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Old Yesterday, 08:10 AM   #3901
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Default Re: March Madness and Covid-19

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Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
I have a question for you guys...Is something that happens to 9-20 people out of 41MM an indication that this "something" is a systematic problem?
THIS is exactly why I refuse to believe this is a problem on the scale it is being presented on. Sorry, I can't get behind blowing something up this big, that happens so infrequently. Yes, speaking of each individual case where the cops are guilty, it's a terrible thing. But to tear our country apart, not just physically, over something that is happening so infrequently, that infuriates me.

The other is the notion that any time an unarmed black person is killed by a cop that it's a "bad shoot". There are plenty of scenarios where that is not the case, including the incident that started all of this (the kid in Ferguson, MO). That last statement is my opinion, of course.

I'm not unsympathetic to innocent black people getting killed by cops. I just don't believe it's an issue on a large enough scale to warrant the reaction it has gotten over the last 5 years.
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Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM   #3902
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Default Re: March Madness and Covid-19

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Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
I'm not aware of anybody questioning that it's manslaughter. Stating that meth and fentanyl did not contribute to Mr Floyd's death, however, is simply an untenable position.

I'm not defending the police officer. I'm refuting the notion that the state-appointed ME is making false medical statements and acting as a puppet for white supremacists.
Agreed. It's manslaughter or possibly murder 3, b/c the police officer's actions, IMO, don't result in the death of the individual most of the time.

All that extra stuff doesn't affect if he is innocent or guilty, but it affects what exactly he is guilty of. Anybody trying to call this 1st degree murder is insane.
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Old Yesterday, 08:47 AM   #3903
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Default Re: March Madness and Covid-19

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Originally Posted by WTSooner View Post
THIS is exactly why I refuse to believe this is a problem on the scale it is being presented on. Sorry, I can't get behind blowing something up this big, that happens so infrequently. Yes, speaking of each individual case where the cops are guilty, it's a terrible thing. But to tear our country apart, not just physically, over something that is happening so infrequently, that infuriates me.

The other is the notion that any time an unarmed black person is killed by a cop that it's a "bad shoot". There are plenty of scenarios where that is not the case, including the incident that started all of this (the kid in Ferguson, MO). That last statement is my opinion, of course.

I'm not unsympathetic to innocent black people getting killed by cops. I just don't believe it's an issue on a large enough scale to warrant the reaction it has gotten over the last 5 years.
I think there is more to it than that.... Death is the ultimate bad outcome, but the targeting of blacks is definitely a problem with any crime. How much more frequently are they patted down by police? Pulled over? How much more are the police even involved in something because they were called to the scene because the presence of a black person? Like the lady in the park who called the cops on the bird watcher because she was scared of a black person.

That last one isn't the cops fault, but cops are called out to respond to white people being scared of black people fairly regularly. Stuff you and I do all the time can result in a call to the cops, such as:
  • Bird watching in a park
  • Sitting in a Starbucks
  • Selling water for a trip to Disneyland
  • Mowing lawns (a white neighbor saw some black kids mowing grass, which was their summer lawn business, and called the cops)
  • Entering your own apartment (white neighbors stopped the owner of an apartment from entering his own apartment unless he could prove he lived there. When he had the key, they called the cops and reported a breakin)
  • Taking a nap (a Yale University black student was taking a nap in a common area, and they tried to make her prove she was a Yale Student, and the cops were called)

Again, in these cases the police did the right thing (as far as I know), and in some of these cases people donated money to make it right (if you can call it that)... but the point is black peoples interaction with police is likely much higher than yours and mine. Nobody calls the cops on me for mowing grass or trying to come home, or walking around, etc...

This kind of stuff happens all the time.

You may not call those problems "systemic", but when this is how you have to live your life, I think you need to show more empathy to the black experience as a whole.... Your pointing to certain stats and saying "see, the cops arrested tons of black people but didn't kill that many statistically".... That is not the only problem.

Police brutality is not exclusively murder, and is not the only part of systemic racism... Blacks tend to receive longer jail sentences, be sentenced to jail more frequently, stopped by police more often, have the police called on them more often, etc. Black men are 5% of the population and about 35% of the prison population. 1 in 3 black men will spend some time in jail, etc.

And all of those things contribute to the cycle... Black people have a harder time finding great employment than white people do, black communities tend to be poor, with bad schooling, etc... Once you've had interaction with the criminal justice system, your life becomes significantly more difficult, etc.

