Magic Johnson as a General Manager

[jmizzy4ou]

Originally Posted by Eielson

It's the right call, and shoulda been made a couple years ago. Jeannie is too bitter to let it happen, though.

Jerry West wants no parts of that job. This entire situation is starting to look like Kobe may be involved behind the scene. Pelinka is Kobe's guy, and now the word is Jeanie wants to give more decision making power to Pelinka, who wouldn't have the job if not for Kobe. Jeanie is very loyal to the Laker Family, especially those her father loved. She needs to bring in some outsiders with no emotional connection. Rumors also are out there saying her relationship with Phil Jackson isn't as warm as it once was.......

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by jmizzy4ou

Jerry West wants no parts of that job. This entire situation is starting to look like Kobe may be involved behind the scene. Pelinka is Kobe's guy, and now the word is Jeanie wants to give more decision making power to Pelinka, who wouldn't have the job if not for Kobe. Jeanie is very loyal to the Laker Family, especially those her father loved. She needs to bring in some outsiders with no emotional connection. Rumors also are out there saying her relationship with Phil Jackson isn't as warm as it once was.......

I agree that Jerry probably doesn't want anything to do with the job. At one point he did, but Jeannie and Phil pretty well nixed that. I think Pelinka is very knowledgable about the game. I wouldn't have been hearbroken had he been fired, but I don't see why everybody has turned on him. I think he deserves another year or two.

[One More Rebound]

The best solution would be for Jeanie Buss to sell The Lakers, and for the new owner to hire basketball people who make basketball decisions based on facts and evidence, and not misguided loyalty. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by one more rebound

the best solution would be for jeanie buss to sell the lakers, and for the new owner to hire basketball people who make basketball decisions based on facts and evidence, and not misguided loyalty. Never gonna happen!

PITCHFORKs !!

[One More Rebound]

Word from LA is that Magic is still going to recruit players to join The Lakers. Is this a way to avoid charges of tampering?

[WTSooner]

Rumors of Kyrie to LA with Lebron. lol

Hope it happens. I know that pairing worked for a while, but I don't think it'll work again (Lebron's aging), and in the West.

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by WTSooner

Rumors of Kyrie to LA with Lebron. lol

Hope it happens. I know that pairing worked for a while, but I don't think it'll work again (Lebron's aging), and in the West.

If healthy, Kyrie and Lebron would be a top 2-3 seed. They won't be alone.

[jmizzy4ou]

Originally Posted by Eielson

If healthy, Kyrie and Lebron would be a top 2-3 seed. They won't be alone.

Exactly. Windhorst says probably would be enough to draw AD to LA as well.... The new NO GM has said he wasn't a part of the original LA discussion for AD, and he will listen to LA and any other offers....

[WTSooner]

Originally Posted by Eielson

If healthy, Kyrie and Lebron would be a top 2-3 seed. They won't be alone.

lol, I disagree. Unless they can add another star or semi-star, they won't be that good. And their roster's "worth" takes a hit every day. Ball is a clown. Ingram has potentially long-term healthy issues. Nobody wants to play with Lebron except maybe KI, who is being ran out of Boston.

We'll see. Lakers are going nowhere fast though, IMO.

[WTSooner]

Originally Posted by jmizzy4ou

Exactly. Windhorst says probably would be enough to draw AD to LA as well.... The new NO GM has said he wasn't a part of the original LA discussion for AD, and he will listen to LA and any other offers....

He also said he wants to try and keep Davis in NO.

Please tell me what LA can offer that can't (won't be topped)? Ball isn't all that interesting. Ingram has potential long-term health issues. Kuzma is okay, but if he is the best player NO is getting back, that isn't a great deal for them.

The LA trade chips are worth less today than they were at the time they were being offered before.

[jmizzy4ou]

Originally Posted by WTSooner

He also said he wants to try and keep Davis in NO.

Please tell me what LA can offer that can't (won't be topped)? Ball isn't all that interesting. Ingram has potential long-term health issues. Kuzma is okay, but if he is the best player NO is getting back, that isn't a great deal for them.

The LA trade chips are worth less today than they were at the time they were being offered before.

It will be a hard sell no doubt. They are saying Ingram is going to be fine, but I wonder....

