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Old 01-20-2017, 10:02 AM   #26
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by schoonerdriver View Post
No one has mentioned any laws. Morals and standard can't be governed with laws alone. Nothing wrong with striving to be good, decent, respectful individual.
You're wrong on the first sentence.

But I agree 1000% that we should all strive to be good, decent, respectful people. I wish more agreed with us.
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:20 AM   #27
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by skyvue View Post
It also would have been nice if Buzz had just once mentioned women. There was a female veteran standing right there among the others being honored and he just kept saying "men."
*facepalm*
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:25 AM   #28
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
*facepalm*
You don't think women who serve in the military are deserving of our respect and gratitude?
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:00 PM   #29
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
In the grand scheme, showing respect before a bball game isn't a big deal....but the underlying principal of respect towards those whom have served is huge.
This.

And it's the intentions. A lot of the people that aren't observing traditional methods of showing respect are knowing doing it for a reason. A reason I consider disrespectful.

These aren't "new ways" of showing respect. They are new ways of trying to bring attention to other matters, during a time where they should be showing respect to the nation. Intent matters.
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by MsProudSooner View Post
What exact law would that be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckb View Post
If you seriously think that there's a law requiring ANY American -- athlete or not -- to salute the flag, say the pledge of allegiance, bow our head, sing the national anthem or anything in any way related to any of those, then someone needs to familiarize you with the 1st Amendment to the Constitution and a high school government class.
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Originally Posted by schoonerdriver View Post
No one has mentioned any laws. Morals and standard can't be governed with laws alone. Nothing wrong with striving to be good, decent, respectful individual.
ahh but there is a Law

Title 36 section 301 of US Code -National anthem (aka the law) ..

(a) Designation -
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
``(A) individuals in uniform should give the
military salute at the first note of the anthem and
maintain that position until the last note;
``(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who
are present but not in uniform may render the military
salute in the manner provided for individuals in
uniform; and
``(C) all other persons present should face the flag
and stand at attention with their right hand over the
heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should
remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it
at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

Note: Part (C) applies to those not in the military and non-veterans. The phrase "men not in uniform" refers to civil service uniforms like police, fire fighters, and letter carriers - non-veteran civil servants who might normally render a salute while in uniform.


I will also note that there is currently no criminal or civil penalty for not following this statute

Last edited by BoulderSooner; 01-20-2017 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:56 PM   #31
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by skyvue View Post
You don't think women who serve in the military are deserving of our respect and gratitude?
I don't think you said anything deserving a "facepalm" or controversial. There are many many women who have served this country just like men. They deserve just as much respect in my opinion. That said, I am sure Buzz wasn't intentionally ignoring them or anything.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by skyvue View Post
You don't think women who serve in the military are deserving of our respect and gratitude?
People use men sometimes when speaking to groups that are predominately men. No disrespect was meant. If it was, he wouldn't have had a woman there to begin with. Of all the things to nitpick on...
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #33
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
ahh but there is a Law

Title 36 section 301 of US Code -National anthem (aka the law) ..

(a) Designation -
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
``(A) individuals in uniform should give the
military salute at the first note of the anthem and
maintain that position until the last note;
``(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who
are present but not in uniform may render the military
salute in the manner provided for individuals in
uniform; and
``(C) all other persons present should face the flag
and stand at attention with their right hand over the
heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should
remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it
at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

Note: Part (C) applies to those not in the military and non-veterans. The phrase "men not in uniform" refers to civil service uniforms like police, fire fighters, and letter carriers - non-veteran civil servants who might normally render a salute while in uniform.


I will also note that there is currently no criminal or civil penalty for not following this statute
i get what you are saying, but this isn't a law
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:27 PM   #34
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by garyeb2 View Post
I am an honorably discharged and decorated combat veteran. I resent other people trying to impose their standard of what patriotism looks like on anyone.
I never thought I would agree with garyeb2 on anything. I, too, am a veteran, although not a combat veteran. I, too, resent other people trying to impose their standards on anyone. Often, this is highly political, and they would object if the flag were used to symbolize something they didn't like.

Meanwhile, boulder, there are no penalties associated with Section 301, likely because they do understand that such penalties would likely be struck down as conflicts with the First Amendment.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:29 PM   #35
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
i get what you are saying, but this isn't a law
it absolutely is a LAW passed and amended by congress and signed into LAW by the President of the United States

the statute making murder unlawful for instance is Title 18 of US Code sec 1111


Of the 53 titles, the following titles have been enacted into positive (statutory) law: 1, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 17, 18, 23, 28, 31, 32, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 44, 46, 49, 51, and 54. When a title of the Code was enacted into positive law, the text of the title became legal evidence of the law. Titles that have not been enacted into positive law are only prima facie evidence of the law. In that case, the Statutes at Large still govern. Note: Title 52 is an editorially-created title, and Title 53 is currently reserved. For the current list of titles, see http://uscode.house.gov.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/col...rom=2015&go=Go

Last edited by BoulderSooner; 01-20-2017 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:34 PM   #36
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by sybarite View Post

Meanwhile, boulder, there are no penalties associated with Section 301, likely because they do understand that such penalties would likely be struck down as conflicts with the First Amendment.
no doubt and that is as it should be ....... just pointing out that it is the law ..
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

let met make sure i get this right. I am supposed to stand and respect a song that for one wasn't written for me and two talked about killing slaves? Once I learned the true meaning of that song and the authors beliefs... i lost all respect for it.