I mean, we could go on forever with this... but I think your focus on this too narrow. Again, death is the worst outcome, but the death of innocent/unarmed black men makes everything else boil over... So the protests come after a death, but there are a lot of other issues.
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Old Yesterday, 09:06 AM   #3904
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Default Re: March Madness and Covid-19

Yes, I realize this article below comes from a conservative slant, but it does provide some clarity. It only addresses officer-involved "shootings". And the information is mined from the Washington Post's searchable database. While I agree with most of the article, it doesn't address every aspect of policing and policy changes that may be needed in certain areas.

According to this study analyzing 917 officer-involved fatal shootings published last August, they found “officers are less likely to fatally shoot Black civilians for fear of public and legal reprisals” and therefore, “all else equal, this would increase the likelihood that a person fatally shot was White vs. Black.” They conclude that “per capita racial disparity in fatal shootings is explained by non-White people’s greater exposure to the police through crime.”

Two caveats to add about this list:

1) The Washington Post database might not find all police related deaths. George Floyd and Eric Garner, for example, weren't shot.
2) This thread is not meant to imply that officers are always justified in shooting people who are armed.

https://www.conservativereview.com/n...cism-policing/
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Old Yesterday, 09:29 AM   #3905
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Default Re: March Madness and Covid-19

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Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
I think there is more to it than that.... Death is the ultimate bad outcome, but the targeting of blacks is definitely a problem with any crime. How much more frequently are they patted down by police? Pulled over? How much more are the police even involved in something because they were called to the scene because the presence of a black person? Like the lady in the park who called the cops on the bird watcher because she was scared of a black person.

That last one isn't the cops fault, but cops are called out to respond to white people being scared of black people fairly regularly. Stuff you and I do all the time can result in a call to the cops, such as:
  • Bird watching in a park
  • Sitting in a Starbucks
  • Selling water for a trip to Disneyland
  • Mowing lawns (a white neighbor saw some black kids mowing grass, which was their summer lawn business, and called the cops)
  • Entering your own apartment (white neighbors stopped the owner of an apartment from entering his own apartment unless he could prove he lived there. When he had the key, they called the cops and reported a breakin)
  • Taking a nap (a Yale University black student was taking a nap in a common area, and they tried to make her prove she was a Yale Student, and the cops were called)

Again, in these cases the police did the right thing (as far as I know), and in some of these cases people donated money to make it right (if you can call it that)... but the point is black peoples interaction with police is likely much higher than yours and mine. Nobody calls the cops on me for mowing grass or trying to come home, or walking around, etc...

This kind of stuff happens all the time.

You may not call those problems "systemic", but when this is how you have to live your life, I think you need to show more empathy to the black experience as a whole.... Your pointing to certain stats and saying "see, the cops arrested tons of black people but didn't kill that many statistically".... That is not the only problem.

Police brutality is not exclusively murder, and is not the only part of systemic racism... Blacks tend to receive longer jail sentences, be sentenced to jail more frequently, stopped by police more often, have the police called on them more often, etc. Black men are 5% of the population and about 35% of the prison population. 1 in 3 black men will spend some time in jail, etc.

And all of those things contribute to the cycle... Black people have a harder time finding great employment than white people do, black communities tend to be poor, with bad schooling, etc... Once you've had interaction with the criminal justice system, your life becomes significantly more difficult, etc.

I mean, we could go on forever with this... but I think your focus on this too narrow. Again, death is the worst outcome, but the death of innocent/unarmed black men makes everything else boil over... So the protests come after a death, but there are a lot of other issues.
What you've described here sounds more like an issue of "profiling" rather than "brutality" and the conflation of the two. Maybe some members of communities view them as "one in the same".....I don't know, I'm not black. But I do think there are a policies that could be put in place to minimize these types of misunderstandings and/or waste of police resources.

