaster, a basketball power, has a golf or soccer team, unless it is recent. Different sports are emphasized in different neighborhoods.

The young man that I brought it was not in the fifties or sixties. He was from 71 or 72. The only social life was in OKC, and that was limited.

The difficulty isn''t in dealing with the kids when they get here. Young people are more multicultural than we were. It is in getting the right kind of image to attract them. Oklahoma doesn't exactly have the greatest image right now. It is constantly cutting money for education. It's leaders are not known for being multiculltural. Had we not had Sherri, what would our attraction have been? We don't exactly attract world-beaters in men's basketball either. The last time I can remember being in the game for a really highly-rated non-Oklahoma player was Shaq, and that was some time ago.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:53 AM   #66
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

I think there is the impression that I am totally in Sherri's corner. I am not particularly happy with the fact that we are not challenging for Elite Eight. I don't know that blame is that easily directed.

We don't have the drawing power of a Duke, UConn, or Stanford, although I notice Duke has fallen off a lot. We just can't attract two McDonald's All-Americans per year. It really hurts when our star player tears two ACLs, as happened to both Whitney Hand and Maddie Manning. It doesn't help to lose our post to an Achilles tear. We lose two supposedly good recruits, one entire class, in Mulkey and Dungee. We don't have the numbers to be able to tolerate this and succeed. UConn lost its would-be superstar to Delaware and went on to win four titles without her. She showed in the pros how good she was. We need for everything to work to get in the top eight.

I really suspect that Jan Ross's illness had a lot more effect than has been discussed. They were best friends and built a program together. That had to have some effect.

I like what I see of the youngsters. The three sophs and six freshmen have been about as predicted. It would have been great to have had a couple of seniors around to provide stability. But, Sherri said this year's team learns faster and adapts faster than last year's team.

I'm looking forward to having Scott, Madi Williams, Ana, Taylor, Shaina, Tatum, and Gabby fighting for time. Chloe, Mandy, and Nydia will probably fight to see who starts. I just hope that Shaina doesn't get disillusioned while learning. I think Jessi will be in the mix. Aspen? With the exception of Chloe, we won't have any real height. But, we will have some competitors under the boards and a lot of talent.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:24 AM   #67
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

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At some point, you have to understand that the basketball recruit is not the same as in other sports.

The gymnastics recruits tend to be from the Plano area or the northern suburbs. You don't see them at South Oak Cliff. Highland Park is a strong contender for the golf and soccer titles, as is Ursuline. I don't even think Lancaster, a basketball power, has a golf or soccer team, unless it is recent. Different sports are emphasized in different neighborhoods.

The young man that I brought it was not in the fifties or sixties. He was from 71 or 72. The only social life was in OKC, and that was limited.

The difficulty isn''t in dealing with the kids when they get here. Young people are more multicultural than we were. It is in getting the right kind of image to attract them. Oklahoma doesn't exactly have the greatest image right now. It is constantly cutting money for education. It's leaders are not known for being multiculltural. Had we not had Sherri, what would our attraction have been? We don't exactly attract world-beaters in men's basketball either. The last time I can remember being in the game for a really highly-rated non-Oklahoma player was Shaq, and that was some time ago.
Oklahoma does not have the right image in your opinion. From years of posting on this board we know you often like to force a square peg into a round hole. This is one of those occasions.

I live in Norman after having lived in Philadephia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Kansas City and Ft. Worth where my work often took me into the ghettos frequently. I have very very close contacts to the WBB program, very close contacts to football and not so close with the MBB program. I understand the circumstances surrounding a black student athlete (BSA) coming to Norman. I suspect the time you have spent in Norman and around to OU athletic program the last 15 years is nil.

I can assure you the OU coaching and recruiting staffs of all three programs have a totally different perspective than do you regarding getting BSA prospects to Norman. They consider recruiting to Norman a big positive when targeting ghetto kids. Their history tells them they are correct. Unfortunately Sherri has a prospect profile that eliminates a major portion of the top black student-athletes from consideration by OU. That is a fact.

Once BSA's arrive in Norman they tend to stay not abandon ship because Norman is too white. You did note that the three programs that I get some inside information from are also the three programs most focused on recruiting the BSA.

Your problem is you loser mentality. Athletes are competitors with a winners mentality. Coaches must be as well. They do not look at the circumstances and make excuses for their failures as you do for Sherri. They look at the circumstances and see the opportunities for their success.

Sherri and recently fired Mike Stoops don't/didn't appear to be manifesting the attributes that promote winning and winning big. Mike had difficulties for 3 years and he is gone. Sherri has had difficulties for 8 years and we are still giving her the opportunity to fix it. Time is running short be it 2 or 3 years hence even for a HOF coach.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:29 AM   #68
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Oregon, Oregon State, Louisville, Mississippi State, and South Carolina didn't have the drawing power until recently. Also if you go back, Connecticut and Baylor didn't until Geno and Mulkey arrived. We used to handle Stanford consistently but they have been much stronger than we for some time now.

