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Old 11-28-2022, 01:37 PM   #1
WichitaSooner
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Default Early season observations

First, I'll take my lumps because I was very down on this team after the first four games. I still have some concerns, but this weekend was very encouraging. I think the thing that gives me the most reason for hope is that the turnovers are steadily decreasing, and, not coincidentally, they are finishing games much better. Yesterday made me think back to the Utah State loss last year in the tourney final in November. That time, we had three or four awful possessions while leading late, it snowballed, and we never recovered. This time, we had two or three turnovers and another bad possession, they took the lead, but we regrouped and took over down the stretch. Very impressive.

Sherfield is a huge difference maker and head and shoulders above any of last year's guards. People bash me for how critical I am of Harkless, but we are seeing what it means to have a guy who takes care of the ball, doesn't force things, can facilitate, shoot, and finish. Uzan also handles the ball well, and the three point guard lineup yesterday did some nice things.

Godwin has been huge, especially since Tanner still struggles with fouls and inconsistency. Hill has been very good at all the important things, Jacob is a better player this year, and Cortes just played his best game.

Joe B and Noland are the two guys who have not given us nearly enough. I hope one or both can get things going. If not, Uzan needs to quickly take Noland's spot.

We will still struggle with athletic teams, and Nebraska showed that teams that pound the glass will make life tough on us. But all in all, if this weekend was a sign of things to come, we will be a tough team to beat most nights. Let's keep those turnovers to a minimum and make teams beat us in the halfcourt.
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Old 11-28-2022, 01:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: Early season observations

I would argue that comparing Sherfield and Harkless is apples to oranges--both in the position they play and their style of play. If Harkless were still here, there's not a reason in the world he and Sherfield wouldn't be complementary teammates. Sherfield didn't replace Harkless; he replaced Goldwire and is definitely a step-up in that regard.

If Harkless were here, he wouldn't be taking Sherfield's minutes, he'd be taking Noland's.
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Old 11-28-2022, 02:28 PM   #3
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I would argue that comparing Sherfield and Harkless is apples to oranges--both in the position they play and their style of play. If Harkless were still here, there's not a reason in the world he and Sherfield wouldn't be complementary teammates. Sherfield didn't replace Harkless; he replaced Goldwire and is definitely a step-up in that regard.

If Harkless were here, he wouldn't be taking Sherfield's minutes, he'd be taking Noland's.
My point is, last year, Harkless attempted to be the guy taking big shots and was all too often the guy with the ball in his hands making big decisions. You’re absolutely right that they could play together, but I’m simply comparing this year’s team to last year’s, not what could have been this season if Harkless stayed. The fact he transferred down makes me think he didn’t necessarily want to take a lesser role, but whatever the reasoning, he chose to move on.
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Old 11-28-2022, 02:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Early season observations

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I would argue that comparing Sherfield and Harkless is apples to oranges--both in the position they play and their style of play. If Harkless were still here, there's not a reason in the world he and Sherfield wouldn't be complementary teammates. Sherfield didn't replace Harkless; he replaced Goldwire and is definitely a step-up in that regard.

If Harkless were here, he wouldn't be taking Sherfield's minutes, he'd be taking Noland's.
I believe this is accurate. Sherfield is replacing Goldwire. Noland is more or less replacing Harkless.
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:07 PM   #5
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Default

Still room for lots of improvement and hope it comes. Trying to imagine how we would fare now in a close conference game and still worried about some careless turnovers, FT shooting, bad/stagnant possessions, and cold shooting. I think Sherfield brings us a great addition to help with past woes and if everyone keeps getting better maybe we can win a few of those close conference games we lost last year.

Really looking forward to the Nova and Arky games the next few weeks to help prep us for conference. Nova might not be as expected but still a true road game against a traditional powerhouse.


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Old 11-29-2022, 04:47 AM   #6
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Still room for lots of improvement and hope it comes. Trying to imagine how we would fare now in a close conference game and still worried about some careless turnovers, FT shooting, bad/stagnant possessions, and cold shooting. I think Sherfield brings us a great addition to help with past woes and if everyone keeps getting better maybe we can win a few of those close conference games we lost last year.

