ouhoops.com
forums roster schedule stats rankings rpi bracketology big xII standings recruiting ouhoopstv

Go Back   OUHoops > Main Category > The Wayman Tisdale Men's Hoops Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-26-2020, 11:24 AM   #1
thebigabd
National Champion
 
thebigabd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,787
Default New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...players-saying
__________________
Lonnie Kruger = YES
thebigabd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 02:01 PM   #2
WTSooner
National Champion
 
WTSooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,059
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

I'm not a fan. In most cases, at least.

But I already see one loophole. It says the transferee can play immediately if not suspended from their current team. I can see situations where a player does something that should result in a suspension, but the coach and player agree on no suspension and a transfer. Helps both. Kid plays immediately at their new school. Coach doesn't have a suspended kid sticking around taking up a scholarship.

College is already starting to look a lot like the pro's. This just adds to it.
__________________
I hate to lose more than I like to win. - Larry Bird, 1998
WTSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 02:48 PM   #3
thebigabd
National Champion
 
thebigabd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,787
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTSooner View Post
I'm not a fan. In most cases, at least.

But I already see one loophole. It says the transferee can play immediately if not suspended from their current team. I can see situations where a player does something that should result in a suspension, but the coach and player agree on no suspension and a transfer. Helps both. Kid plays immediately at their new school. Coach doesn't have a suspended kid sticking around taking up a scholarship.

College is already starting to look a lot like the pro's. This just adds to it.
Interesting take.

I think the current system opens the door to unfairness. Players get granted waivers for certain reasons to play immediately, while others with the same or similar circumstances get rejected.

On top of that, I don't like restrictions on mobility. The Athletic Director, the coaches, the staff, the trainers, etc can all leave if they feel its best for them. But the player can't? Hard to justify, and that is not a decision that fans should be able to influence. Of course fans don't want their players to leave, but it's not up to us where they play.

Even Saban's logic is faulty... He worries he won't be able to manage a roster because players transferred. That is a selfish concern. Maybe they are transferring because you don't have the degree they want? Maybe they never get to play? Maybe they don't like Nick Saban? Maybe they want a fresh start? Anyway, what makes his logic faulty is that it's just as likely that he will benefit from this ruling as much as he will hurt from it. Sure, players will transfer from Alabama, but players will also transfer to Alabama.

To bring it home, the same thing would apply at OU for basketball. Would some players transfer? Sure. Would other players transfer in? Yes.

When the player is the only one who is forced to stay, the system is not just. When your concern is that you can't manage a roster in these conditions, you aren't thinking of the player, you are thinking of yourself. Plus, people will transfer in as well.
__________________
Lonnie Kruger = YES
thebigabd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 03:05 PM   #4
Max Power
Elite Eight
 
Max Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,333
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
Interesting take.

I think the current system opens the door to unfairness. Players get granted waivers for certain reasons to play immediately, while others with the same or similar circumstances get rejected.

On top of that, I don't like restrictions on mobility. The Athletic Director, the coaches, the staff, the trainers, etc can all leave if they feel its best for them. But the player can't? Hard to justify, and that is not a decision that fans should be able to influence. Of course fans don't want their players to leave, but it's not up to us where they play.

Even Saban's logic is faulty... He worries he won't be able to manage a roster because players transferred. That is a selfish concern. Maybe they are transferring because you don't have the degree they want? Maybe they never get to play? Maybe they don't like Nick Saban? Maybe they want a fresh start? Anyway, what makes his logic faulty is that it's just as likely that he will benefit from this ruling as much as he will hurt from it. Sure, players will transfer from Alabama, but players will also transfer to Alabama.

To bring it home, the same thing would apply at OU for basketball. Would some players transfer? Sure. Would other players transfer in? Yes.

When the player is the only one who is forced to stay, the system is not just. When your concern is that you can't manage a roster in these conditions, you aren't thinking of the player, you are thinking of yourself. Plus, people will transfer in as well.
Not to mention scholarships are 1 year contracts. The coach can say nope not renewing and the player is SOL. But if the coach wants to he can auto renew it even if the player doesn't want to. How is that fair? Sure OU might lose a guy we really like, but do we really want to force a kid to stay here that doesn't want to be here?
__________________
"I've got a theory that if you give 100% all of the time, somehow things will work out in the end." - Larry Bird

Max Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 05:12 PM   #5
BCSooners
All-American
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Enid, OK
Posts: 3,023
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

A one year free transfer seems like the way to go as of now. I’d like to see more kids stick it out, but like ABD said the system is so messed up with guys getting waivers for terrible reasons. If the NCAA was consistent then there wouldn’t be a need for this rule.
BCSooners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 06:53 PM   #6
mict085
Starter
 
mict085's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,129
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

What about transferring within the conference? Player gets mad, transfers to rival and plays against team without any repercussions for the player.

