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Old 04-01-2020, 11:00 AM   #2501
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Default Re: March Madness and Covid-19

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Originally Posted by sheepdogs1 View Post
Look at the last 6 quarters of the Obama administration and tell us what direction GDP was moving. The average gdp was 1.58%

------------------------------------------------

Factory jobs returning to the country

Tax cuts

Deregulation

Increased consumer and business optimism

Increased wages
I was hoping WTSooner would reply as he was the one touting Trump's record. It is common that people talk about how great a politician is but when you ask what specifically makes him or his policies great, they cannot tell you.

But to address your points here is the comparison on annual GDP on a 3-year basis:
2014- 2.5 2015- 2.9 2016- 1.6
2017- 2.4 2018- 2.9 2019- 2.3
So where is this whole "revitalization of the economy" that supporters point to? it looks very similar to me.

You also mentioned other things that Trump and his supporters tout as success, but what did Trump do, other than the Tax Cut (which is debatable as to how successful that has been for the economy-see the GDP), to spur those changes? How has deregulation helped the economy, what exactly has that done to result in economic data?

I didn't think it was accurate to give Clinton majority credit for the economy in the '90s just as it wasn't fair to blame Bush for the tech bubble or the great Recession. I think the same can be said of the economy for the last few years as the economy has continued the same path.

Like I replied to WT, if Trump actually is the one that impacted these numbers, it should be easy to cite the specific actions and policies.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:10 AM   #2502
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Originally Posted by MJSooner View Post
I was hoping WTSooner would reply as he was the one touting Trump's record. It is common that people talk about how great a politician is but when you ask what specifically makes him or his policies great, they cannot tell you.

But to address your points here is the comparison on annual GDP on a 3-year basis:
2014- 2.5 2015- 2.9 2016- 1.6
2017- 2.4 2018- 2.9 2019- 2.3
So where is this whole "revitalization of the economy" that supporters point to? it looks very similar to me.

You also mentioned other things that Trump and his supporters tout as success, but what did Trump do, other than the Tax Cut (which is debatable as to how successful that has been for the economy-see the GDP), to spur those changes? How has deregulation helped the economy, what exactly has that done to result in economic data?

I didn't think it was accurate to give Clinton majority credit for the economy in the '90s just as it wasn't fair to blame Bush for the tech bubble or the great Recession. I think the same can be said of the economy for the last few years as the economy has continued the same path.

Like I replied to WT, if Trump actually is the one that impacted these numbers, it should be easy to cite the specific actions and policies.
I'll stand by the last 6 quarters of gdp growth. It was in a decline state of mind. That changed with a different administration.

Factory jobs pay higher salary usually than a host of service jobs plus they usually offer better benefits. This helped middle income to lower level income America.

And sustaining an economy is a different breed than lighting the flame under one.

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Old 04-01-2020, 11:13 AM   #2503
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Trump may be a narcissist, but Obama is the narcissistic poster boy. His favorite topic? You guessed it...himself. Case in point, a speech in Germany last April where he referred to himself 392 times.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...imself-467-ti/
Even Trump supporters would agree on his healthy ego, but make no mistake, as Ada points out, Obama loved him some Obama. He just wasn't bombastic about it.

Every person in power or leadership has to have a confidence and a healthy "me the leader" attitude, but we have seen the definition of self-love in leadership in the last few years.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:15 AM   #2504
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So, getting the death count wrong after a tornado is better than getting the population of Seoul and Tokyo mixed up. In what delusional world. I'm pegging you as a fun facts type of guy.

Why does everything have to be a pissing contest? I mean how big is that void in your life? If you've been a pedophile for only a week you are a better person than a pedophile who has been at it for a year. Pull up your damn zipper please and stop the skull cucking, it is annoying.
I said in a previous post getting the population wrong wasnít a big deal to me, just stop saying your the best at everything.