Really looking forward to the Nova and Arky games the next few weeks to help prep us for conference. Nova might not be as expected but still a true road game against a traditional powerhouse.


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I think Musselman really wants to get after OU, he seem really mad after last year or at least sounded that way on their local radio show
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Old 11-29-2022, 07:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: Early season observations

Bam is something like a juco adjusting to a different level, so I expect a jump up in the next month. Noland may snap out of his funk or he may go the way of Jamal Bieniemy. Bottom line, we have more big bucket guys than the last year and more balance inside and out than in many years. I expect this team will make the big dance.
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Old 11-29-2022, 09:18 AM   #8
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I think Musselman really wants to get after OU, he seem really mad after last year or at least sounded that way on their local radio show
He had reason to be mad - at his own team.

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Old 11-29-2022, 09:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Early season observations

I'd take Harkless in a heartbeat! I'd cut Noland and Bam to get him back honestly. I do think Noland has potential and can be good to great offensively eventually.

Think of this lineup.
Grant S.
Gibson
Harkless
Hill
Groves

Bench of Noland, Uzan, Cortes, Godwin, Groves.

That team probably makes a deep run and is a top 3 team in the Big 12.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:12 AM   #10
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I'd take Harkless in a heartbeat! I'd cut Noland and Bam to get him back honestly. I do think Noland has potential and can be good to great offensively eventually.

Think of this lineup.
Grant S.
Gibson
Harkless
Hill
Groves

Bench of Noland, Uzan, Cortes, Godwin, Groves.

That team probably makes a deep run and is a top 3 team in the Big 12.
Dont disagree. harkless is a 5/6th year senior vs a true soph.

Gibson wanted 20 shots and NIL. me > We He took a step down in level of basketball at depaul. as did harkless.

Thing about sherfield is he can be an all conf player and not be selfish. He's clearly our best player but has no problem letting Bijan run the point and making plays.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:19 AM   #11
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I'd take Harkless in a heartbeat! I'd cut Noland and Bam to get him back honestly. I do think Noland has potential and can be good to great offensively eventually.

Think of this lineup.
Grant S.
Gibson
Harkless
Hill
Groves

Bench of Noland, Uzan, Cortes, Godwin, Groves.

That team probably makes a deep run and is a top 3 team in the Big 12.
Two things. First, who is to say that Noland and Cortes would have returned if Harkless and Gibson came back? They likely would have seen their path to playing time blocked and looked elsewhere.

Second -- no way that team would be top 3 in the league. Unless KU, Baylor, or Texas folded their program, we wouldn't have been within shouting distance of them.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: Early season observations

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Originally Posted by tmeyer3307 View Post
I'd take Harkless in a heartbeat! I'd cut Noland and Bam to get him back honestly. I do think Noland has potential and can be good to great offensively eventually.

Think of this lineup.
Grant S.
Gibson
Harkless
Hill
Groves

Bench of Noland, Uzan, Cortes, Godwin, Groves.

That team probably makes a deep run and is a top 3 team in the Big 12.
that team is far far worse on D and would turn it over a lot more
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: Early season observations

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Two things. First, who is to say that Noland and Cortes would have returned if Harkless and Gibson came back? They likely would have seen their path to playing time blocked and looked elsewhere.