I guess I see more potential in Ball than most. He is a really good defender, can create some for others, and isn't a bad attitude guy, imo. Not sure how much he works, but if can develop any type of jumper, I think he will be decent.

For sure Ingram and Kuz are the best trade chips they have, and it probably won't land AD. The Lakers have had some luck in the draft lottery lately. Maybe another top pick to add to the offer.....

I actually like Vogel and Kidd over Lue or any of the other names I heard. I believe with Vogel there, they will do a better job with their veteran minimum cast. Beasley, Stephenson, and Rondo were not good choices to play with LBJ. There were shooters available they coulda had....


Still holding out hope they turn it around.

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by WTSooner

lol, I disagree. Unless they can add another star or semi-star, they won't be that good. And their roster's "worth" takes a hit every day. Ball is a clown. Ingram has potentially long-term healthy issues. Nobody wants to play with Lebron except maybe KI, who is being ran out of Boston.

We'll see. Lakers are going nowhere fast though, IMO.

Nearly everything you said in this post is false. Ball is not a clown, and advanced statistics have shown that since day 1. Yes, his jump shot is broken, but he's an elite PG defensively, passing, and rebounding. That's not my opinion -- it's statistical fact.

Ingram is fine. Surgery was a success, and he's on pace to be 100% this summer. This isn't a hypercoagulability disorder like Bosh, so it has a very low risk of recurring.

Nobody wants to play with Lebron? There's no other way to say it -- you're delusional. You do realize that Bosh and Wade teamed up with him, right? And that AD just tried to force his way to LA? And as you said, there's also Kyrie. And really just about every other notable FA outside of KD.

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by WTSooner

He also said he wants to try and keep Davis in NO.

Of course he's going to try. He's as aware as everybody else that it won't work, though.

Please tell me what LA can offer that can't (won't be topped)?

Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and a lottery pick beats anything else NO will be offered. I expect LA could take one of those pieces out and still get it done. Boston is unlikely to attach Tatum without assurances that AD will stay. With that in mind, who is going to make a better offer?

[WTSooner]

Originally Posted by Eielson

Of course he's going to try. He's as aware as everybody else that it won't work, though.



Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and a lottery pick beats anything else NO will be offered. I expect LA could take one of those pieces out and still get it done. Boston is unlikely to attach Tatum without assurances that AD will stay. With that in mind, who is going to make a better offer?

NO will be laughed out of town if they take that. Like I said above, that package of players is worth less now than it was when it was offered the first time around. And let's be clear, while the LA pick is lottery, it's still outside the top 10. Limits it's worth, IMO.

If the Knicks get the first pick (or even if it's top 3), that would be a pretty darn good trade chip if they are able to lure KD and KI, trading that pick for Davis would make A LOT of sense.

I wouldn't be so sure that Ainge won't deal Tatum either. I hope we let KI walk, don't trade for Davis, and build around the young guys, but Ainge has spent a LOT of time trying to acquire "stars", and it's tough to see him backing off that. Even if Tatum isn't included, Jaylen Brown has more upside than Ball/Ingram, and at least as much as Kuz if not more. Boston has the Memphis pick they could deal this year or next which is likely better than LA's pick. The Williams big man Boston drafted last year has some upside that teams are said to like. They could move one of Smart or Hayward. Maybe Rozier (restricted FA I believe).

Those are probably the two biggest competitors, but who knows, I expect some pretty big movement this offseason, so there could be a surprise team or two. LA's offer is more quantity than quality IMO. If NO was smart, they'd take the deal with the best player, or two players (or potential with draft picks). NO isn't going to turn their franchise around with LA's cast-offs.

[WTSooner]

Originally Posted by Eielson

Nearly everything you said in this post is false. Ball is not a clown, and advanced statistics have shown that since day 1. Yes, his jump shot is broken, but he's an elite PG defensively, passing, and rebounding. That's not my opinion -- it's statistical fact.

Ingram is fine. Surgery was a success, and he's on pace to be 100% this summer. This isn't a hypercoagulability disorder like Bosh, so it has a very low risk of recurring.

Nobody wants to play with Lebron? There's no other way to say it -- you're delusional. You do realize that Bosh and Wade teamed up with him, right? And that AD just tried to force his way to LA? And as you said, there's also Kyrie. And really just about every other notable FA outside of KD.