The other item that doesn't get talked about a lot is (and you brought it up above) is WHY are the police at a particular scene or circumstance. Typically, police are "called" to a location. I'm not a LEO, but my source is my cousin who is a lieutenant in the San Diego Country Sheriff's Dept. He tells me that they rarely have the resources to provide what we would call "community policing", i.e. patrols out supervising certain areas or neighborhoods. Some cynical people would describe this action as "looking for a reason to pull someone over". But I also acknowledge that many forces/municipalities have some semblance of this strategy in place....especially in higher crime areas. But this tactic is a double-edged sword. People who live in these areas want to live in safe neighborhoods without fear of being terrorized by the bad element of their community. But with this type of approach also comes with instances in which people who are unfairly confronted....leading to mistrust of the police. It's a very difficult balancing act for officers and departments.
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 AM   #3906
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Default Re: March Madness and Covid-19

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Originally Posted by WTSooner View Post
THIS is exactly why I refuse to believe this is a problem on the scale it is being presented on. Sorry, I can't get behind blowing something up this big, that happens so infrequently. Yes, speaking of each individual case where the cops are guilty, it's a terrible thing. But to tear our country apart, not just physically, over something that is happening so infrequently, that infuriates me.

The other is the notion that any time an unarmed black person is killed by a cop that it's a "bad shoot". There are plenty of scenarios where that is not the case, including the incident that started all of this (the kid in Ferguson, MO). That last statement is my opinion, of course.

I'm not unsympathetic to innocent black people getting killed by cops. I just don't believe it's an issue on a large enough scale to warrant the reaction it has gotten over the last 5 years.
racist!
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Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM   #3907
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Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post

  • Bird watching in a park
  • Sitting in a Starbucks
  • Selling water for a trip to Disneyland
  • Mowing lawns (a white neighbor saw some black kids mowing grass, which was their summer lawn business, and called the cops)
  • Entering your own apartment (white neighbors stopped the owner of an apartment from entering his own apartment unless he could prove he lived there. When he had the key, they called the cops and reported a breakin)
  • Taking a nap (a Yale University black student was taking a nap in a common area, and they tried to make her prove she was a Yale Student, and the cops were called)


That's a nice list. Can you name a racial attack, off the top of your head, where a black person was the perpetrator or would you have to conduct a search to find such an incident?

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Old Yesterday, 09:48 AM   #3908
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Default Re: March Madness and Covid-19

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Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
I think there is more to it than that.... Death is the ultimate bad outcome, but the targeting of blacks is definitely a problem with any crime. How much more frequently are they patted down by police? Pulled over? How much more are the police even involved in something because they were called to the scene because the presence of a black person? Like the lady in the park who called the cops on the bird watcher because she was scared of a black person.

That last one isn't the cops fault, but cops are called out to respond to white people being scared of black people fairly regularly. Stuff you and I do all the time can result in a call to the cops, such as:
  • Bird watching in a park
  • Sitting in a Starbucks
  • Selling water for a trip to Disneyland
  • Mowing lawns (a white neighbor saw some black kids mowing grass, which was their summer lawn business, and called the cops)
  • Entering your own apartment (white neighbors stopped the owner of an apartment from entering his own apartment unless he could prove he lived there. When he had the key, they called the cops and reported a breakin)
  • Taking a nap (a Yale University black student was taking a nap in a common area, and they tried to make her prove she was a Yale Student, and the cops were called)

Again, in these cases the police did the right thing (as far as I know), and in some of these cases people donated money to make it right (if you can call it that)... but the point is black peoples interaction with police is likely much higher than yours and mine. Nobody calls the cops on me for mowing grass or trying to come home, or walking around, etc...

This kind of stuff happens all the time.

You may not call those problems "systemic", but when this is how you have to live your life, I think you need to show more empathy to the black experience as a whole.... Your pointing to certain stats and saying "see, the cops arrested tons of black people but didn't kill that many statistically".... That is not the only problem.

Police brutality is not exclusively murder, and is not the only part of systemic racism... Blacks tend to receive longer jail sentences, be sentenced to jail more frequently, stopped by police more often, have the police called on them more often, etc. Black men are 5% of the population and about 35% of the prison population. 1 in 3 black men will spend some time in jail, etc.

And all of those things contribute to the cycle... Black people have a harder time finding great employment than white people do, black communities tend to be poor, with bad schooling, etc... Once you've had interaction with the criminal justice system, your life becomes significantly more difficult, etc.

I mean, we could go on forever with this... but I think your focus on this too narrow. Again, death is the worst outcome, but the death of innocent/unarmed black men makes everything else boil over... So the protests come after a death, but there are a lot of other issues.
I don't think this is up for debate. The stuff in this post happens and happens frequently. Blacks are targeted more than whites. They have more to overcome and they are treated unfairly in the courts.

