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Old 12-04-2011, 12:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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I have been consistently saying this about Stoops since the USC game. He's not a good gameday coach. He's not very smart Im afraid. The timeout vs Baylor was just another glaring example of a deer caught in the headlights.
I think you're being a prisoner of the moment because of last night's debacle. It was bad, sure, but all things considered since 2000 Stoops has proven that he is about as good as it is regarding game day coaching. Check his record against ranked teams and you will see that too.

The Big 12 has probably been the 2nd best conference since 2004 (your reference dating back to the USC loss), and a couple of those years they've arguably been the best. Considering Stoops has owned the league since then, it's hard to make an argument that he should get canned.

As for the Baylor gaffe, yeah that was bad. But no coach is infallible. They are all human, after all. Every coach has made a mistake like that one time or another, even the great ones.

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Our 2000 title was a gift. If we played Miami, which would occur now, it would have been another Big Bob Blowout. Not a chance we would have hung with that team.
Considering Miami didn't finish the regular season undefeated, and barely defeated Florida State (despite being outplayed), I'm not near as confident they would've beaten OU in 2000 as you are.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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OU has Reggie Smith, Quinton Carter, Dominique Franks, Brodney Pool & Jonathan Nelson in NFL rosters.

How many does Alabama, LSU, Florida or USC have? Doubt it's more than 5 each. OU has the same talent as the other big boys.

Anyway, my original thesis holds. The days of Stoops beating up on Mack and then some untalented fraud from the North like Nebraska, Missouri or Colorado to win conference titles are over. West Virginia & TCU are coming and Stoops will have to beat everybody to win and he has never shown the ability to do that.
OU hasn't had near the talent in the secondary that Alabama and LSU have had recently, and I believe both do have more players currently in the NFL (and absolutely have more NFL starters).

Annual games vs. Iowa State and kansas (and a soon to be Snyderless ksu when he eventually retires for good) will definitely be a more challenging schedule for OU going forward. WVU's last second win over a 5-win USF team was pretty impressive, too...
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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OU has Reggie Smith, Quinton Carter, Dominique Franks, Brodney Pool & Jonathan Nelson in NFL rosters.

How many does Alabama, LSU, Florida or USC have? Doubt it's more than 5 each. OU has the same talent as the other big boys.

Anyway, my original thesis holds. The days of Stoops beating up on Mack and then some untalented fraud from the North like Nebraska, Missouri or Colorado to win conference titles are over. West Virginia & TCU are coming and Stoops will have to beat everybody to win and he has never shown the ability to do that.
It's not like the Big 12 is adding the Steelers and Packers. West Virginia and TCU are upgrades over Mizzou and A&M, but it's not something OU can't handle. I don't think its a foregone conclusion that the new-era Big 12 will be consistently tougher, anyways (when comparing to the pre-realignment Big 12). Nebraska, Missouri, and A&M weren't world beaters, but when you factor in Nebraska I think it's debatable when concerning which Big 12 makeup will be tougher. Only time will tell.

It remains to be seen whether Stoops can win the conference going forward. Considering he's done it in years in which the Big 12 was arguably the best conference in the country, I have faith he'll get it done again too.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:47 PM   #29
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TCU is turning into a giant. They have been quietly creeping up the top 25 recruiting rankings even before joining the Big XII. West Virginia just won their conference again and is off to another BCS Bowl.

Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri & A&M have combined to win 1 BCS Bowl ever. West Virginia & TCU have won 3 and will possibly both be going to BCS bowls again this season. Nebraska had a run of success in the 90s that exaggerates their greatness. Did you know that no coach at Nebraska has a winning record vs OU since the 1940s? Other than the Tommie Frazier teams Nebraska always lost against top 10 teams outside the Big 8.

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Old 12-04-2011, 12:54 PM   #30
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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OU hasn't had near the talent in the secondary that Alabama and LSU have had recently, and I believe both do have more players currently in the NFL (and absolutely have more NFL starters).

