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Old 01-14-2020, 11:17 AM   #26
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I'd think we just got dominated by a bottom half of the league team and now we're playing a top 10 team in the country.
Duke and Kentucky got beat by sucking teams.

Ill check ESPN to see if their programs have been disbanded yet.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:23 AM   #27
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

Ok, I will concede the problems you all have stated. My issue is you only state the problems. You only talk about the bad games. You never praise a hard fought win on the road against a rival. Or a road win against a team that just beat Michigan and destroyed OSU at home. You not only donít give them credit for those you nitpick individual plays within those games to try and prove your point.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:30 AM   #28
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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Ok, I will concede the problems you all have stated. My issue is you only state the problems. You only talk about the bad games. You never praise a hard fought win on the road against a rival. Or a road win against a team that just beat Michigan and destroyed OSU at home. You not only don’t give them credit for those you nitpick individual plays within those games to try and prove your point.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I praised OU for their win at Texas, during and after the game.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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Duke and Kentucky got beat by sucking teams.

Ill check ESPN to see if their programs have been disbanded yet.
Iowa State also got beat at home by Florida A&M for their first ever win against a Power 5 school, so there's that.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:43 AM   #30
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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A 1 point win over UCF, which might be the worst team in the American... a 2 point win over North Texas... A 5 point win over William & Mary.. Etc.
A 9-point win over Minnesota (36 in Kenpom) on a not-very-neutral court, an 11-point win over Missouri (54 in Kenpom) on a not-very-neutral court, an 8-point win over Oregon State (58 in Kenpom) on a not-very-neutral court -- see how that works? The doom-and-gloom crowd actually holds victories that don't live up to their standards against the team while ignoring the wins over solid teams.

And the teams you guys cite as being such terrible victories are better than you ever give them credit for: North Texas is ranked 105 in Kenpom (just nine spots behind KSU), UCF is 118 (and that's after struggling of late -- they were 9-2 when we played them), W&M 140 (they're currently 13-5).

Ask Duke how tough it can be on a given night to beat a team in that range of the rankings (at 122, Stephen F Austin is ranked lower than UNT and UCF); ask Kelvin Sampson (at 114, Tulsa is ranked lower than UNT and just ahead of UCF).

You buys blithely cite these "bad" wins as if we were struggling with the likes of Maryland Eastern Shore, with teams at the bottom of the rankings. We're not. We've got the 27th toughest schedule in the country so we haven't even PLAYED many truly lousy teams.

As for Manek, he ranks second on the team and tied for 11th in the conference in rebounds. That's not lousy.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:45 AM   #31
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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Iowa State also got beat at home by Florida A&M for their first ever win against a Power 5 school, so there's that.
Not that it makes that loss look any better but people overlook the fact that Haliburton didnít play in that game. They lose 17+ pts a game etc etc. Again, Iím not condoning the loss but not having a guy like that makes them an entirely different team.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:48 AM   #32
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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I can't speak for everyone else, but I praised OU for their win at Texas, during and after the game.
At the end of the win over KSU, when most fans were ready to celebrate a hard-fought win, you said the team was awful. So congrats on praising the team during the texas game. That's once.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:48 AM   #33
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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A 9-point win over Minnesota (36 in Kenpom) on a not-very-neutral court, an 11-point win over Missouri (54 in Kenpom) on a not-very-neutral court, an 8-point win over Oregon State (58 in Kenpom) on a not-very-neutral court -- see how that works? The doom-and-gloom crowd actually holds victories that don't live up to their standards against the team while ignoring the wins over solid teams.

And the teams you guys cite as being such terrible victories are better than you ever give them credit for: North Texas is ranked 105 in Kenpom (just nine spots behind KSU), UCF is 118 (and that's after struggling of late -- they were 9-2 when we played them), W&M 140 (they're currently 13-5).

Ask Duke how tough it can be on a given night to beat a team in that range of the rankings (at 122, Stephen F Austin is ranked lower than UNT and UCF); ask Kelvin Sampson (at 114, Tulsa is ranked lower than UNT and just ahead of UCF).

You buys blithely cite these "bad" wins as if we were struggling with the likes of Maryland Eastern Shore, with teams at the bottom of the rankings. We're not. We've got the 27th toughest schedule in the country so we haven't even PLAYED many truly lousy teams.