But I don't think the killing of blacks by cops is the issue here. I just don't see it in the numbers and facts. And this is the main reason people are giving for the protests and riots is innocent black people being killed by police. From what I can find 235 black people were killed by police last year. and all by 9 had a weapon on them when killed. I will concede that having a weapon is not reason to kill someone. But it is an escalation and changes the dynamic of the interaction immensley.
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Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM   #3909
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I don't think this is up for debate. The stuff in this post happens and happens frequently. Blacks are targeted more than whites. They have more to overcome and they are treated unfairly in the courts.

But I don't think the killing of blacks by cops is the issue here. I just don't see it in the numbers and facts. And this is the main reason people are giving for the protests and riots is innocent black people being killed by police. From what I can find 235 black people were killed by police last year. and all by 9 had a weapon on them when killed. I will concede that having a weapon is not reason to kill someone. But it is an escalation and changes the dynamic of the interaction immensley.
I want to make sure I am clear in the point I am trying to make, but I respect your response to my post....

You mention you don't think the killing of blacks by cops is an issue, because statistically it isn't revealed in the numbers...

The point I am trying to make is that black people are constantly profiled, treated unfairly in the courts, treated unfairly in the labor market, etc so and and so forth (information from my previous post) ... That when something like this does happen, I think the outrage of their overall oppression boils over and leads to so much unrest and outrage.

The murder itself was bad, but its a culmination of all the other things facing that black community that it blows up when something like this happens.

The other part that I didn't address is the connection between race and the killing.... When a cop shoots a white guy (which does happen obviously), nobody questions that it was about the skin color. But when someone is killed BECAUSE of their skin color, it becomes a whole different issue. The context is important. It's a hate crime. So while the numbers may not be huge, any killing that is done because of racial profiling or for racial reasons is going to be a much bigger issue than a killing that was done for other reasons.

I read a horrible story a few years ago about a 20 year old couple walking around Riverside, and an armed robbery occurred... The criminal guy literally forced them on their knees at gun point, took like $7 from them, and executed them.... They were ORU students. But unfortunately, that kind of thing happens all too frequently. He killed them because he was desperate for money, starving, insane, or whatever... He didn't kill them because of WHO or WHAT they were.

Ahmaud Arbery, for example, wasn't killed for $7.. As bad as it sounds to kill someone for $7... killing someone because their black is even worse.... He wasn't killed because of what he had. He was basically lynched because he was black.

So, take that to George Floyd... You have to remember the black experience, and black history in this country... I think you are looking at it like the story I just told about the ORU students... It was 4 guys, who happened to be cops, that murdered George Floyd.... But because of history, and everything else that goes along with the black experience.... he was killed for no other reason than being black. That very concept conjures about powerful, horrifying, and awful memories and emotions within the black community.
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Old Yesterday, 10:23 AM   #3910
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That's a nice list. Can you name a racial attack, off the top of your head, where a black person was the perpetrator or would you have to conduct a search to find such an incident?
I don't get the question.
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Old Yesterday, 10:28 AM   #3911
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He didn't kill them because of WHO or WHAT they were.

Ahmaud Arbery, for example, wasn't killed for $7.. As bad as it sounds to kill someone for $7... killing someone because their black is even worse.... He wasn't killed because of what he had. He was basically lynched because he was black.

So, take that to George Floyd... You have to remember the black experience, and black history in this country... I think you are looking at it like the story I just told about the ORU students... It was 4 guys, who happened to be cops, that murdered George Floyd.... But because of history, and everything else that goes along with the black experience.... he was killed for no other reason than being black. That very concept conjures about powerful, horrifying, and awful memories and emotions within the black community.
Ahh, I don't agree with that. You have no idea what motivated the guy to kill the couple at the park. I don't remember that being on Riverside, I remember it being at a park that borders North Tulsa. Maybe he saw them and thought "why are these white folks out North?" You don't know. I don't know.

Same with the others. Arbery wasn't killed because he was black. He was killed because they thought he was the guy responsible for other crimes in that area, who happened to be identified as black. Didn't strike me as a particularly black neighborhood he was jogging in, so he stood out. If it has been a smurf accused of those crimes, and those guys had seen a smurf, the result might have been the same. Or an Asian man. Or a white guy with a mohawk.

