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Old 02-10-2019, 12:13 PM   #26
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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Lon and Harmon will be here next year so go ahead and jump off the bandwagon. Donít bother coming back when Lon rights the ship either.
I hope u r right. I just canít believe in it anymore.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

I was Lon's biggest critic during Buddy's tenure, yet somehow I'm almost a Lon supporter compared to you guys now. Maybe it's because of how realistic I was that I'm able to handle this slump. Anyway, I have just one thing I want to say:

At this time next year, Lon's job won't be on the line.

(And no, that's not my way of saying he'll be fired. I do think a Kruger should be finding a new job soon, but not Lon.)
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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Lon and Harmon will be here next year so go ahead and jump off the bandwagon. Donít bother coming back when Lon rights the ship either.
So you have enjoyed these last three years of Sooner Basketball?Lon will be back next year unless he decides he is tired of it,but $3.1mill would make me want to come back.That said Lon deserves another year to get this mess cleaned up & get back to winning.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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You are likely correct. I don't think Joe will pull the trigger. The wild card is President Gallogly and the Board of Regents. I think Joe wanted to give Jeff Capel another season, but higher powers prevailed at that time.
I disagree. I flew from KC to OKC with Joe C the day after Capel's last game -- a double digit loss to OSU in KC. I acknowledged Joe and I was wearing OU gear. (Clearly Joe thought my ex-wife and I were OU fans who traveled to KC to watch OU but we were actually on our way to Las Vegas for a friends wedding.) Anyway Joe said to me, "thanks for your support and we are going to fix this basketball program". About 2 days later we started hearing rumors of Capel getting fired and it happened shortly thereafter.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:47 PM   #30
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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So you have enjoyed these last three years of Sooner Basketball?Lon will be back next year unless he decides he is tired of it,but $3.1mill would make me want to come back.That said Lon deserves another year to get this mess cleaned up & get back to winning.
Yes ... He made the dance last season and the Final Four 4 yrs ago, Sweet 16 the year before that. Joe C wants a good workplace for his coaches so cutthroat firings don't build that. Too many threads about getting rid of Lon don't help one bit. Although we know this lousy run can't continue much longer, one way or the other. This new recruiting class gives Lon several better players.

People wanted Switzer out in 83, he turned it around.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:35 PM   #31
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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Lon and Harmon will be here next year so go ahead and jump off the bandwagon. Donít bother coming back when Lon rights the ship either.
I won't. Know why? Because a year or two after Lon "rights the ship", we'll be right back to this point. It's his M.O. And it doesn't please me.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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This new recruiting class gives Lon several better players.
Not really. I know I can't convince you or most others of that, but wait and see. Harmon is going to look a lot like Bienemy did this year. In other words, not much of an offensive threat. Reaves will help, but I don't think he'll be enough. Still not going to have any inside game. And it's a class full of guys that won't contribute much for 2-3 years. IMO.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:51 PM   #33
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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I won't. Know why? Because a year or two after Lon "rights the ship", we'll be right back to this point. It's his M.O. And it doesn't please me.
I disagree but know I wont convince you otherwise.

There is depth here. With several freshmen.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:11 PM   #34
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I disagree but know I wont convince you otherwise.

There is depth here. With several freshmen.
What does depth have to do with my comment? We had depth a few years back.

Lon's career is full of ups and downs. And not the normal kind. BIG swings. Constant roster turnover. No continuity over 2/3/4 year periods.

I have no doubt if Lon sticks around he'll have better years. I also have no doubt if he sticks around we'll have some more pitiful ones.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:16 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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I disagree but know I wont convince you otherwise.

There is depth here. With several freshmen.
Also, rather than taking jabs at me, why don't you worry about your own team? I can see why you like Lon so much, you have a lot in common with him. Poor team. Both on 4 game losing streaks. At least Lon is keeping them above .500. So far.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:18 PM   #36
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What does depth have to do with my comment? We had depth a few years back.

Lon's career is full of ups and downs. And not the normal kind. BIG swings. Constant roster turnover. No continuity over 2/3/4 year periods.