As for Manek, he ranks second on the team and tied for 11th in the conference in rebounds. That's not lousy.
It's just funny to me that you keep citing teams ranked in the 100s as decent teams. Sure these teams can catch lightning in a bottle and beat a good/great team, but let's not pretend that these are good teams.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:49 AM   #34
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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At the end of the win over KSU, when most fans were ready to celebrate a hard-fought win, you said the team was awful. So congrats on praising the team during the texas game. That's once.
I call them like I see them, Texas is awful too.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:52 AM   #35
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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I call them like I see them, Texas is awful too.
this shtick is getting old
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:57 AM   #36
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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Okay, I'll concede the point, 2 guys then that have played up to expectations. Although, if I see him walking back on D or not going for rebounds again I might retract this...
3 guys. We literally had 0 real expectations on Reaves and he's been key in most of our games.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:58 AM   #37
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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Not that it makes that loss look any better but people overlook the fact that Haliburton didnít play in that game. They lose 17+ pts a game etc etc. Again, Iím not condoning the loss but not having a guy like that makes them an entirely different team.
Thatís a fair point
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:59 AM   #38
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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3 guys. We literally had 0 real expectations on Reaves and he's been key in most of our games.
Really? We had zero expectations for Reaves? I mean itís pretty subjective but I can probably go find some preseason posts hyping him, but I will also concede the point. 3 guys then.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:03 PM   #39
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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3 guys. We literally had 0 real expectations on Reaves and he's been key in most of our games.
Pretty sure there were some who saw Reaves in practice claiming he was/would be our best player.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:04 PM   #40
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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It's just funny to me that you keep citing teams ranked in the 100s as decent teams. Sure these teams can catch lightning in a bottle and beat a good/great team, but let's not pretend that these are good teams.
While we're not pretending, let's not pretend that we lost to these teams, as Duke and Houston both did to similar teams. We beat them. How long are you (and the other glass-half-full types) going to ***** and moan about wins? Unlike Duke and Houston (and plenty of other good teams) we haven't let some second tier team catch lightning in a bottle against us.

Your worldview is strange -- you seem to see no grays. It's all black and white. You've yet to define your dividing line, but whatever it is, every team above it is good and every team below it is awful. That's a questionable outlook (to put it mildly).

If you think there's no difference between the 105 team in the country and a team in the 200s or 300s, if you think there's no difference between playing the 27th toughest schedule in the country and the 250th or the 350th toughest, I don't know what to tell you.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:19 PM   #41
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

All depends on if Kansas brings their "A" game they will win regardless how well OU plays.
OU has to play really good and Kansas not..even then it may be a struggle. Kansas on paper and on the floor is just the better team. I hope OU plays great and Kansas not so much.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:19 PM   #42
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While we're not pretending, let's not pretend that we lost to these teams, as Duke and Houston both did to similar teams. We beat them. How long are you (and the other glass-half-full types) going to ***** and moan about wins? Unlike Duke and Houston (and plenty of other good teams) we haven't let some second tier team catch lightning in a bottle against us.

Your worldview is strange -- you seem to see no grays. It's all black and white. You've yet to define your dividing line, but whatever it is, every team above it is good and every team below it is awful. That's a questionable outlook (to put it mildly).

If you think there's no difference between the 105 team in the country and a team in the 200s or 300s, if you think there's no difference between playing the 27th toughest schedule in the country and the 250th or the 350th toughest, I don't know what to tell you.
Actually, if my worldview was black and white with no grey areas Iíd be saying ďwe won those games, whatís the problem?Ē Iím not saying that, Iím saying that even though we managed to win those games, we didnít play well, our flaws were exposed and my alarm bells were ringing, and Iím not the only one. Go read the game thread for the north Texas game if you donít believe me. I agree with ABD upthread, that we are a few ball bounces from a disastrous season already. Itís true that weíve played well in a few games, and I said so at the time. Notably the Oregon state and Texas games. But Iím not happy with the product on the floor regardless of what our record is at the moment. Thatís all Iím saying. Iím sorry if some think Iím being overly critical of the team. The fact is, I love OU basketball and I have to be honest about what I see as the state of the program. Maybe we turn it around tonight, I hope we do! But Iím not counting on it based on what Iíve seen so far. Thatís my honest assessment. Again, sorry if I appear overly critical.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:19 PM   #43
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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While we're not pretending, let's not pretend that we lost to these teams, as Duke and Houston both did to similar teams. We beat them. How long are you (and the other glass-half-full types) going to ***** and moan about wins? Unlike Duke and Houston (and plenty of other good teams) we haven't let some second tier team catch lightning in a bottle against us.