You really think this cop in Minnesota killed this guy only because he was black? He woke up that morning, after 20 years on the force, and said today I want to kill a black man? The answer to that question can be no, and he can still be guilty of a crime that locks him away for a long time.

I just don't buy that all of these shootings are always racially motivated. I'm sure the Minnesota cop has interacted with hundreds of black guys over the last few years, and how many of them did he kill?

I think a lot of the black on white crime (murders) is due in large part to race.
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Old Yesterday, 10:31 AM   #3912
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I don't get the question.
Can you name a hate crime where a black person was the guilty party without conducting a search on the internet? You can provide instances where whites are the perp and I'm wondering if you could do the very same when a black person was the instigator. It is a simple question which should at least be afforded a simple answer.

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Old Yesterday, 10:37 AM   #3913
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Can you name a hate crime where a black person was the guilty party without conducting a search on the internet? You can provide instances where whites are the perp and I'm wondering if you could do the very same when a black person was the instigator. It is a simple question which should at least be afforded a simple answer.
No, I can't.
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Old Yesterday, 10:39 AM   #3914
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No, I can't.

Do you believe all hate crime is bad or just some of it? And I appreciate your honest response as it relates to the previous question posited.

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Old Yesterday, 11:34 AM   #3915
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Same with the others. Arbery wasn't killed because he was black. He was killed because they thought he was the guy responsible for other crimes in that area, who happened to be identified as black. Didn't strike me as a particularly black neighborhood he was jogging in, so he stood out.
You serious on that? Guys literally chased him down in a truck, with one guy riding in the back of that truck with a gun. It was like a movie scene from "A Time To Kill" with Matthew McConaughey... You honestly believe those two guys chase down a white guy who is jogging, locked and loaded, and do that?

You can't be serious.

Quote:
You really think this cop in Minnesota killed this guy only because he was black? He woke up that morning, after 20 years on the force, and said today I want to kill a black man? The answer to that question can be no, and he can still be guilty of a crime that locks him away for a long time.
That's kind of a bizarre question.... You think all racists in modern society are just mass murderers? That because he hasn't killed every black person he came across in life that is proof of his innocence? Unfortunately the stars align on these kinds of things, and what happened was a result of a million little things that happened on that day... but I have very little doubt at this moment, after watching the footage, etc that race played a role here. The guy was at the friggin grocery store with a fake $20 bill... 4 cops all pushing down on him, and choking the life out of him for 8 minutes.... He had a fake $20 bill man.

Quote:
I think a lot of the black on white crime (murders) is due in large part to race.
Ok, now your post has gotten even stranger.... The sentence before this, you say you don't believe white cops killing black guys is racially motivated. Then in the very next sentence, you say that you DO think black people killing white people is racially motivated.

Try to imagine yourself saying that in front of an audience of 10,000 people at the Lloyd Noble Center.... Pretty much guarantee that doesn't go over well, lol.

Quote:
Do you believe all hate crime is bad or just some of it? And I appreciate your honest response as it relates to the previous question posited.
Of course all hate crime is bad.... but the comparison I think you are trying to make doesn't hold water. A civilian black guy killing a civilian white guy because he is white is a hate crime, and it should be an outrage. The dude should get life in prison. Same in reverse, in that scenario. It should be equally horrendous. That is PERSON on PERSON crime.

What we are talking about here is SYSTEM vs PERSON crimes... Police represent the state, the government, the criminal justice system. So do prisons, so do judges, etc.
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Old Yesterday, 11:48 AM   #3916
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You serious on that? Guys literally chased him down in a truck, with one guy riding in the back of that truck with a gun. You honestly believe those two guys chase down a white guy who is jogging, locked and loaded, and do that?

You can't be serious.



That's kind of a bizarre question.... You think all racists in modern society are just mass murderers? That because he hasn't killed every black person he came across in life that is proof of his innocence? Unfortunately the stars align on these kinds of things, and what happened was a result of a million little things that happened on that day... but I have very little doubt at this moment, after watching the footage, etc that race played a role here. The guy was at the friggin grocery store with a fake $20 bill... 4 cops all pushing down on him, and choking the life out of him for 8 minutes.... He had a fake $20 bill man.



Ok, now your post has gotten even stranger.... The sentence before this, you say you don't believe white cops killing black guys is racially motivated. Then in the very next sentence, you say that you DO think black people killing white people is racially motivated.

