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Old 04-07-2019, 06:24 AM   #1
thebigabd
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Default How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

Does it supercede everything else? Meaning.... Is Texas Tech the second best program in the Big 12 behind KU if they win this? Or would they still be a worse program than OU, OSU, WVU, ISU, etc even though they won something that none of these other programs have?

I was trying to think of an analogy... Let's say you were a treasure Hunter. And treasure hunter "A" has discovered dozens of interesting relics, but treasure hunter "B" discovers the holy grail... The relic of all relics, but never discovered anything else prior to that.

Who had a better career?
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

Depends on how they follow it up. It can be if they keep being successful and win the conference next year even if they don't make as deep a run next year.
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

OSU has a claim to two national titles from the 40’s. Has that not contributed to their reputation as a basketball school?
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

Nattys are the number 1 thing that matter imo. I don't think that it instantly makes tech #2 in the conference but i could honestly be swayed that it does..

I think the analogy is close.. but i don't think there's enough degree of distinction between the treasure and the holy grail. Id say more like deepsea treasurer diver A has found multiple cool historic shipwrecks while no gold or just little coins, deepsea treasurer diver B found a shipwreck with all of the gold once. Then, whos got the better treasure is the precise question, imo
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

I think it's a huge factor, but if this winds up being a short one off phenomenon based on one coach, I'd say no.

The analogy I'd make is Georgia Tech in college football. They shared a national title with Colorado in 1990. They are one of 17 CFB programs to win a title in the last 30 years. Yet I don't think anyone would argue that Georgia Tech is one of the best 17 CFB programs in the last 30 years. I don't even think that anyone would have argued that Georgia Tech was one of the best CFB programs of the 1990s.

Now certainly, if TT wins this one, it will vault them into a totally different conversation, but I think they'd need to sustain some level of success to be considered the 2nd best basketball program in the conference. To me, the measure of a program is more cumulative than just one or two seasons.
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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I think it's a huge factor, but if this winds up being a short one off phenomenon based on one coach, I'd say no.

The analogy I'd make is Georgia Tech in college football. They shared a national title with Colorado in 1990. They are one of 17 CFB programs to win a title in the last 30 years. Yet I don't think anyone would argue that Georgia Tech is one of the best 17 CFB programs in the last 30 years. I don't even think that anyone would have argued that Georgia Tech was one of the best CFB programs of the 1990s.

Now certainly, if TT wins this one, it will vault them into a totally different conversation, but I think they'd need to sustain some level of success to be considered the 2nd best basketball program in the conference. To me, the measure of a program is more cumulative than just one or two seasons.
^^^ This.

TT needs to do everything they can to sustain this success. They have an absolutely outstanding coach, and they need to keep him.

Chris Beard went the Junior College route to become a head coach at the young age of 26 at Fort Scott Community College, then spent one year as head coach at the Junior College in Seminole, Oklahoma. He has learned under Tom Penders (Texas) and Bobby Knight (Texas Tech). He seems to have taken the best traits from those coaches to heart.

After an Elite-8 season, Tech was picked 7th in the 2018-19 Big 12 Preseason Coaches Poll. Talk about exceeding expectations!

Anyway, TT needs to keep Beard. Pick him to finish in the bottom half of the conference at your peril.
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

I wonder if Tech will be able to keep Beard. Big names are going to start courting him. The Gonzaga coach has ignored all the big name schools that have courted him, but I'm not sure Lubbock has the geographic allure of the Pacific Northwest.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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I wonder if Tech will be able to keep Beard. Big names are going to start courting him. The Gonzaga coach has ignored all the big name schools that have courted him, but I'm not sure Lubbock has the geographic allure of the Pacific Northwest.
Hand holding might not be his forte. It is rather silly that is the appearance, which a certain region has, but if the shoe fits.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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I think it's a huge factor, but if this winds up being a short one off phenomenon based on one coach, I'd say no.

The analogy I'd make is Georgia Tech in college football. They shared a national title with Colorado in 1990. They are one of 17 CFB programs to win a title in the last 30 years. Yet I don't think anyone would argue that Georgia Tech is one of the best 17 CFB programs in the last 30 years. I don't even think that anyone would have argued that Georgia Tech was one of the best CFB programs of the 1990s.

Now certainly, if TT wins this one, it will vault them into a totally different conversation, but I think they'd need to sustain some level of success to be considered the 2nd best basketball program in the conference. To me, the measure of a program is more cumulative than just one or two seasons.
Good post.

I think it would mean more for a program like OU to win a NC, b/c we have a pretty darn good bball tradition here, regardless of what Capel and Kruger has done to it (just kidding guys, call down).