Your worldview is strange -- you seem to see no grays. It's all black and white. You've yet to define your dividing line, but whatever it is, every team above it is good and every team below it is awful. That's a questionable outlook (to put it mildly).

If you think there's no difference between the 105 team in the country and a team in the 200s or 300s, if you think there's no difference between playing the 27th toughest schedule in the country and the 250th or the 350th toughest, I don't know what to tell you.
If you want to defend the team that is one thing but using Duke to illustrate your point is what it is. Chances are individuals are fallible thus teams as well must also follow suit, too. Duke tripped over itself in one game which bears no resemblance to the team in which you defend. I think for those you want to chastise all have something in common, which is they want more consistency. Perhaps their expectations are too lofty, but you should also agree that deep down they want whats best for the team. They might not articulate their points as well as you do, but that's how I see it.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:24 PM   #44
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The Iowa state game was a big step back and I think thatís why thereís so much pessimism about tonightís game. Also, KU coming off a loss will probably be breathing fire and not be complacent. I think ku wins but Iím hoping our shots are falling and we play much better. This team has the ability to get hot and beat ku.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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While we're not pretending, let's not pretend that we lost to these teams, as Duke and Houston both did to similar teams. We beat them. How long are you (and the other glass-half-full types) going to ***** and moan about wins? Unlike Duke and Houston (and plenty of other good teams) we haven't let some second tier team catch lightning in a bottle against us.

Your worldview is strange -- you seem to see no grays. It's all black and white. You've yet to define your dividing line, but whatever it is, every team above it is good and every team below it is awful. That's a questionable outlook (to put it mildly).

If you think there's no difference between the 105 team in the country and a team in the 200s or 300s, if you think there's no difference between playing the 27th toughest schedule in the country and the 250th or the 350th toughest, I don't know what to tell you.
Exactly. Also funny how every team we play is somehow "the worst team in the country." I think we have heard that about KSU, UT, UCF, and ISU, not to mention some of the other noncon opponents. In this very thread, our win over KU last year was largely dismissed because KU "had serious issues" at the time.

People truly don't understand the difference between great, good, average, bad, and awful opponents. And they don't seem to understand that a team's quality is based on an entire season, not the one game they happen to watch an opponent. I laughed at all the people who posted after the game that MES didn't look that bad -- they made a few threes and kept things close for one half of one game, and people took that to mean that the analytics were wrong. Usually, our negative posters go the other direction -- they are convinced that any team the Sooners manage to beat must be horrible, terrible, awful, a disgrace to the sport, etc.

Finally, one more thing that amuses me. Some of our most vocal critics argue that our team is bad at virtually everything -- defense, rebounding, effort, offensive structure, mental toughness, etc. So, if a team is bad at truly everything, how do you account for the 11 wins? Oh, that's right -- it must be all those awful teams we play. We are only winning by default, because, lucky for us, some of our opponents are even more incompetent than we are!!
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:53 PM   #46
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

What are some of the strengths of the team? Not trolling, I'm genuinely curious about what people think on this topic.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:06 PM   #47
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Is Dotson healthy or even playing? If he's out I think we win!
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:19 PM   #48
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Is Dotson healthy or even playing? If he's out I think we win!
we are winning either way.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:30 PM   #49
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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This team has nothing for Kansas. I will eat a huge plate of crow if I'm wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't see it. We have too many flaws, and we don't play hard when we get behind. Happy to be proven wrong tonight...
The ole I canít be wrong hedge. What a tired game. You and Traber would get along great.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:33 PM   #50
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Default Re: OU vs kansas 8pm CST return of the Daug

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What are some of the strengths of the team? Not trolling, I'm genuinely curious about what people think on this topic.
Athleticism, ball handling, defensive rebounding, 2pt defense, defending without fouling.
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