I wasnít even replying to you, youíve been more active in this thread with your dumb comparisons such as pedophile history, so feel free to shut the hell up.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:17 AM   #2505
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I was hoping WTSooner would reply as he was the one touting Trump's record. It is common that people talk about how great a politician is but when you ask what specifically makes him or his policies great, they cannot tell you.
lol, that's because it's usually not about any huge policy changes. It's usually about the feel and vibe of the President. Business owners know Trump's policies will be for them, so they run their business in a more wide-open manner. It's all you heard about before the election, before there was any talk or action on what Trump might change. He's changed things as have been noted, but more than anything, the economy will always run better and do better and grow more under a President like Trump, than say, an Obama. Is that really debatable? You have a President that wants jobs, wants people working, and wants unemployment low. Every small policy change he makes is to drive that platform. Obama, for example, didn't have that same platform. His platform was more about moving us forward (in some eyes) in terms of renewable energy. And also part of his platform was taxing larger companies and higher income earners. That Trump platform and that Obama platform, while not polar opposites, are certainly on opposite ends of the spectrum. And the economy, historically, has responded to that.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:30 AM   #2506
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Originally Posted by AdaSooner View Post
Trump may be a narcissist, but Obama is the narcissistic poster boy. His favorite topic? You guessed it...himself. Case in point, a speech in Germany last April where he referred to himself 392 times.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...imself-467-ti/
I was just looking at this thread while taking my lunch break and I had to reply to this. If you click on the link you will see that the "speech" wasn't a speech at all, it was a 90 minute townhall where people asked President Obama all kinds of questions. Since they didn't actually post the transcript of the "speech" (why would they do something crazy like post the words of a "speech" they're criticizing???) I will assume that the people asked him all kinds of questions about his life and career. Now you tell me, how do you answer questions like that without using the pronouns "I", "me", and "my?" I am laughing so hard at the image of someone listening to the 90 minute townhall and counting every time he said those words and then writing a dumb story about how that is somehow evidence of narcissism. It's really amazing.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:30 AM   #2507
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I'll stand by the last 6 quarters of gdp growth. It was in a decline state of mind. That changed with a different administration.

And sustaining an economy is a different breed than lighting the flame under one.
Picking those last 6 quarters was very selective, much like what we've talked about on this board for the last 100 pages on picking specific data, it doesn't show the true picture.

In late 2015 into 2016, China had a financial bubble and had changed its currency values. It caused our dollar to spike. The economies in China and Asia were impacted, which resulted in a dramatic downturn in the emerging markets space and it severely impacted energy and agriculture, resulting in a slow down in our GDP. But it wasn't because of our economic conditions. Blaming that slowdown on our economy would be similar to blaming the current energy crisis overseas on Trump. That is why it is more accurate to take a 3 year GDP number.

But like WT, can you not cite specific policies that contributed to those numbers or what actions were taken that resulted in improved economic data or job numbers and an "economic revitalization"? I put that in quotes because nothing points to the fact that we have a revitalized economy, just a sustained one. If it is harder to sustain one, again, there should be actions you can cite that make a difference.

The only reason you have is an improved state of mind (which as someone center-right I agree with BTW) so maybe Trump's actions had very little to do with it.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:34 AM   #2508
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Picking those last 6 quarters was very selective, much like what we've talked about on this board for the last 100 pages on picking specific data, it doesn't show the true picture.

In late 2015 into 2016, China had a financial bubble and had changed its currency values. It caused our dollar to spike. The economies in China and Asia were impacted, which resulted in a dramatic downturn in the emerging markets space and it severely impacted energy and agriculture, resulting in a slow down in our GDP. But it wasn't because of our economic conditions. Blaming that slowdown on our economy would be similar to blaming the current energy crisis overseas on Trump. That is why it is more accurate to take a 3 year GDP number.

But like WT, can you not cite specific policies that contributed to those numbers or what actions were taken that resulted in improved economic data or job numbers and an "economic revitalization"? I put that in quotes because nothing points to the fact that we have a revitalized economy, just a sustained one. If it is harder to sustain one, again, there should be actions you can cite that make a difference.

The only reason you have is an improved state of mind (which as someone center-right I agree with BTW) so maybe Trump's actions had very little to do with it.
The way I see it 6 quarters is a trend or it is not a trend. One of the two is accurate. It was the end of the previous administration which is why it was cited.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:36 AM   #2509
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I was just looking at this thread while taking my lunch break and I had to reply to this. If you click on the link you will see that the "speech" wasn't a speech at all, it was a 90 minute townhall where people asked President Obama all kinds of questions. Since they didn't actually post the transcript of the "speech" (why would they do something crazy like post the words of a "speech" they're criticizing???) I will assume that the people asked him all kinds of questions about his life and career. Now you tell me, how do you answer questions like that without using the pronouns "I", "me", and "my?" I am laughing so hard at the image of someone listening to the 90 minute townhall and counting every time he said those words and then writing a dumb story about how that is somehow evidence of narcissism. It's really amazing.
It's called hanging on everyone's word.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:43 AM   #2510
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I said in a previous post getting the population wrong wasnít a big deal to me, just stop saying your the best at everything.