Go look at the list of schools with bball NC's. Then look at those that have more than one. It's a pretty small list.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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I wonder if Tech will be able to keep Beard. Big names are going to start courting him. The Gonzaga coach has ignored all the big name schools that have courted him, but I'm not sure Lubbock has the geographic allure of the Pacific Northwest.
After UCLA screwed up the Dixon hire, they still haven't hired Mick Cronin, the other guy rumored for the job. The fact that it's still vacant could mean they're waiting for Tech's season to finish to throw a boatload of cash at Beard.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

Beard is a southern guy, and more specifically, has spent a bunch of time in Texas. I really don't see him leaving TT for UCLA, especially after winning a NC. If he wants another job, the UT job (his alma mater I believe) may be open next year.
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

I still think the overall program at OU is better, but winning a National title is huge. As others have said, it depends on how they Follow it up.

Chris beard is exactly the kind of coach OU would need if we are ever going to win a title. He doesn’t have the most talent but he squeezes every drop out of them. They play hard and they play sound. No laziness. Nothing half ass.
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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Beard is a southern guy, and more specifically, has spent a bunch of time in Texas. I really don't see him leaving TT for UCLA, especially after winning a NC. If he wants another job, the UT job (his alma mater I believe) may be open next year.
I think he might wanna coach in the Big-10 or ACC. I could see him wanting that. It's not a bad thing. He's an excellent coach.
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

Funny...we had this discussion at basketball last Thursday.

Only osu (a/m) in 1945 and 1946...has won a NC....

...besides ku. ��
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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Does it supercede everything else? Meaning.... Is Texas Tech the second best program in the Big 12 behind KU if they win this? Or would they still be a worse program than OU, OSU, WVU, ISU, etc even though they won something that none of these other programs have?

I was trying to think of an analogy... Let's say you were a treasure Hunter. And treasure hunter "A" has discovered dozens of interesting relics, but treasure hunter "B" discovers the holy grail... The relic of all relics, but never discovered anything else prior to that.

Who had a better career?
If Beard leaves, they will go back to being Tech.

As far as your analogy, it's A. No one thinks Kevin Ollie has had a better career than Lon Kruger, despite the fact one has a ring and the other doesn't.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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If Beard leaves, they will go back to being Tech.

As far as your analogy, it's A. No one thinks Kevin Ollie has had a better career than Lon Kruger, despite the fact one has a ring and the other doesn't.
Not talking coaches ... Talking program.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:50 PM   #17
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Not talking coaches ... Talking program.
Same applies. No one would say tech has a better basketball program than a place like Oklahoma. Everyone knows the success is because of beard.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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Same applies. No one would say tech has a better basketball program than a place like Oklahoma. Everyone knows the success is because of beard.
But they have the holy grail, in this scenario.

Which is fine.. that was the point of the question. Which people believe the holy grail is better than lots of other interesting artifacts. You would rather have 40 interesting trinkets than 1 holy grail. That is your opinion.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:27 PM   #19
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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Does it supercede everything else? Meaning.... Is Texas Tech the second best program in the Big 12 behind KU if they win this? Or would they still be a worse program than OU, OSU, WVU, ISU, etc even though they won something that none of these other programs have?

I was trying to think of an analogy... Let's say you were a treasure Hunter. And treasure hunter "A" has discovered dozens of interesting relics, but treasure hunter "B" discovers the holy grail... The relic of all relics, but never discovered anything else prior to that.

Who had a better career?
OU will have had a more storied history than Tech, regardless of Monday night’s outcome

Anyone arguing otherwise is delusional
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:28 PM   #20
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But they have the holy grail, in this scenario.
Troll gonna troll
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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But they have the holy grail, in this scenario.

Which is fine.. that was the point of the question. Which people believe the holy grail is better than lots of other interesting artifacts. You would rather have 40 interesting trinkets than 1 holy grail. That is your opinion.
There's only one holy grail. There are like 80 titles.
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:59 AM   #22
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OU will have had a more storied history than Tech, regardless of Monday night’s outcome

Anyone arguing otherwise is delusional
I'd rather have a title than a history id coming up short.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:15 AM   #23
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

NC State has two NC's, one in my lifetime.

I wouldn't trade programs with them. There are other, similar examples as well.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:28 AM   #24
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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NC State has two NC's, one in my lifetime.

I wouldn't trade programs with them. There are other, similar examples as well.
NC State has won 2 national championships, 17 conference championships, and have 27 NCAA Tournament appearances. As a program they have 1,731 wins.

OU has 0 national championships, 14 conference championships, and have 32 NCAA Tournament Appearances. As a program they have 1,634 wins.

*Information sourced from wikipedia.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: How "program elevating" is a National Championship?

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NC State has won 2 national championships, 17 conference championships, and have 27 NCAA Tournament appearances. As a program they have 1,731 wins.

OU has 0 national championships, 14 conference championships, and have 32 NCAA Tournament Appearances. As a program they have 1,634 wins.

*Information sourced from wikipedia.
That is much closer than I expected, but I'm guessing a large part of their success was before I was born. I glanced at their results in my lifetime, and wasn't overly impressed. A LOT of NIT bids.

Maybe they weren't the best example, but my point still stands. I'm not willing to be a mediocre program over a significant stretch of time just to get a single NC.
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