Try to imagine yourself saying that in front of an audience of 10,000 people at the Lloyd Noble Center.... Pretty much guarantee that doesn't go over well, lol.



Of course all hate crime is bad.... but the comparison I think you are trying to make doesn't hold water. A civilian black guy killing a civilian white guy because he is white is a hate crime, and it should be an outrage. The dude should get life in prison. Same in reverse, in that scenario. It should be equally horrendous. That is PERSON on PERSON crime.

What we are talking about here is SYSTEM vs PERSON crimes... Police represent the state, the government, the criminal justice system. So do prisons, so do judges, etc.
I was not singling out a specific case so as to make a comparison for I was just asking a general question.

As illustrated by FBI hate crime statistics, black people commit hate crime at a much higher rate than white people when the population size of the ethnicity is taken in to account. For example, in 2016 26.1% of all hate crime was attributed to blacks when they represent 12.5% of the U.S. population. Looks like more than 100% above their population base. In the same year white people were guilty of 46.3% of hate crime based on a white population base of 60%. This equates to 23% below the population base that is white. This has been going on for years yet most people are not cognizant of it and you illustrated this by not being able to state one hate crime committed by a black person. The link I provide proves my point utilizing years of data gathering and not relying on the media to represent the reality. Did I say media? There is an obvious reason why the media reports only one side of the equation. I also believe ignoring reality just keeps the "status quo" as part of our daily lives when most people are repulsed by it. Go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civi...ts/hate-crimes
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Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM   #3917
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I was not singling out a specific case so as to make a comparison for I was just asking a general question.

As illustrated by FBI hate crime statistics, black people commit hate crime at a much higher rate than white people when the population size of the ethnicity is taken in to account. For example, in 2016 26.1% of all hate crime was attributed to blacks when they represent 12.5% of the U.S. population. Looks like more than 100% above their population base. In the same year white people were guilty of 46.3% of hate crime based on a white population base of 60%. This equates to 23% below the population base that is white. This has been going on for years yet most people are not cognizant of it and you illustrated this by not being able to state one hate crime committed by a black person. The link I provide proves my point utilizing years of data gathering and not relying on the media to represent the reality. Did I say media? There is an obvious reason why the media reports only one side of the equation. I also believe ignoring reality just keeps the "status quo" as part of our daily lives when most people are repulsed by it. Go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civi...ts/hate-crimes
I am pretty sure this is a logical fallacy.... Tu Quoque, to be specific. Means "but you did it too!" as a defense. It's not valid.

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Old Yesterday, 01:31 PM   #3918
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Ahh, I don't agree with that. You have no idea what motivated the guy to kill the couple at the park. I don't remember that being on Riverside, I remember it being at a park that borders North Tulsa. Maybe he saw them and thought "why are these white folks out North?" You don't know. I don't know.

Same with the others. Arbery wasn't killed because he was black. He was killed because they thought he was the guy responsible for other crimes in that area, who happened to be identified as black. Didn't strike me as a particularly black neighborhood he was jogging in, so he stood out. If it has been a smurf accused of those crimes, and those guys had seen a smurf, the result might have been the same. Or an Asian man. Or a white guy with a mohawk.

You really think this cop in Minnesota killed this guy only because he was black? He woke up that morning, after 20 years on the force, and said today I want to kill a black man? The answer to that question can be no, and he can still be guilty of a crime that locks him away for a long time.

I just don't buy that all of these shootings are always racially motivated. I'm sure the Minnesota cop has interacted with hundreds of black guys over the last few years, and how many of them did he kill?

I think a lot of the black on white crime (murders) is due in large part to race.
This is just comical.
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Old Yesterday, 01:48 PM   #3919
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I am pretty sure this is a logical fallacy.... Tu Quoque, to be specific. Means "but you did it too!" as a defense. It's not valid.


You completely missed the point. The point is the media purposely divides blacks and white for political gain. Secondly, how can issues, especially the legitimate ones, be addressed when it is biased in nature? The truth is it cannot for the only solution to societal problems requires an unbiased approach. Yes, unbiased. And furthermore, the issue I speak of is not black versus white, but has any and everything to do with the acceptance of the truth versus the rejection of it. Case in point. If only black hate crime were reported by the media and not white hate crime then your perspective would be different and the action in the streets would also be flipped. Instead of you being unable to list a single black hate crime episode you would not be able to list a white hate crime. Can you please tell me what this solves, as I beg of you to do just that. How about we remove what blinds us from the truth and lets try to see the obvious for what it is as opposed to ignoring it. I've said it before and I will say it again, answers and solutions come from a foundation based upon reality and not delusion, thus if you truly desire answers and solutions then the approach needs to be modified or we will continue to end up with the same chit.