I have no doubt if Lon sticks around he'll have better years. I also have no doubt if he sticks around we'll have some more pitiful ones.
Depth has to do with you said we'll be right back here again. I dont think thats the case. A few years ago we went to the final 4... Guys didnt develop like we all wouldve wanted. Of course thats on the coaches.

Roster turnover? Do you mean every program in NCAA basketball?

Of course, there are ups and downs.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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Also, rather than taking jabs at me, why don't you worry about your own team? I can see why you like Lon so much, you have a lot in common with him. Poor team. Both on 4 game losing streaks. At least Lon is keeping them above .500. So far.
Haha! Didnt see you mention the last 3-4 years.

Back to personal attacks... Good for you.

I cant recruit i guess is the difference. We'll be back, just takes time.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:23 PM   #38
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Depth has to do with you said we'll be right back here again. I dont think thats the case. A few years ago we went to the final 4... Guys didnt develop like we all wouldve wanted. Of course thats on the coaches.

Roster turnover? Do you mean every program in NCAA basketball?

Of course, there are ups and downs.
OU shouldn't need a top 5 NBA draft pick that is from our back yard to avoid being left out of the Dance 3 years in a row. Yet, that is likely to be the case.

What makes you think we won't continue having development issues? That seems more likely than lucking into the next Buddy.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: Is keeping Lon worth Harmon?

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Depth has to do with you said we'll be right back here again. I dont think thats the case. A few years ago we went to the final 4... Guys didnt develop like we all wouldve wanted. Of course thats on the coaches.

Roster turnover? Do you mean every program in NCAA basketball?

Of course, there are ups and downs.
Lon's recruiting has been absolutely atrocious. I do like next year's class, although it still has the kind of shot in the dark projects that have not worked for him and have screwed the roster numbers since he's been here.

My biggest gripe with bringing him back is that he's 67 years old. What is the point of keeping him around when he should be aging out soon regardless. Why should we prolong the Lon era for 3-4 more years when we could go find our next guy? It's not like Lon is some OU lifer who has earned the right to go out on his own terms. He's a guy who was paid handsomely to turn this program around, and he did that, but he hasn't carried that momentum forward.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:26 PM   #40
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Lon's recruiting has been absolutely atrocious. I do like next year's class, although it still has the kind of shot in the dark projects that have not worked for him and have screwed the roster numbers since he's been here.

My biggest gripe with bringing him back is that he's 67 years old. What is the point of keeping him around when he should be aging out soon regardless. Why should we prolong the Lon era for 3-4 more years when we could go find our next guy? It's not like Lon is some OU lifer who has earned the right to go out on his own terms. He's a guy who was paid handsomely to turn this program around, and he did that, but he hasn't carried that momentum forward.
Dont get me wrong, I get the frustrations. I think next year will be his last and hang it up, if not this year.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:29 PM   #41
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What does depth have to do with my comment? We had depth a few years back.

Lon's career is full of ups and downs. And not the normal kind. BIG swings. Constant roster turnover. No continuity over 2/3/4 year periods.

I have no doubt if Lon sticks around he'll have better years. I also have no doubt if he sticks around we'll have some more pitiful ones.
I'd be curious if you could give many examples of teams who don't have lots of roster turnover at the Power 5 level. The blue chip teams lose guys to the pros, other schools lose them to transfers. We probably have more guys stay three or four years than most programs these days. ISU is transfer U, Texas always has new guys, Tech has a new team this year, OSU speaks for itself. KSU has a great senior class, but they are the one exception I see in our league.

I also wonder ... do all the people who cry nepotism about Lon hiring his son have the same complaint about Kelvin and Kellen? Or is that one of those flexible principles that only gets brought up when things are going south? Something tells me people aren't complaining about it as it applies to the softball program.