I agree most transfers should be allowed. I think that itís getting out of control tho. If players are allowed to transfer so easily and within the conference, One bad offseason of 1-2 transfers could decimate a program for 5 years or more. It will make recruiting even more of a crap shoot.
mict085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 07:41 PM   #7
BCSooners
All-American
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Enid, OK
Posts: 3,023
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mict085 View Post
What about transferring within the conference? Player gets mad, transfers to rival and plays against team without any repercussions for the player.

I agree most transfers should be allowed. I think that itís getting out of control tho. If players are allowed to transfer so easily and within the conference, One bad offseason of 1-2 transfers could decimate a program for 5 years or more. It will make recruiting even more of a crap shoot.
Whatís your solution? I say make everyone sit (except grad transfers) no matter the situation. But if the NCAA wonít do that & keeps allowing waivers then this is the best bet.
BCSooners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 09:07 PM   #8
mict085
Starter
 
mict085's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,129
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCSooners View Post
Whatís your solution? I say make everyone sit (except grad transfers) no matter the situation. But if the NCAA wonít do that & keeps allowing waivers then this is the best bet.
As I said, most transfers should be allowed. However, I would be in favor of making them sit out a year if they transfer within the conference. Outside the conference they wouldnít have to sit out.
mict085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 09:24 PM   #9
BCSooners
All-American
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Enid, OK
Posts: 3,023
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mict085 View Post
As I said, most transfers should be allowed. However, I would be in favor of making them sit out a year if they transfer within the conference. Outside the conference they wouldnít have to sit out.
I see youíre point. But to me itís all or nothing. Either sit out or allow a 1 time deal. Whatís the different between conference transfers & an Xavier to Cincinnati transfer? That transfer would be worse than OU to osu.
BCSooners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 06:41 AM   #10
WaymanFan
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,956
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCSooners View Post
I see youíre point. But to me itís all or nothing. Either sit out or allow a 1 time deal. Whatís the different between conference transfers & an Xavier to Cincinnati transfer? That transfer would be worse than OU to osu.
I honestly do not like the idea of someone transferring to a same-conference school without penalty. That should be automatic. As for Cincinnati and Xavier, I'm guessing they play against each other annually. In that scenario, you can simply add that a player can only transfer to a school without penalty which is not on the schedule the next season of the school they are transferring from. There would still be no shortage of schools they could transfer to...and hardly a strain on the student-athlete.
WaymanFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 07:01 AM   #11
BoulderSooner
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OKlahoma City
Posts: 4,132
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

i don't think this will pass .. .

it would make about 250 basketball programs feeder teams to the top 60

lower ranked player goes to say liberty has a great season so he transfers to duke

(fyi this actually happen with seth curry but he had to sit out a year )

this type of thing will happen all of the time

in football it will be even worse ... great freshman or soph year at KU or isu or osu

OU or texas needs a qb migh as well transfer and get more exposure and win big .
BoulderSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 07:29 AM   #12
CoachTalk
National Champion
 
CoachTalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,417
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
i don't think this will pass .. .

it would make about 250 basketball programs feeder teams to the top 60

lower ranked player goes to say liberty has a great season so he transfers to duke

(fyi this actually happen with seth curry but he had to sit out a year )

this type of thing will happen all of the time

in football it will be even worse ... great freshman or soph year at KU or isu or osu

OU or texas needs a qb migh as well transfer and get more exposure and win big .
I agree.

I donít know the best answer but having to worry about the 10 kids already on team and add the newcomers.... youíd be doing home visits to juniors!
CoachTalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 08:46 AM   #13
WTSooner
National Champion
 
WTSooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,059
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
i don't think this will pass .. .

it would make about 250 basketball programs feeder teams to the top 60

lower ranked player goes to say liberty has a great season so he transfers to duke

(fyi this actually happen with seth curry but he had to sit out a year )

this type of thing will happen all of the time

in football it will be even worse ... great freshman or soph year at KU or isu or osu

OU or texas needs a qb migh as well transfer and get more exposure and win big .
Agreed. And from a football perspective, that much potential roster turnover seems incompatible with the new scholarship limits (per year and per 4 years), even though nobody seems to know EXACTLY how that rule is supposed to work.