I wasnít even replying to you, youíve been more active in this thread with your dumb comparisons such as pedophile history, so feel free to shut the hell up.
Because you insist on turning everything into a pissing contest is why. You referenced abd's quotes and you did so for a specific reason. You're trying to make a comparison how one person touts more things wrongly than another. Aren't you? That is why I used the pedophile analogy because wrong is wrong. All you want to do is focus on the wrong of one rather than the wrong of all and that is the obvious point. You are a pick and choose type of guy. It is called convenience and they are the low of the low.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:51 AM   #2511
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He's changed things as have been noted, but more than anything, the economy will always run better and do better and grow more under a President like Trump, than say, an Obama. Is that really debatable? You have a President that wants jobs, wants people working, and wants unemployment low....
That Trump platform and that Obama platform, while not polar opposites, are certainly on opposite ends of the spectrum. And the economy, historically, has responded to that.
A couple of points from your reply.
  • You said that we have President that wants jobs, wants people working, and wants unemployment low... are you implying that Obama didn't want that? C'mon.
  • You also said the economy will always do better and grow more under a president like Trump than Obama and it's not debatable. As a conservative center-right, I can't believe I am citing this statistic, but you do know that, since WWII, GDP under a Democrat president is 4.4% but under a Republican president it is 2.5%. More than anything I think it proves my point that the economy & markets run on cycles more influenced by companies' earnings, not by presidents.
  • You also stated that Obama's platform was to raise taxes. Are you aware he actually cut income taxes more than he raised them? He cut taxes four times in major bills, and of course, raised them on certain wage earners and businesses in the ACA. Not saying I supported him, but saying he was about raising taxes as a part of his platform is a misnomer.
Ultimately my point is, if you tout that a President has revitalized our economy, which the numbers would indicate he has not, but just sustained it, you should be able to tell me what he did. Every time a strong Trump supporter says Trump's policies have done a great job for the economy, it seems as if they struggle to say what he actually did. The only comeback is to point out how Obama sucked.

I didn't like Obama's positions either, but just because I didn't like him or his policies doesn't mean the policies now are successful.

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Old 04-01-2020, 11:55 AM   #2512
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The way I see it 6 quarters is a trend or it is not a trend. One of the two is accurate. It was the end of the previous administration which is why it was cited.
So the reasoning on why Trump is great for the economy is to just point out GDP in the last 6 quarters of Obama, which was influenced by emerging markets activities? That is the only "specific" to support that Trump is doing great with the economy?
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:01 PM   #2513
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I was just looking at this thread while taking my lunch break and I had to reply to this. If you click on the link you will see that the "speech" wasn't a speech at all, it was a 90 minute townhall where people asked President Obama all kinds of questions. Since they didn't actually post the transcript of the "speech" (why would they do something crazy like post the words of a "speech" they're criticizing???) I will assume that the people asked him all kinds of questions about his life and career. Now you tell me, how do you answer questions like that without using the pronouns "I", "me", and "my?" I am laughing so hard at the image of someone listening to the 90 minute townhall and counting every time he said those words and then writing a dumb story about how that is somehow evidence of narcissism. It's really amazing.
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It's called hanging on everyone's word.
As we have debated on this board, a President's words matter or they do not. You cannot say words matter in some cases, but not in other cases.

I respect Obama as a person and father but did not support his policies. My position on the current president is more opposite of that. But what I don't think can be denied, especially if you look at with an open mind, the one thing they both have in common is a strong love for self.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:04 PM   #2514
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As we have debated on this board, a President's words matter or they do not. You cannot say words matter in some cases, but not in other cases.

I respect Obama as a person and father but did not support his policies. My position on the current president is more opposite of that. But what I don't think can be denied, especially if you look at with an open mind, the one thing they both have in common is a strong love for self.
Maybe, but you're going to have to find me better "proof" than that article lol
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:04 PM   #2515
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I know a lot of companies have pitched in to try to help the fight to combat the virus, including Tesla & GM, but since this has a sports twist, I thought it was pretty cool.