I watch a lot of womens basketball. I think they play a more fundamental game and most are not just auditioning for a pro career. Stanford and Oregon State sets more screens in a quarter than OU does in a season and they both win without the big super-star. And Oregon State is beginning to attract the better players. Possibly their best player (Slocum) is a transfer.

Until the post from the young lady in Texas I had little or no feel for OU recruiting. OU women's basketball recruiting is the best kept secret since the Manhattan Project (development of the A Bomb during WWII). We seem to be doing better the last two years but we possibly face the next season again without the size inside we need to compete. Hopefully I am wrong.

I am excited about our young players. Hate to see the difficulties that Ana and Pellington are experiencing.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:13 AM   #69
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At some point OU's new cost-conscious president, who's already fired scores of administrators down to landscaping people, is going to begin looking at the Athletic Department.

And when he does, Sherri Coale's program is not going to fair well under that microscope. The new prez is a bottom-dollar kind of guy and even though the athletic department is self-funding, he will eventually look at the department's savings account and operating budgets to see where he can grab some money -- and the regents will let him.

He thinks OU is in financial trouble. Whether it is or not is above my pay grade. I know it wastes tons of money and its financial operating system is a mess of unparalleled magnitude.

When the look comes, what the G-Man will see is a HOF coach and a stagnant staff whose outcomes have slipped far, far from the high goals and standards they initially set. He will see a program losing millions and attendance is crap. He will see the OUWBB recent history MAY have played a sliver of a part in the recent arena project defeat etc., etc. HE WON'T CARE about record or who is in the HOF and who isn't.

He isn't going to stand for that kind of loss/disaster.

When he does move forward with a greedy eye, in a year or so probably, Sherri better hope she has created a new juggernaut -- or she's going to get fired or reassigned (reassigned is far, far more likely).

Does that mean Joe C. will be gone too? Possibly.

Sherri hasn't produced in nearly a decade. She has a base salary of at least $1.1 million plus perks and incentives. SO...she's probably has a chance to earn $1.4 to $1.75 million per year.

If you can't get motivated for that, plus your stated desire to build better people (which Sherri is certainly doing), then it's time to retire or get fired.

The bottom line is this:

THE CHICKENS HAVE STARTED THEIR WAY HOME TO ROOST.

Sherri better produce PDQ-- within three two or three years counting this season. I don't care what her record was or is. I don't care that she's the youngest coach in the HOF. I don't care that she's a Christian and takes her team to Haiti every year.

If an employee, no matter how beloved, isn't reaching the goals they and their bosses have set, then eventually they get ousted. That always happens.

Just ask Pat Summit.

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Old 01-12-2019, 11:19 AM   #70
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...and let me add this Joe C. and everyone loves Sherri, reportedly. Seems like with good cause.

Having met and chit-chatted with her a tiny bit, she's always seemed amazingly friendly, smart and extremely decent.

But the those same people who love Sherri also loved Mike Stoops. Until they didn't.

Mike is a nearly a somewhat good correlation to Sherri -- the only difference being Sherri is the four-star general and Mike was a three-star -- and Sherri doesn't pick her dates from OU's student population and live on four-letter words screamed at the top of her lungs.

Mike is now looking for a job after destroying his own reputation (although his personal behavior added to his downfall almost as much as his work).

While Sherri could probably get another million-dollar-job somewhere if she wanted to, it's isn't going to be as easy now as it would have been a decade ago.

She should keep that in mind, especially if any the whispered decades of talk has even a mangled iota of basis behind it.

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Old 01-12-2019, 11:42 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by SoonerSpock View Post
Oklahoma does not have the right image in your opinion. From years of posting on this board we know you often like to force a square peg into a round hole. This is one of those occasions.

I live in Norman after having lived in Philadephia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Kansas City and Ft. Worth where my work often took me into the ghettos frequently. I have very very close contacts to the WBB program, very close contacts to football and not so close with the MBB program. I understand the circumstances surrounding a black student athlete (BSA) coming to Norman. I suspect the time you have spent in Norman and around to OU athletic program the last 15 years is nil.

.
I lived in Norman, and I loved Norman. I loved Oklahoma. But, let me remind you of something that you ignore.

We see poll after poll that tells us that when asked whether racism has been conquered. Consistently, the white community sees very little, if any, evidence of racism. The black community sees racism as still being a problem.

If you ask about female discomfort in the workplace, the males say that there is no reason for discomfort in the workplace. The females say it is still very prevalent.

You get similar results if you ask about PC. The groups that are irritated by PC are quite different from those who want some curbs.

I kind of have the impression that we have mostly white males writing about how wonderful Oklahoma is and suggesting that there is no reason for racism to be a problem. Wonder why? Whites and blacks don't see it the same way.

