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Old 01-13-2020, 10:43 AM   #26
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It's a GAME. The purpose of which is to entertain and have fun. It's hard to be entertained when you're too busy complaining and griping. You need to relax.
Your definition/standard of entertainment must be far different than mine.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:44 AM   #27
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It's a GAME. The purpose of which is to entertain and have fun. It's hard to be entertained when you're too busy complaining and griping. You need to relax.
It's also a competition. And if we're going to compete, I'd prefer we do it well. You see, I get MORE joy out of that.

Otherwise, we might as well not even keep score.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:02 PM   #28
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It's a GAME. The purpose of which is to entertain and have fun. It's hard to be entertained when you're too busy complaining and griping. You need to relax.
Yeah, Iím not sure what your point is here. Assuming this season progresses as it has thus far, this will be our fourth straight season where the team is AT BEST a borderline tourney team, well below .500 in conference, with very little upside. One or two years like that when you are coming off a F4 run is fine, but where we are now is not where I want to be as a program four years removed from a high point. I think the program can do better than this. Now, maybe the season goes off the charts from here and the end really strong and break the cycle of meh. If they do, that will change things. But if we stay on this general trajectory, I am not going to be satisfied with just squeezing into the tourney again.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:34 PM   #29
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Yeah, Iím not sure what your point is here. Assuming this season progresses as it has thus far, this will be our fourth straight season where the team is AT BEST a borderline tourney team, well below .500 in conference, with very little upside. One or two years like that when you are coming off a F4 run is fine, but where we are now is not where I want to be as a program four years removed from a high point. I think the program can do better than this. Now, maybe the season goes off the charts from here and the end really strong and break the cycle of meh. If they do, that will change things. But if we stay on this general trajectory, I am not going to be satisfied with just squeezing into the tourney again.
I think this is a fair, level headed, non hyperbolic answer that looks longer term than just one game. It also sees a chance things improve. I also tend to agree with most of the post. I just get annoyed with over kill of things are going off the rails bc of one game.

Good post
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:14 PM   #30
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I think this is a fair, level headed, non hyperbolic answer that looks longer term than just one game. It also sees a chance things improve. I also tend to agree with most of the post. I just get annoyed with over kill of things are going off the rails bc of one game.

Good post
Well, I think people react in the moment based on the bigger picture (if that makes any sense). I don't think you would have seen as negative reaction to the ISU loss if say, OU was a 2 loss team coming in and had looked really strong in recent weeks. People may be a little upset in the game thread, but the overall reaction would be more "oh well, we always lose in Ames...."

In a vacuum, losing in Ames and splitting the road trip isn't a big deal.

To me, the "big deal" is this is now a FOUR year pattern. Any time OU has even a little success in conf play they immediately follow it up with a clunker. As a matter of fact, have they won back to back B12 road games at all in the past four years? I bet they have at some point, but I'm not positive on that.

This is the 2020 team-- problem for me is that they don't look any better than the 2019 team, which really wasn't any better than the 2018 team. There is little improvement on the court or in the recruiting battle. And in terms of fan interest and general "juice" around the program, there is probably a regression.

Look, if OU goes 11-7 in conf and wins a couple games in KC then this narrative completely changes for me-- that would be a CLEAR step in an advanced direction. But if we wind up 9-9 or worse, even if we mix in some good wins, even if we make the Tourney, it's going to be really hard to be excited about this team or program.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:45 PM   #31
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As a matter of fact, have they won back to back B12 road games at all in the past four years? I bet they have at some point, but I'm not positive on that.
The last time we won back to back Big 12 road games was January-February 2015 (Buddy's junior year) when we won at Ok State and at TCU consecutively.

Going into last week, I just wanted to split the 2 games at Austin and Ames. Before the ISU game, I even told my partner that I'd be alright if we lost to ISU (who would be playing with their hair on fire to avoid an 0-3 start) because we already stole a game on the road earlier in the week.

So my issue is not that we lost, it's HOW we lost. It is hard to watch/cheer for a team that looks like we did at ISU -- absolutely no hustle on either side of the floor, standing around, etc etc.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:00 PM   #32
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I see what both of you are saying. Again I like this discourse much more. So thanks.

Now, I agree there’s a pattern I don’t like that we do seem stagnant. I also like the term “juice” I def can understand that it’s doesn’t really exist in terms of excitement about the program.

However, we made it to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tourney last year with a team that wasn’t that talented to make it that far. Followed it up with Harmon signing.

Those gave me some “juice.”

But again, I see your point and it’s def valid.

Let’s beat KU for the THIRD straight year at home and keep the juice flowing! Ha
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:21 PM   #33
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Well, we have played 16 more games since my original post and I feel... The. Exact. Same. Way.

Nothing has changed for me. I see zero progresses or regression. Tonight against Baylor encapsulates this entire team/season for me: Not terrible, a few decent moments, kind of middling to low energy, completely lost/no confidence on offense, good team defense, nothing particularly interesting or exciting to report.

In other words: Meh. I am sure the coaches and players are working hard. I’ve watched pretty much every game and I’ve been to 4 of them; I’m rooting for them. But my honest take is that this is the least interesting/enjoyable OU team I can recall perhaps with the exceptions of the handful of really bad teams we’ve had over the years. They had a chance over the past few days to turn some heads; make a mark on this season. They didn’t come close in either attempt. They are what they are it appears.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:03 AM   #34
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Well, we have played 16 more games since my original post and I feel... The. Exact. Same. Way.