https://www.bauer.com/en-US/bauer-me...hield-faq.html

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...d-manufacturer
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:06 PM   #2516
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So the reasoning on why Trump is great for the economy is to just point out GDP in the last 6 quarters of Obama, which was influenced by emerging markets activities? That is the only "specific" to support that Trump is doing great with the economy?
I was comparing one trend to another and that is an example. I'm not suggesting it is a tell all for there would likely be other causes. The reason why I pointed out the down trend to an uptrend is because they are not one in the same. That's all.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:16 PM   #2517
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Because you insist on turning everything into a pissing contest is why. You referenced abd's quotes and you did so for a specific reason. You're trying to make a comparison how one person touts more things wrongly than another. Aren't you? That is why I used the pedophile analogy because wrong is wrong. All you want to do is focus on the wrong of one rather than the wrong of all and that is the obvious point. You are a pick and choose type of guy. It is called convenience and they are the low of the low.
I said I donít care if Trump misspeaks. Iím tired of his narcissism, antics, & divisive nature. I quoted ABD to help prove a point I was making. I gave him credit for lowering welfare, but pointed out a lot more things that I think heís been wrong to a poster who was defending him. I see you havenít refuted any of my points or opinions just trying to attack how I go about it. Iím not a pick & choose guy, Iíll answer any question as long as the other poster shows the same courtesy. You want to talk about convenience? When someone disputes what you say with facts you change the subject or say I choose what I want to see. Like you are doing with MJ right now on economic growth.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:21 PM   #2518
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As we have debated on this board, a President's words matter or they do not. You cannot say words matter in some cases, but not in other cases.
It's called selective convenience. If people, and they know who they are, take a stance that placing one's elbow on the table is the root of all evils then anyone who does it is in the wrong as opposed to purposely singling out those from the same crowd. They just do not get their bowels are not a sight for sore eyes.

You have heard people suggest that we should have taken the outbreak more seriously 2 months ago, as individuals of communities and all the way to the top of government, and that is fine. It is fine, but what these individuals do, as it relates to selective convenience, is turn a blind eye to how liberal run media outlets were telling the masses that the flu was worse than the virus called Covid-19. The NYT, Washington Post, USA Today, to name a few, all were guilty of this yet to them it is all irrelevant.

Does the media not shape the narrative of what they report? They sure do! And the only compelling reason why they took this stance was because they decided what pole of the magnet the administration was at and they go 180 on it. Complicit charlatans.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:24 PM   #2519
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As we have debated on this board, a President's words matter or they do not. You cannot say words matter in some cases, but not in other cases.

I respect Obama as a person and father but did not support his policies. My position on the current president is more opposite of that. But what I don't think can be denied, especially if you look at with an open mind, the one thing they both have in common is a strong love for self.
MJSooner, Trump haters canít look at anything he says or does with an open mind. I get the criticism. He deserves it sometimes. Itís the blind hatred that drives some of his opposition to only focus on the negatives I donít understand. People like that are to be pitied.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:29 PM   #2520
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I said I don’t care if Trump misspeaks. I’m tired of his narcissism, antics, & divisive nature. I quoted ABD to help prove a point I was making. I gave him credit for lowering welfare, but pointed out a lot more things that I think he’s been wrong to a poster who was defending him. I see you haven’t refuted any of my points or opinions just trying to attack how I go about it. I’m not a pick & choose guy, I’ll answer any question as long as the other poster shows the same courtesy. You want to talk about convenience? When someone disputes what you say with facts you change the subject or say I choose what I want to see. Like you are doing with MJ right now on economic growth.
I said to MJ that the trend is one aspect. I did not say it was a tell all and I explicitly stated that to him. He might think that is what I'm hanging my hat on, and it his prerogative to do so, but that was not what I was saying.

I am not saying Trump is a lovable character like Obama came across as, but I really do not care. I care more about results such as the taste of the food being served rather than the smile the chef makes while serving those at the table. Not sure if you watched Seinfeld, but think "Soup Nazi" (and that episode was based off of an anecdotal situation).

And if I came across too harsh then I apologize. I apologize.

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Old 04-01-2020, 12:33 PM   #2521
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MJSooner, Trump haters can’t look at anything he says or does with an open mind. I get the criticism. He deserves it sometimes. It’s the blind hatred that drives some of his opposition to only focus on the negatives I don’t understand. People like that are to be pitied.
I base my thinking about Trump on facts and data. There's nothing blind about it.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:34 PM   #2522
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MJSooner, Trump haters canít look at anything he says or does with an open mind. I get the criticism. He deserves it sometimes. Itís the blind hatred that drives some of his opposition to only focus on the negatives I donít understand. People like that are to be pitied.

And these very same people help Trump's reelection. There are those in the democratic party who have had it and asking for a change of the guard as it pertains to their allegiance.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:34 PM   #2523
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I base my thinking about Trump on facts and data. There's nothing blind about it.

He was not talking about you specifically. He was talking to you about others. Nothing else.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:38 PM   #2524
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He was not talking about you specifically. He was talking to you about others. Nothing else.
Do you feel the need to reply to every single post in this thread? Seriously. He can speak for himself.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:43 PM   #2525
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Do you feel the need to reply to every single post in this thread? Seriously. He can speak for himself.
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