Second -- no way that team would be top 3 in the league. Unless KU, Baylor, or Texas folded their program, we wouldn't have been within shouting distance of them.
Those guys are beatable.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:21 AM   #14
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Gibson wanted 20 shots and NIL. me > We He took a step down in level of basketball at depaul. as did harkless.
and he wanted to play PG which he is now doing
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:23 AM   #15
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that team is far far worse on D and would turn it over a lot more
I agree with turnovers, but worse on defense? Harkless & Gibson are much better defenders that J. Groves, Noland, Bam.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:32 AM   #16
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I agree with turnovers, but worse on defense? Harkless & Gibson are much better defenders that J. Groves, Noland, Bam.
agree on harkless don't agree on gibson he tried very hard but had issues closing out because of his size and would limit how much switching we could do
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:55 AM   #17
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agree on harkless don't agree on gibson he tried very hard but had issues closing out because of his size and would limit how much switching we could do
His size hurt him, but he was a really solid defender. I think he's better defensively than Grant, Noland, Bam, Cortes, and J. Groves.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:31 AM   #18
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Those guys are beatable.
Everyone is beatable. But no way the roster mentioned in the post would have been able to finish ahead of any of them in an 18-game conference season. Zero. People on here say KU is beatable every season, especially when they lose a game or two early. And yet come March, they are a top seed and national contender. Baylor has been as good as any program in the country the past few years. Texas is always capable of flaming out, granted, but I don't see it this season.
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Old 11-30-2022, 08:37 AM   #19
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All I'm saying is.. If you had all three of those guards right now... You have three guys that could put up 20+ any given night. Not many teams have that. Gibson showed he's an elite shooter/scorer..
Grant can score we all know that.
Harkless is more of a 12-15ppg a night guy, but on a good night he's capable of 20ish.

Hill would never have to score with that lineup
Groves would have more rim runs and more open shots.

If we had most of the guys back on the bench that team has a shot I still think.. Now, I'd agree.. Cortes and or Noland wouldn't be on team.. Bamisile for sure would not be here.
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:02 AM   #20
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All I'm saying is.. If you had all three of those guards right now... You have three guys that could put up 20+ any given night. Not many teams have that. Gibson showed he's an elite shooter/scorer..
Grant can score we all know that.
Harkless is more of a 12-15ppg a night guy, but on a good night he's capable of 20ish.

Hill would never have to score with that lineup
Groves would have more rim runs and more open shots.

If we had most of the guys back on the bench that team has a shot I still think.. Now, I'd agree.. Cortes and or Noland wouldn't be on team.. Bamisile for sure would not be here.
Harkless went for 20 2 times in his OU career ... he was not 20+ on a given night .

he was single digits 26 times in his OU career ... (12 times 5 or under)
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:33 AM   #21
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Harkless went for 20 2 times in his OU career ... he was not 20+ on a given night .

he was single digits 26 times in his OU career ... (12 times 5 or under)
And pretty inefficient on offense, as well. High turnovers and low percentages shooting. I like Harkless but we are better off without him imo because younger players will get those minutes.
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:35 AM   #22
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And pretty inefficient on offense, as well. High turnovers and low percentages shooting. I like Harkless but we are better off without him imo because younger players will get those minutes.
agree .. harkless as a role player was great ... Harkless wanting to be "the man" on O was a disaster ..
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:37 AM   #23
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Would y'all take Jacob Groves with Gibson/Sherfield or Harkless as your other starting guard?

Maybe I was off on his points.. I still feel like as a third option he could score 12-15ppg. I don't know.. I would take that 3 over what we have right now in a heartbeat and I think they could compete and do very well.
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:47 AM   #24
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Would y'all take Jacob Groves with Gibson/Sherfield or Harkless as your other starting guard?

Maybe I was off on his points.. I still feel like as a third option he could score 12-15ppg. I don't know.. I would take that 3 over what we have right now in a heartbeat and I think they could compete and do very well.
On our FF team, our second leading scorers were Woodard (13 ppg) and Cousins (12.6). Both of those guys are far better shooters and overall offensive players than Harkless, and they played on a team that was much more up tempo than the system Moser plays. Harkless would likely be more efficient as a third or fourth option, but would be very unlikely to crack double digits. And it certainly appears that he wanted to be the leading man rather than a role player.
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:02 AM   #25
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Default Re: Early season observations

Harkless averaged 9 points per game at OU, 8 his first season, 10 his second (would he have jumped to 12 or more this season? No way of knowing, but maybe).

He averaged two turnovers per game at OU but also two steals. Five rebounds per game.

Noland has averaged 4 ppg both last season and this. 1 turnover and 1 steal per game. 2 rebounds per game.

This season, J. Groves is averaging 9 ppg. He's averaging 0 steals, 1 turnover, 3 rebounds.

Harkless was last year's designated goat (in the negative sense) for some on this board, but it's safe to say he could have helped us this season.
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