Give me a break. If Ball was that highly thought of, by anybody, things would be a lot different. LA been trying to trade him since they took him. PHO, who needs a PG, didn't want anything to do with him.

You have no idea what Ingram's future healthy will be like. It's a risk, even if everything appears on the up and up now.

I'm obviously talking about recently, not 10 years ago. Kyrie didn't want to play with him, and there are PLENTY of rumors that other stars (KD, Leonard) don't either. And we'll see about Davis, and what he really wants. Wanting out of NO, and "trying to force a trade to LA", are two different things. A lot of current Davis rumors that don't involve him joining Lebron and the Lakers. Since that all went down, the Laker's management has fallen apart too. A lot of drama. Tough to see them having a high level of success anytime soon, IMO.

[Sooner04]

I don't think Ingram or Ball are motivated enough to be anything more than shrug players in the Association. If you're depending on either of them to be key contributors then you're looking at a very low ceiling.

Meanwhile, I think Kuzma has a chance to develop into a really good contributor. A notch below the elite Western Conference guards, but a really good player.

In closing, I'm a Sonics fan, so I've enjoyed watching the Buss children torpedo this once proud franchise. I know it won't last, but I'm enjoying watching the pile of old tires burn.

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by WTSooner

NO will be laughed out of town if they take that. Like I said above, that package of players is worth less now than it was when it was offered the first time around. And let's be clear, while the LA pick is lottery, it's still outside the top 10. Limits it's worth, IMO.

They had a different GM at the time, and he refused to deal with LA under any circumstances. Different people involved this time around, and many in the organization are upset Demps didn't do the deal.

If the Knicks get the first pick (or even if it's top 3), that would be a pretty darn good trade chip if they are able to lure KD and KI, trading that pick for Davis would make A LOT of sense.

If the Knicks win the Zion sweepstakes, they will become one team LA is worried about. Possibly the only one.

Even if Tatum isn't included, Jaylen Brown has more upside than Ball/Ingram, and at least as much as Kuz if not more. Boston has the Memphis pick they could deal this year or next which is likely better than LA's pick. The Williams big man Boston drafted last year has some upside that teams are said to like. They could move one of Smart or Hayward. Maybe Rozier (restricted FA I believe).

This is painful to read. You're really going to clown on Ball and Ingram, and in the same post praise guys like Brown, Williams, Smart, and Rozier? Thinking Hayward has trade value is absolutely delusional. He hasn't been the same since snapping his leg in half, and he's making 30M a year to come off the bench. That's the opposite of trade value.

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by Sooner04

I don't think Ingram or Ball are motivated enough to be anything more than shrug players in the Association. If you're depending on either of them to be key contributors then you're looking at a very low ceiling.

For whatever reasons, trashing LA's young players is the cool thing to do in the media. We saw it for several years with Russell and Randle. Now they're on new teams, and despite the fact that they're doing pretty much the same thing in different jerseys, everybody is now praising them.

Nobody wants to respect Lonzo's defense, but the evidence is there. He was 3rd for DRPM among PG's as a rookie, and top 10 among all players averaging 30 minutes or more per game. He followed that up as #7 this year. Everything about this kid screams Jason Kidd, and it's no coincidence that he'll be on the bench to coach Lonzo this year.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...RPM/position/1
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...RPM/position/1

I don't get the hate for Ingram, either. He's a perfect player in this age of positionless basketball, as he can play 1-4 on both ends of the court. His team defense isn't on par with Lonzo yet, but he's shown the skill to be an elite 1 on 1 defender. After the all-star break, he came out on fire before being shut down for the year. He was averaging 27.8 points on 57% shooting and 7.5 boards post-break. I know it's a small sample size, but he's 21. His time will come.

[WTSooner]

Originally Posted by Eielson

They had a different GM at the time, and he refused to deal with LA under any circumstances. Different people involved this time around, and many in the organization are upset Demps didn't do the deal.

Nonsense. He tried dealing with them, then got unhappy that they were leaking info. And the ONLY reason I've heard anybody for NO might have been unhappy was b/c it created a weird situation for the rest of the year, plus the injury risk. Had nothing to do with the package LA offered.