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Old Yesterday, 02:48 PM   #3920
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You completely missed the point. The point is the media purposely divides blacks and white for political gain.
I think what you are trying to say is that the media, like CNN, Fox, and others make huge stories out of these things to change public opinion in their favor, right?

These kinds of stories are kind of rare on cable news networks like CNN, ABC News, Fox, etc... I will say that local news coverage has been a total disaster for blacks and latinos and has led to some other things we have discussed in this thread, like whites being scared of non-whites. There have been some interesting studies done on this, traditionally (going back decades) local news coverage of black and latino crime has been extremely biased against them.

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Case in point. If only black hate crime were reported by the media and not white hate crime then your perspective would be different and the action in the streets would also be flipped. Instead of you being unable to list a single black hate crime episode you would not be able to list a white hate crime.
Right, see my comment above.... It's weird to me that your perspective is that the media makes a big deal about white hate crimes and ignores blacks... Modern lynchings, police brutality, etc are big national stories... but local news, again, has been a complete disaster for blacks and latinos. Hell, multiple studies on the show "Cops" have been done and concluded that the show was biased against blacks.. Once this was discovered, the producers started showing more white crime, which there was plenty of, but they showed mainly white officers arresting black people most of the time.

Maybe I still am reading you wrong, but you seem to be saying that the media makes white on black crime look bad, because they don't report ENOUGH black crime. That just can't be further from the truth.
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Old Yesterday, 04:24 PM   #3921
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google tony timpa in Dallas....

also, maybe....just maybe they reason some white folks are "scared" of black folks is because 50% of violent crime is by black people...

I taught 30 yrs in the urban core. TONS of great people...with that said...we were told to NOT go to our cars alone at night...NOT go down 3rd street at night...(i'm a white dude...duh).

Why? cause there was lots of violence in the neighborhood.

A good friend who has his Doctorate and has been very high level in education once told me...that he has to deal with the prejudiced of basically whites because of the carload of thugs with their loud rap music, pants hanging down etc...that cruise the white neighborhoods.

just my 2 cents
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Old Yesterday, 06:34 PM   #3922
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I'm not aware of anybody questioning that it's manslaughter. Stating that meth and fentanyl did not contribute to Mr Floyd's death, however, is simply an untenable position.

I'm not defending the police officer. I'm refuting the notion that the state-appointed ME is making false medical statements and acting as a puppet for white supremacists.
I didn’t know that notion was being made.
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Old Yesterday, 06:34 PM   #3923
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I think what you are trying to say is that the media, like CNN, Fox, and others make huge stories out of these things to change public opinion in their favor, right?

These kinds of stories are kind of rare on cable news networks like CNN, ABC News, Fox, etc... I will say that local news coverage has been a total disaster for blacks and latinos and has led to some other things we have discussed in this thread, like whites being scared of non-whites. There have been some interesting studies done on this, traditionally (going back decades) local news coverage of black and latino crime has been extremely biased against them.



Right, see my comment above.... It's weird to me that your perspective is that the media makes a big deal about white hate crimes and ignores blacks... Modern lynchings, police brutality, etc are big national stories... but local news, again, has been a complete disaster for blacks and latinos. Hell, multiple studies on the show "Cops" have been done and concluded that the show was biased against blacks.. Once this was discovered, the producers started showing more white crime, which there was plenty of, but they showed mainly white officers arresting black people most of the time.

Maybe I still am reading you wrong, but you seem to be saying that the media makes white on black crime look bad, because they don't report ENOUGH black crime. That just can't be further from the truth.

I think the media treatment for women and gays has changed over the years and has become more favorable to both groups. And because of this it has effected change in society more so than if the status quo was still in effect. I think it is just fair for the media to report hate crime in an equitable manner and not play one side over the other. Fair is fair.
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Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM   #3924
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Apparently, George had tested positive for COVID, so he’s a COVID death now. Even tho he died as a result of “police custody”, he’ll Go down in history as a COVID death.
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