Annual games vs. Iowa State and kansas (and a soon to be Snyderless ksu when he eventually retires for good) will definitely be a more challenging schedule for OU going forward. WVU's last second win over a 5-win USF team was pretty impressive, too...
When discussing the NFL, are you specifically referring to NFL players and starters in the secondary, or overall? Because I'm pretty sure Stoops has more starters and more players on NFL rosters than Bama does. However given the amount of NFL talent Saban currently has right now, I expect that to change in the near future.

And good point about West Virginia. They're a solid program and an upgrade over A&M, but it's not like they are a juggernaut or anything. They haven't been an elite team since 2007.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:57 PM   #31
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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TCU is turning into a giant. They have been quietly creeping up the top 25 recruiting rankings even before joining the Big XII. West Virginia just won their conference again and is off to another BCS Bowl.

Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri & A&M have combined to win 1 BCS Bowl ever. West Virginia & TCU have won 3 and will possibly both be going to BCS bowls again this season.
Keep in mind that TCU and West Virginia have been playing in softer leagues, where BCS appearances are easier.

Make no mistake about it TCU and West Virginia collectively are upgrades over the A&M/Missouri duo (mainly due to A&M's ineptitude). But I expect TCU and West Virginia's BCS appearances to take a slide. They are good programs, but it's nothing Stoops can't handle.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

Remind me what Stoops record is vs TCU/West Virginia.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

Bob Stoops has won seven Big XII championships, his record vs. top 25 teams in 44-18, and his career win/loss is 138-34. His is one of the three best coaches in college football, and one disappointing season does not change that.

The team that creamed us last night was possibly the best that OSU will ever have; where as, Oklahoma was playing with a first year offensive play-caller and a roster depleted by injuries. I do not mean to discredit what OSU has done this year, I believe that they deserve a shot at LSU, but anyone who believes that Bob Stoops career is over is ignorant and obsessed with tacky anecdotal evidence.

Edit: Stoops has also played in 4 national championship games in one decade (40%). It's true that his record in those games is 1-3, but that's one of those problems you'd like to have.

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Old 12-04-2011, 01:10 PM   #34
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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Remind me what Stoops record is vs TCU/West Virginia.
1-1 vs TCU and 0-1 vs WVU -- completely useless statistics.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:12 PM   #35
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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Remind me what Stoops record is vs TCU/West Virginia.
1-2. Hardly a big enough sample size to suggest that Stoops won't win the conference again thanks to the addition of those two programs.

Besides, didn't Stoops throttle TCU the last time they played, anyways?

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=282710201
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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Bob Stoops has won seven Big XII championships, his record vs. top 25 teams in 44-18, and his career win/loss is 138-34. His is one of the three best coaches in college football, and one disappointing season does not change that.

The team that creamed us last night was possibly the best that OSU will ever have; where as, Oklahoma was playing with a first year offensive play-caller and a roster depleted by injuries. I do not mean to discredit what OSU has done this year, I believe that they deserve a shot at LSU, but anyone who believes that Bob Stoops career is over is ignorant and obsessed with tacky anecdotal evidence.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:34 PM   #37
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It's good to know your irrational thoughts aren't limited to basketball only.
Good one!!
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:36 PM   #38
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Sheesh. A lot of misinformation in this thread.

I just want to add this.....don't assume that because Bama/LSU/UF/USC holds a team to 24 points or whatever, that they have figured out the spread, or even stopped it. Did USC stop Oregon this year when they gave up 500 yards and 35 points? Did LSU and Bama stop the Tebow-spread that UF had for a few years? Keep in mind that those SEC teams run the ball more, keep the clock running, and therefore having fewer possessions in general. Lower yardage, or lower points per game doesn't really tell you how much more efficient, or not, they have been.

And truth be told, I don't think those defenses stopped OU. Not against LSU, and not against UF. Injuries, simple player mistakes/miscues, and a conservative game plan did us in as much as anything.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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TCU is turning into a giant. They have been quietly creeping up the top 25 recruiting rankings even before joining the Big XII. West Virginia just won their conference again and is off to another BCS Bowl.

Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri & A&M have combined to win 1 BCS Bowl ever. West Virginia & TCU have won 3 and will possibly both be going to BCS bowls again this season. Nebraska had a run of success in the 90s that exaggerates their greatness. Did you know that no coach at Nebraska has a winning record vs OU since the 1940s? Other than the Tommie Frazier teams Nebraska always lost against top 10 teams outside the Big 8.
West Virginia just earned a tie in a mid-major level conference on a last-second field goal over a 5-win team.

Nice spin on the "combined to win 1 BCS Bowl ever." Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and A&M are far more historically relevant than TCU and West Virginia.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:50 PM   #40
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I don't like the spread offense. I'm sorry, I just enjoy seeing teams hold onto the ball and create long, meaningful scoring drives. I enjoy seeing points go on the board and six or seven minutes coming off of it.

I just don't like the spread offense. It's not us. We're Oklahoma. We run the ball. We've been running it since Tom Stidham took us to the Orange Bowl in the late 30s. I like whipping the guy in front of you and running through the hole. I abhor depending on the variables of the passing game. I like knowing a good seal by the guard is the difference between one yard or five yards. I hate depending on a good snap in the Pistol, a good cut by the receiver, a good throw by the quarterback and a good catch by the receiver.

It's just not my style of football. I like a touchdown to mean something. If Georgia Tech only had a defense it'd be like I was five years old again. Nice tackle, Sonny Brown.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:00 PM   #41
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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Sheesh. A lot of misinformation in this thread.

I just want to add this.....don't assume that because Bama/LSU/UF/USC holds a team to 24 points or whatever, that they have figured out the spread, or even stopped it. Did USC stop Oregon this year when they gave up 500 yards and 35 points? Did LSU and Bama stop the Tebow-spread that UF had for a few years? Keep in mind that those SEC teams run the ball more, keep the clock running, and therefore having fewer possessions in general. Lower yardage, or lower points per game doesn't really tell you how much more efficient, or not, they have been.

And truth be told, I don't think those defenses stopped OU. Not against LSU, and not against UF. Injuries, simple player mistakes/miscues, and a conservative game plan did us in as much as anything.
The more I see Demarco tearing up the NFL, the more I cringe knowing he didn't play vs. Florida in '08. We'll never know what happened, but he was a game breaker that OU could've used that night.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:01 PM   #42
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When discussing the NFL, are you specifically referring to NFL players and starters in the secondary, or overall? Because I'm pretty sure Stoops has more starters and more players on NFL rosters than Bama does. However given the amount of NFL talent Saban currently has right now, I expect that to change in the near future.

And good point about West Virginia. They're a solid program and an upgrade over A&M, but it's not like they are a juggernaut or anything. They haven't been an elite team since 2007.
I was talking specifically of players in the secondary.

Speaking of overall NFL starters, though, I'm pretty sure there will be more Mizzou alumni starting on NFL defenses this weekend than OU, which further illustrates the point that Stoops, for all the success he's had in recruiting, has not done as well developing that talent as he maybe should have. The number of NFL starters is hardly the best metric to measure him by, I'll admit, but I think most people would look at OU's recruits on paper and look at the finished products and say they don't quite look like they should.

Stoops has done an outstanding job of putting OL in the NFL, though. The Redskins start three OU players on their OL, which is pretty damn impressive.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:25 PM   #43
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I don't like the spread offense. I'm sorry, I just enjoy seeing teams hold onto the ball and create long, meaningful scoring drives. I enjoy seeing points go on the board and six or seven minutes coming off of it.

I just don't like the spread offense. It's not us. We're Oklahoma. We run the ball. We've been running it since Tom Stidham took us to the Orange Bowl in the late 30s. I like whipping the guy in front of you and running through the hole. I abhor depending on the variables of the passing game. I like knowing a good seal by the guard is the difference between one yard or five yards. I hate depending on a good snap in the Pistol, a good cut by the receiver, a good throw by the quarterback and a good catch by the receiver.

It's just not my style of football. I like a touchdown to mean something. If Georgia Tech only had a defense it'd be like I was five years old again. Nice tackle, Sonny Brown.
I agree with ya... run the ball! I wish they would install that Bill Snyder K-State type of offense. Pound people with the run, have a dynamic play-maker at QB who can run/pass, and hit them with deep throws.