Originally Posted by Eielson

This is painful to read. You're really going to clown on Ball and Ingram, and in the same post praise guys like Brown, Williams, Smart, and Rozier? Thinking Hayward has trade value is absolutely delusional. He hasn't been the same since snapping his leg in half, and he's making 30M a year to come off the bench. That's the opposite of trade value.

Hayward absolutely has trade value. Maybe not as much right now, b/c he is going to be much better next year. And guess what? His PER this year was higher than Kuz, Ingram, or Ball. Brown's was right on par with Kuz/Ingram. Rozier's last year, when he actually got to play and play in a role suited for him, his PER was higher than any of those three Lakers' was this year.

None of Kuz, Ingram, or Ball have ever put up even a league average PER (15.00) for any season. Seven seasons worth of below league average combined. Hayward was above it this season. He'll be better next year. Rozier was above it last year when he got regular PT. Tatum has been above it in both of his seasons. Williams is above it, though he hasn't played significant enough minutes for that to really mean anything.

So yeah, if you don't think Boston can beat any offer LA puts out there, I don't know what to tell you. Most everybody familiar with the NBA has been saying the same. It's why NO waited to trade him.

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by WTSooner

Hayward absolutely has trade value. Maybe not as much right now, b/c he is going to be much better next year. And guess what? His PER this year was higher than Kuz, Ingram, or Ball. Brown's was right on par with Kuz/Ingram. Rozier's last year, when he actually got to play and play in a role suited for him, his PER was higher than any of those three Lakers' was this year.

You're failing to comprehend even the basics of trade value. Not only does Hayward have no trade value, you'd likely have to attach a lottery pick to get somebody to take on his salary. Whether he's as good or better than Ball and Ingram doesn't matter. He's a 29 year old getting paid 67M over the next two seasons to come off the bench. He was a shell of his former self last year, and even if he regained his previous form (which is highly unlikely), he'd only have trade value to a select few teams under that contract. Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, and Josh Hart will make a combined 20M next year. Hayward is making 32M. Let that sink in. This is the NBA -- not the MLB. There's a salary cap.

[Eielson]

And I've never said the Celtics COULD not beat the Lakers offer. I said they WOULD not.

[WTSooner]

Originally Posted by Eielson

You're failing to comprehend even the basics of trade value. Not only does Hayward have no trade value, you'd likely have to attach a lottery pick to get somebody to take on his salary. Whether he's as good or better than Ball and Ingram doesn't matter. He's a 29 year old getting paid 67M over the next two seasons to come off the bench. He was a shell of his former self last year, and even if he regained his previous form (which is highly unlikely), he'd only have trade value to a select few teams under that contract. Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, and Josh Hart will make a combined 20M next year. Hayward is making 32M. Let that sink in. This is the NBA -- not the MLB. There's a salary cap.

I just threw Hayward in as an option. IF Boston were to trade for Davis, they'd need SOMEBODY with salary to send back, and he'd be an option, AND NO could absorb him. Easily. What they did with him after that is their choice. But I'd be careful in saying he has no value. There were some online articles the other day suggesting otherwise. But you are right that at that salary, there are limited teams that could get a deal done.

[WTSooner]

Originally Posted by Eielson

And I've never said the Celtics COULD not beat the Lakers offer. I said they WOULD not.

Did you? Or did you say the Celtics wouldn't offer Tatum unless Davis said he'd sign long-term? Not really the same thing, no?

[Eielson]

Originally Posted by WTSooner

Did you? Or did you say the Celtics wouldn't offer Tatum unless Davis said he'd sign long-term? Not really the same thing, no?

Davis won't give assurances, so yes, it is the same thing. He wouldn't give assurances before, and if Kyrie leaves, that's only going to make it worse. If Kyrie leaves, and Boston gives up Tatum, Brown, Hayward, and a lottery pick, what does that leave? AD would be just as well off staying in NO. The only way Boston pulls off this deal:

1. Kyrie resigns.
2. They include an overwhelming number of picks (something like 4-5 first rounders) to keep Tatum out of the deal.
3. AD gives an indication he'll strongly consider staying.

#2 is completely in Boston's control and the only thing that has an above 50% chance of happening. Kyrie's odds of resigning are looking worse by the day. #3 ultimately kills the deal.

Boston is a long-shot.

[Eielson]

Great night for LA. Got #4, NY fell to 3, and Boston didn't get Memphis' pick this year.