However, i will stand for the troops.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:54 PM   #38
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
no doubt and that is as it should be ....... just pointing out that it is the law ..
Yes. It's a law. It's also only a suggestion. There's no requirement in there. It's just the government saying how they think people should act. It neither prescribes nor proscribes any behavior during the anthem.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:18 PM   #40
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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let met make sure i get this right. I am supposed to stand and respect a song that for one wasn't written for me and two talked about killing slaves? Once I learned the true meaning of that song and the authors beliefs... i lost all respect for it.

However, i will stand for the troops.
I don't know anything about that, but at least it seems like you're standing for the right reason. It's true that America has never been perfect. You mentioned slavery and also women couldn't vote 100 years ago. However, we're also the world's oldest and most successful democracy and that's something people paid for with their lives and bodies. As long as you respect that, I don't care if you actually like the song. That's just my opinion.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:25 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
no doubt and that is as it should be ....... just pointing out that it is the law ..


I guess so. But I fail to see how something could be a law when there is. It consequences to not following it.

Code, ok.


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Old 01-20-2017, 02:25 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 25mob View Post
let met make sure i get this right. I am supposed to stand and respect a song that for one wasn't written for me and two talked about killing slaves? Once I learned the true meaning of that song and the authors beliefs... i lost all respect for it.



However, i will stand for the troops.


Lol


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Old 01-20-2017, 02:26 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by treebranch View Post
Yes. It's a law. It's also only a suggestion. There's no requirement in there. It's just the government saying how they think people should act. It neither prescribes nor proscribes any behavior during the anthem.


Since when can laws be only suggestions? That can't be


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"But I know some of the qualities of the coach I would pick. Somebody that doesn't mind working, a coach that's going to bring a fresh mindset and help us all get better as basketball players as well as men. A coach that has all our best interests at heart."

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Old 01-20-2017, 02:30 PM   #44
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Since when can laws be only suggestions? That can't be


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Legislators pass tons of laws that are non-binding resolutions. They basically state that it is the opinion of the government that things should be a certain way, but they don't give funding to make things that way or put penalty on people or institutions for not doing those things.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:36 PM   #45
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I don't know anything about that, but at least it seems like you're standing for the right reason. It's true that America has never been perfect. You mentioned slavery and also women couldn't vote 100 years ago. However, we're also the world's oldest and most successful democracy and that's something people paid for with their lives and bodies. As long as you respect that, I don't care if you actually like the song. That's just my opinion.
Oldest democracy for who? And to somehow try to water down what this country stood for even as recently as the 60's by saying this country has never been perfect is a slap in the face to those people that never saw the democracy you speak of. Even those with the wrong color skin that fought for this country when they came back home didn't see the democracy you are speaking of.

This is the type of thinking that falls in line with the whole "make America great again". When has America been great for anyone else except white Americans?
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:36 PM   #46
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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I guess so. But I fail to see how something could be a law when there is. It consequences to not following it.

Code, ok.


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the entire set of laws put forward by congress are in the US title Code that is what the LAW is ..

breaking some of the laws have written and described consequences .. some don't
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:38 PM   #47
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Oldest democracy for who? And to somehow try to water down what this country stood for even as recently as the 60's by saying this country has never been perfect is a slap in the face to those people that never saw the democracy you speak of. Even those with the wrong color skin that fought for this country when they came back home didn't see the democracy you are speaking of.

This is the type of thinking that falls in line with the whole "make America great again". When has America been great for anyone else except white Americans?
this is such garbage
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:06 PM   #48
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

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Oldest democracy for who? And to somehow try to water down what this country stood for even as recently as the 60's by saying this country has never been perfect is a slap in the face to those people that never saw the democracy you speak of. Even those with the wrong color skin that fought for this country when they came back home didn't see the democracy you are speaking of.

This is the type of thinking that falls in line with the whole "make America great again". When has America been great for anyone else except white Americans?
NO offense, but sounds like you might want to start looking for a new country if it is so bad here
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:07 PM   #49
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I just finished a book called “A Train Near Magdeburg: A Teacher's Journey into the Holocaust”. It’s a non-fiction book about a group of Holocaust survivors who were rescued from an abandoned Nazi train by American soldiers on April 13th, 1945. The author is Matthew Rozell, a high school History teacher in upstate New York who teaches about the Holocaust. He facilitated reunions between the children rescued from that train and the American soldiers who rescued them. The last of the rescuers passed away earlier this year.

In the last pages of the book, he says this: “I could hear Dr. Bauer’s words echoing in my ears, reminding us that democracy is not only very fragile, it is hardly even out of the cradle in the backdrop of world history. What sets democracy apart from every other experiment in history, in it’s pure form and in theory, is it’s defense of minorities. It doesn’t exist yet, but maybe this form of government needs to be protected, and nourished. And maybe this is what the soldiers were fighting for. The world does not have to be united, and in fact it never has been and never will be. We argue and we disagree all of the time. That is as it is and as it should be. At the end of the day, we either kill each other, or we live and let live.”

We have not always done a good job of protecting minorities. In fact, for much of our history we have done a terrible job of protecting minorities. But, our Constitution gives us a framework to do better. And we should always be striving to do better. But if you can't see that, you have been living with blinders on .
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:25 PM   #50
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Default Re: Buzz Williams/National Anthem Respect

This seems to have taken a turn entirely from the college basketball topic that started the thread and so I am going to move it to the Campus Corner Board.
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