Collin Klein (not even close to being the best QB Snyder has had in that offense), threw for 1700 yards and 12 touchdowns and ran for 1300 yards and 26 touchdowns. Awesome. That is way more impressive to me than Case Keenum throwing short screens on his way to 500 yards a game.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:28 PM   #44
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I was talking specifically of players in the secondary.

Speaking of overall NFL starters, though, I'm pretty sure there will be more Mizzou alumni starting on NFL defenses this weekend than OU, which further illustrates the point that Stoops, for all the success he's had in recruiting, has not done as well developing that talent as he maybe should have. The number of NFL starters is hardly the best metric to measure him by, I'll admit, but I think most people would look at OU's recruits on paper and look at the finished products and say they don't quite look like they should.

Stoops has done an outstanding job of putting OL in the NFL, though. The Redskins start three OU players on their OL, which is pretty damn impressive.
I agree with your point to a certain extent. As for the comparison with Mizzou, I'm not positive but I am willing to bet OU has more defensive starters in the NFL than Mizzou does. But like I said, not 100% sure.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:30 PM   #45
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West Virginia just earned a tie in a mid-major level conference on a last-second field goal over a 5-win team.

Nice spin on the "combined to win 1 BCS Bowl ever." Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and A&M are far more historically relevant than TCU and West Virginia.
And this is why Missouri and A&M are perfect fits for the SEC. You're completely irrelevant and too stupid to know it.

BCS Bowl victories are not spin. They are undisputed accomplishments. Something Missouri football would not understand.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:35 PM   #46
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For you Stoops apologists please ask yourself to compare how many times Stoops has defeated a higher ranked team vs losing to lower ranked, unranked teams.

His record is terrible in that regard. Bottom line Stoops has run up his record by simply out talenting overrated Big XII patsies and those days are over.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:43 PM   #47
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Default Re: Am I the only one who is sick of football?

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For you Stoops apologists please ask yourself to compare how many times Stoops has defeated a higher ranked team vs losing to lower ranked, unranked teams.

His record is terrible in that regard. Bottom line Stoops has run up his record by simply out talenting overrated Big XII patsies and those days are over.
That rationale applies to the majority of coaches at top tier programs. Since Saban's days dating back to LSU, I'm willing to bet that trend is the same for him as well. And I am willing to bet Stoops' record is not "terrible" in that regard, either. His record vs. ranked teams proves that.

Upsets happen. That's what makes college football so unpredictable. I don't think you are looking at this from both perspectives, because if you did you would see the litany of accomplishments Stoops has reached, not to mention the fact that he has been a bounce or two from claiming two other National Titles. Call for Stoops' head all you want, just know that his accomplishments he compiled haven't been against these "cupcakes". All due respect boca, but you are overhyping the newly-formed Big 12 way too much.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:43 PM   #48
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For you Stoops apologists please ask yourself to compare how many times Stoops has defeated a higher ranked team vs losing to lower ranked, unranked teams.

His record is terrible in that regard. Bottom line Stoops has run up his record by simply out talenting overrated Big XII patsies and those days are over.
Why do you keep bringing up these meaningless stats?

When you are consistently a top 10 team, you are going to have FAR more games against lower ranked opponents. Doesn't prove a thing.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:45 PM   #49
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For you Stoops apologists please ask yourself to compare how many times Stoops has defeated a higher ranked team vs losing to lower ranked, unranked teams.

His record is terrible in that regard. Bottom line Stoops has run up his record by simply out talenting overrated Big XII patsies and those days are over.
This coming from a Caple apologist
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:48 PM   #50
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And this is why Missouri and A&M are perfect fits for the SEC. You're completely irrelevant and too stupid to know it.

BCS Bowl victories are not spin. They are undisputed accomplishments. Something Missouri football would not understand.
Their wins over Georgia in '05 and OU in '07 definitely were accomplishments. It'll be interesting to see if Rich Rodriguez is able to replicate that success at Arizona after failing to do so at Michigan.

An Orange Bowl berth (or even a win) against Clemson this year... yeah, that's nothing to brag about.
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