My kids went to what is basically an all white HS. Most of the young people I know are black. Very different kids. Very different attitudes. When my kids played the local HS in football, their pep club put up a huge sign: Cash beats trash. Essentially, rich kids beat blacks. The principal did apologize. But, it reflected an attitude that existed in the 90s. Still does. Racism didn't arise on the SAE bus. But, it did reflect an attitude. When exactly was that? In the fifties? Oh, a couple of years ago?

No. Spock. I've been trying to get some recognition that the hole is round. The Generation X and Millennials will confirm it for you.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:14 PM   #72
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Racism is a reality here. believe me, but any racial problems Oklahoma has related to daily life or sports (and it does still have quite a number of major ones), they pale in comparison to what is going on in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia, the Carolinas, Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee and even Texas.

These problems may be less public in California, Connecticut, Oregon or Washington State, but even those states have the same tragic woes. Has anyone ever been to Pullman for crying out loud?

When you come to a place like Alabama, Georgia or Oklahoma -- as an athlete -- you aren't coming for the nightlife or because you like gravy at breakfast.

You come because you want to have the chance, the best chance possible, to play a sport professionally or to get a good education and establish the ties you need to make a good career for yourself, no matter what you do.

That's why kids want to play for OU -- it doesn't matter whether it's gymnastics, softball or golf.

No place is perfect, but even in women's basketball, the best kids want to play for a HOF coach and a program that is winning at the top level -- program where they get noticed and have a chance to make their dreams come true.

OUWBB, right now, is not one of those places and the reason is Sherri Coale and her staff. We were there once, for quite a spell, because of Sherri, but those days are gone and it is highly questionable whether she can ever make the magic happen again -- or is even willing to.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:28 PM   #73
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

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Originally Posted by sybarite View Post
I lived in Norman, and I loved Norman. I loved Oklahoma. But, let me remind you of something that you ignore.

We see poll after poll that tells us that when asked whether racism has been conquered. Consistently, the white community sees very little, if any, evidence of racism. The black community sees racism as still being a problem.

If you ask about female discomfort in the workplace, the males say that there is no reason for discomfort in the workplace. The females say it is still very prevalent.

You get similar results if you ask about PC. The groups that are irritated by PC are quite different from those who want some curbs.

I kind of have the impression that we have mostly white males writing about how wonderful Oklahoma is and suggesting that there is no reason for racism to be a problem. Wonder why? Whites and blacks don't see it the same way.

My kids went to what is basically an all white HS. Most of the young people I know are black. Very different kids. Very different attitudes. When my kids played the local HS in football, their pep club put up a huge sign: Cash beats trash. Essentially, rich kids beat blacks. The principal did apologize. But, it reflected an attitude that existed in the 90s. Still does. Racism didn't arise on the SAE bus. But, it did reflect an attitude. When exactly was that? In the fifties? Oh, a couple of years ago?

No. Spock. I've been trying to get some recognition that the hole is round. The Generation X and Millennials will confirm it for you.
You have hit rock bottom or are nearing there when you have to play the race card as the reason for the decline of SC's basketball program. The fingers are pointed directly at SC and her assistants.
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:00 PM   #74
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

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Originally Posted by sybarite View Post
I lived in Norman, and I loved Norman. I loved Oklahoma. But, let me remind you of something that you ignore.

We see poll after poll that tells us that when asked whether racism has been conquered. Consistently, the white community sees very little, if any, evidence of racism. The black community sees racism as still being a problem.

If you ask about female discomfort in the workplace, the males say that there is no reason for discomfort in the workplace. The females say it is still very prevalent.

You get similar results if you ask about PC. The groups that are irritated by PC are quite different from those who want some curbs.

I kind of have the impression that we have mostly white males writing about how wonderful Oklahoma is and suggesting that there is no reason for racism to be a problem. Wonder why? Whites and blacks don't see it the same way.

My kids went to what is basically an all white HS. Most of the young people I know are black. Very different kids. Very different attitudes. When my kids played the local HS in football, their pep club put up a huge sign: Cash beats trash. Essentially, rich kids beat blacks. The principal did apologize. But, it reflected an attitude that existed in the 90s. Still does. Racism didn't arise on the SAE bus. But, it did reflect an attitude. When exactly was that? In the fifties? Oh, a couple of years ago?

No. Spock. I've been trying to get some recognition that the hole is round. The Generation X and Millennials will confirm it for you.
No problem with Generation X and Millennials. Your oblique perspective is another issue.
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:53 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by SoonerSpock View Post
No problem with Generation X and Millennials. Your oblique perspective is another issue.
I have given you an opportunity to express your ideas in detail in order to see what a coach must bring to the table. Typically, you just basically post your hatred of me and your mantra of Sherri is to blame. Life is simple when you have it so well worked out.
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