I think they just need to keep things how they are, and do a better job of setting out what might qualify for a release, and stick to that. There is already the graduation loophole that allows a free transfer for kids that have graduated. And while it's definitely a loophole, it at least kind of forces them to be in good academic standing.
__________________
I hate to lose more than I like to win. - Larry Bird, 1998
WTSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:13 AM   #14
thebigabd
National Champion
 
thebigabd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,787
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
What about transferring within the conference? Player gets mad, transfers to rival and plays against team without any repercussions for the player.
Is Lincoln Riley not allowed to be the head coach at Baylor? Can Pooh Williamson leave OU and go work for Kansas State? What about Athletic Directors? Could UT hire Joe C? Of course they can.

Can a normal student transfer from Iowa State to OU? Of course they can.

Again, we can't setup a system where only players have restrictions, of any kind. If Brady Manek transfers to OSU... he does that with his own free will and freedom of mobility. He made a choice that he felt like was best for him, his career, etc. Maybe he wants to play with Cade Cunningham next year, maybe he wants to wear the brightest orange possible because it compliments his mustache? Who cares.

Quote:
it would make about 250 basketball programs feeder teams to the top 60...lower ranked player goes to say liberty has a great season so he transfers to duke
You aren't taking into account the reverse... OU would be getting players from the lower 250, but the lower 250 would also be getting players from OU who can't play like Hannes Polla, Matt Freeman, Jordan Shepherd, etc. it would go both ways, and benefit both sides of the spectrum.

Quote:
OU or texas needs a qb migh as well transfer and get more exposure and win big .
This sounds like a good thing to me.

1.) Players have freedom to make choices that are better for themselves, like EVERYONE ELSE associated with the program

2.) Players can go where they are most needed, which helps the team receiving them as well as the player

3.) Players who sign on and find themselves 3rd on the depth chart can look around and say "Hey, I am not seeing the field at OU, but I see Marshall needs an offensive tackle, i will call them"... Now that player, without penalty, can go to Marshall and have his needs met and Marshalls needs met.

I don't understand why freedom of mobility, freedom of choice, etc isn't being respected here. I also don't get why people wouldn't think this would actually benefit schools just as much as it hurts them.

Right now the system clearly favors the coach and the program at the expense of the players... This evens the playing field. In fact, it grants the player the exact same freedom the coach, staff, etc have.
__________________
Lonnie Kruger = YES
thebigabd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:23 AM   #15
BCSooners
All-American
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Enid, OK
Posts: 3,023
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaymanFan View Post
I honestly do not like the idea of someone transferring to a same-conference school without penalty. That should be automatic. As for Cincinnati and Xavier, I'm guessing they play against each other annually. In that scenario, you can simply add that a player can only transfer to a school without penalty which is not on the schedule the next season of the school they are transferring from. There would still be no shortage of schools they could transfer to...and hardly a strain on the student-athlete.
I don't like exceptions to the rule because that's where the current gray area happens, make it were everyone sits or no one sits. Xavier is in Cincinnati, it might be the most heated non-conference rivalry in the country.
BCSooners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:26 AM   #16
thebigabd
National Champion
 
thebigabd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,787
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCSooners View Post
I don't like exceptions to the rule because that's where the current gray area happens, make it were everyone sits or no one sits. Xavier is in Cincinnati, it might be the most heated non-conference rivalry in the country.
And if your player wants to play for the competition, do you really want him on your team anyway? I doubt you would see many transfers like that.
__________________
Lonnie Kruger = YES
thebigabd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:41 AM   #17
BCSooners
All-American
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Enid, OK
Posts: 3,023
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
And if your player wants to play for the competition, do you really want him on your team anyway? I doubt you would see many transfers like that.
You don't think Austin Reaves would've went to WSU's biggest rival to screw Marshall?
BCSooners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:42 AM   #18
BCSooners
All-American
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Enid, OK
Posts: 3,023
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
And if your player wants to play for the competition, do you really want him on your team anyway? I doubt you would see many transfers like that.
Why wouldn't somebody transfer to the same conference? Familiar, location plays a factor, seeing that team up close & liking what they do and how they do it.
BCSooners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:43 AM   #19
thebigabd
National Champion
 
thebigabd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,787
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCSooners View Post
You don't think Austin Reaves would've went to WSU's biggest rival to screw Marshall?
My first point would be that it's none of WVU's business where Reaves wants to play basketball next year.

And the way I understand it, he already screwed Ms. Marshall.
__________________
Lonnie Kruger = YES
thebigabd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:48 AM   #20
BCSooners
All-American
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Enid, OK
Posts: 3,023
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
My first point would be that it's none of WVU's business where Reaves wants to play basketball next year.