And I'm pretty bummed to already find out that next year's class isn't going to pan out. At least give people a heads up that a spoiler alert is coming!
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:40 PM   #42
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I also wonder ... do all the people who cry nepotism about Lon hiring his son have the same complaint about Kelvin and Kellen? Or is that one of those flexible principles that only gets brought up when things are going south? Something tells me people aren't complaining about it as it applies to the softball program.
Not sure why this part of your comment was put in a post that quoted mine. I've never really criticized any of the OU coaches for nepotism. Because if you are going to bash Lon and Sherri for it now, you also have to bash Bob for it in 1999 (worked out well for several years then) and Gasso (TONS of success). I don't think it's that big of a deal. Coaches tend to want to work with people they know. None of them are going to sabotage their careers or contracts just to employ a family member that could be otherwise employed. Doesn't mean it's always going to work out, but it happens around the country. But again, I don't think I've ever made a single comment criticizing an OU coach for hiring a family member.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:07 PM   #43
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I'd be curious if you could give many examples of teams who don't have lots of roster turnover at the Power 5 level. The blue chip teams lose guys to the pros, other schools lose them to transfers. We probably have more guys stay three or four years than most programs these days. ISU is transfer U, Texas always has new guys, Tech has a new team this year, OSU speaks for itself. KSU has a great senior class, but they are the one exception I see in our league.

I also wonder ... do all the people who cry nepotism about Lon hiring his son have the same complaint about Kelvin and Kellen? Or is that one of those flexible principles that only gets brought up when things are going south? Something tells me people aren't complaining about it as it applies to the softball program.

And I'm pretty bummed to already find out that next year's class isn't going to pan out. At least give people a heads up that a spoiler alert is coming!

It's really not that hard to realize why nepotism is bad. It has nothing to do with whether or not a coach's kid can be a good coach as well. Clearly they can be. The problem is that if they aren't doing a good job their family member is not going to fire them. That has always been the problem.

Have you ever considered not just being a ridiculous contrarian?
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:44 PM   #44
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What does depth have to do with my comment? We had depth a few years back.

Lon's career is full of ups and downs. And not the normal kind. BIG swings. Constant roster turnover. No continuity over 2/3/4 year periods.

I have no doubt if Lon sticks around he'll have better years. I also have no doubt if he sticks around we'll have some more pitiful ones.
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Not sure why this part of your comment was put in a post that quoted mine. I've never really criticized any of the OU coaches for nepotism. Because if you are going to bash Lon and Sherri for it now, you also have to bash Bob for it in 1999 (worked out well for several years then) and Gasso (TONS of success). I don't think it's that big of a deal. Coaches tend to want to work with people they know. None of them are going to sabotage their careers or contracts just to employ a family member that could be otherwise employed. Doesn't mean it's always going to work out, but it happens around the country. But again, I don't think I've ever made a single comment criticizing an OU coach for hiring a family member.
Yeah I didn't mean to single you out for that, my fault for not making that clear. It just seems in general, there are a lot of people on here who constantly bring that issue up, yet on the other hand, speak so highly of Kelvin while not acknowledging that he did the same thing with his son. But again, I apologize for making it seem like this was related to your post, I was just trying to put multiple thoughts in one post rather than posting several times.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:59 PM   #45
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It's really not that hard to realize why nepotism is bad. It has nothing to do with whether or not a coach's kid can be a good coach as well. Clearly they can be. The problem is that if they aren't doing a good job their family member is not going to fire them. That has always been the problem.

Have you ever considered not just being a ridiculous contrarian?
Two questions for you. One, how do you function given your obsession with me? You simply can't handle it if I have a different opinion than you, even if my post isn't at all related to anything you've said. My post had nothing to do with you and yet you had to take a personal shot at me.

Second, in your every day life, are you incapable of functioning unless everyone you encounter has the exact viewpoint you have? The fact that you think I'm a contrarian is hysterical to me. I don't care enough about what you think to adjust my thoughts accordingly. My parents tought me to think for myself at a young age. If those thoughs happen to match others, fine. If not, fine too. If you ever say something that I agree with, I'll be sure to let you know so you can sleep better at night. Unfortunately, this board lately has become so irrationally anti-Kruger that anyone who isn't calling for his head is treated like a pariah.
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