And the way I understand it, he already screwed Ms. Marshall.
You said we wouldn't see transfers like that, I think we would.
BCSooners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:49 AM   #21
vbdad
Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,041
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
i don't think this will pass .. .

it would make about 250 basketball programs feeder teams to the top 60

lower ranked player goes to say liberty has a great season so he transfers to duke

(fyi this actually happen with seth curry but he had to sit out a year )

this type of thing will happen all of the time

in football it will be even worse ... great freshman or soph year at KU or isu or osu

OU or texas needs a qb migh as well transfer and get more exposure and win big .
I agree! It will just help the rich get richer. I don't know what the answer is as I feel for the players. The problem is kids will go to a school and when a Kentucky, Duke, KU or someone similar has a 1 and done and doesn't sign the next superstar they will get a starter from another school. This will just snowball to a lower school providing a replacement to school who lost a player to Duke.

As far as the coaches being able to move it is wrong. The NCAA needs to enforce contracts on these guys. They shouldn't be able to switch schools until their contract has expired. I know that I'm dreaming that this will ever change.

So yes there is a huge double standard so the players probably should be allowed to transfer but it will hurt basketball even more.
vbdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 10:10 AM   #22
BoulderSooner
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OKlahoma City
Posts: 4,132
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbdad View Post
I agree! It will just help the rich get richer. I don't know what the answer is as I feel for the players. The problem is kids will go to a school and when a Kentucky, Duke, KU or someone similar has a 1 and done and doesn't sign the next superstar they will get a starter from another school. This will just snowball to a lower school providing a replacement to school who lost a player to Duke.

As far as the coaches being able to move it is wrong. The NCAA needs to enforce contracts on these guys. They shouldn't be able to switch schools until their contract has expired. I know that I'm dreaming that this will ever change.

So yes there is a huge double standard so the players probably should be allowed to transfer but it will hurt basketball even more.
just to add and point out that the schools voting on this is all of D1 so 350+ schools ..

i don't think 300 schools are going to vote for something not in their interest ..




if you want to take it a step further this Plus NIL money possibly becoming legal ( and i think congress will step in before that happens)

and you have true free agency in college football and basketball star at osu come to ou and make an extra 100k ect ..
BoulderSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 10:26 AM   #23
WTSooner
National Champion
 
WTSooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,059
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
Is Lincoln Riley not allowed to be the head coach at Baylor? Can Pooh Williamson leave OU and go work for Kansas State? What about Athletic Directors? Could UT hire Joe C? Of course they can.

I think this is a bad example.

Lincoln Riley and other coaches are employed. It's a job. A profession. Yes they are COACHING amateur athletes, but them themselves are not amateur athletes. It's a lot like how different levels of "employees" have different rules in business. What the CEO can do is different than what the entry level employee can do.

And most coaches can't leave for another job without repercussions. Most have buy outs. That is either money out of the coach's pocket, or money out of his new school's pocket. Either way, there is a price for them leaving. There should be a price for most athletes transferring too. Let's not forget.....even though college football/basketball is a big business, it's still a college. It's still SUPPOSED to be about education, and higher learning. We keep getting further and further away from that.
__________________
I hate to lose more than I like to win. - Larry Bird, 1998
WTSooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 11:10 AM   #24
SoonerinNC
All-Conference
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,596
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

I don't think you can really compare coaches and athletes with a scholarship

I believe that the change will benefit the elites at the expense of at least the mid-majors. Would take away some of the advantage that some programs gain by silently recruiting players to transfer. It would certainly open up opportunity for the elite and major programs to cheat and solicit transfers. I doubt that Kruger would do that so probably disadvantage OU.

I also agree that the NCAA is flagrantly inconsistent with granting waivers to some and not to others. Ditto the Medical redshirt.

They need to be consistent whatever rule. Allowing immediate eligibility will continue to move the college sport scene toward professionalism. Making everyone sit no matter the reason for the transfer keeps at least some degree of the student athlete.
SoonerinNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 08:17 AM   #25
vbdad
Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,041
Default Re: New NCAA Transfer Policy Proposal

The people backing this are thinking it gives a kid who isn't playing the opportunity to find a place to play. This is true and I think beneficial to the kid. The problem is it also lets all schools be a farm system to the schools players feel are more elite. This way the best player on a team leaves and goes to a better school.

I personally believe it is even worse for football. I guarantee Lincoln Riley had no problem with the 7-8 guys who left OU this year. None of them were going to play. He has already brought in 2 receivers who should be in the rotation plus it freed up more room on the 85 total for recruits who potentially will be starters. OSU is likely to have 2 defensive starters that transferred to them. They lost a bunch of guys also none of which were in the rotation.
vbdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Hosted By: URLJet.com