Nothing has changed for me. I see zero progresses or regression. Tonight against Baylor encapsulates this entire team/season for me: Not terrible, a few decent moments, kind of middling to low energy, completely lost/no confidence on offense, good team defense, nothing particularly interesting or exciting to report.

In other words: Meh. I am sure the coaches and players are working hard. Iíve watched pretty much every game and Iíve been to 4 of them; Iím rooting for them. But my honest take is that this is the least interesting/enjoyable OU team I can recall perhaps with the exceptions of the handful of really bad teams weíve had over the years. They had a chance over the past few days to turn some heads; make a mark on this season. They didnít come close in either attempt. They are what they are it appears.
It seems this team hasn't had that fire to win since Henson left. Wasn't he in charge of the majority of practices and play calling when he was at OU? Not saying he's the answer as the HC going forward, but there has been a definite drop off since he left.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:31 AM   #35
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It seems this team hasn't had that fire to win since Henson left. Wasn't he in charge of the majority of practices and play calling when he was at OU? Not saying he's the answer as the HC going forward, but there has been a definite drop off since he left.
i think henson is a very good coach .....

but you are overstating his role while he was at OU
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:43 AM   #36
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i think henson is a very good coach .....

but you are overstating his role while he was at OU
This. He certainly wasn't in charge of the offense or "play calling."
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:23 PM   #37
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i think henson is a very good coach .....

but you are overstating his role while he was at OU
Overstating how? It was obvious to me and Iím sure to others that Henson was like a head coach in many ways. He was the vocal leader on the bench we donít have now, someone who didnít hesitate to get in a playerís face when he screwed up.

Crutchfield did that to a lesser extent, but now heís gone. I have seen Hartman talk to players during a timeout, but he is no Steve Henson. I was hoping Molinari would be that kind of coach, and maybe he is when the cameras arenít rolling.

I appreciate what Lon has done for the program. There is no question he was (emphasis on the past tense) the right coach for the job eight years ago. But, his laidback, clap-your-hands style regardless of the circumstances would not excite or inspire me as a player. He attempts to create excitement by repeating every instruction twice. Itís outdated and boring.

As each post FF season has come to an end with OU struggling to make it in the dance, I canít help but think it may be time for Lon to move on. I realize Iím not going to be too popular right now, but thatís how I feel. Maybe itís time for me to move on as well? If so, I can do that too.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:29 PM   #38
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Overstating how? It was obvious to me and Iím sure to others that Henson was like a head coach in many ways. He was the vocal leader on the bench we donít have now, someone who didnít hesitate to get in a playerís face when he screwed up.

Crutchfield did that to a lesser extent, but now heís gone. I have seen Hartman talk to players during a timeout, but he is no Steve Henson. I was hoping Molinari would be that kind of coach, and maybe he is when the cameras arenít rolling.

I appreciate what Lon has done for the program. There is no question he was (emphasis on the past tense) the right coach for the job eight years ago. But, his laidback, clap-your-hands style regardless of the circumstances would not excite or inspire me as a player. He attempts to create excitement by repeating every instruction twice. Itís outdated and boring.

As each post FF season has come to an end with OU struggling to make it in the dance, I canít help but think it may be time for Lon to move on. I realize Iím not going to be too popular right now, but thatís how I feel. Maybe itís time for me to move on as well? If so, I can do that too.
Even the most loyal fans are frustrated. It isnít acceptable to have a team look disinterested in beating the best team in the country at home. It is unacceptable to have the coach clapping his hands and being positive when it is time to rip into the team. The team never played with a sense of urgency.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:37 PM   #39
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Overstating how? It was obvious to me and Iím sure to others that Henson was like a head coach in many ways. He was the vocal leader on the bench we donít have now, someone who didnít hesitate to get in a playerís face when he screwed up.

Crutchfield did that to a lesser extent, but now heís gone. I have seen Hartman talk to players during a timeout, but he is no Steve Henson. I was hoping Molinari would be that kind of coach, and maybe he is when the cameras arenít rolling.

I appreciate what Lon has done for the program. There is no question he was (emphasis on the past tense) the right coach for the job eight years ago. But, his laidback, clap-your-hands style regardless of the circumstances would not excite or inspire me as a player. He attempts to create excitement by repeating every instruction twice. Itís outdated and boring.

As each post FF season has come to an end with OU struggling to make it in the dance, I canít help but think it may be time for Lon to move on. I realize Iím not going to be too popular right now, but thatís how I feel. Maybe itís time for me to move on as well? If so, I can do that too.
Oh come on Ada, you know better than that. You are 100% correct, and there are many that agree with you.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:45 PM   #40
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Lots to unpack from the previous posts. I’ll try and be succinct.

1. Hand clapping isn’t our problem but it sure ruffles feathers around here.
2. The problem is we have been a slightly above average team for 4 straight years.
3. I get wanting change. I’ve def thought about it but change just to change does no one any good.
4. I don’t think they are disinterested. I honestly think they wanna win just as bad as we do. If you disagree with that then we are at a fundamental divide.

We are an above average team that is an NCAA tourney qualifier perennially.

With that being said: Def not where we aspire to be so I understand the angst.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:58 PM   #41
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Well, we have played 16 more games since my original post and I feel... The. Exact. Same. Way.

Nothing has changed for me. I see zero progresses or regression. They had a chance over the past few days to turn some heads; make a mark on this season. They didnít come close in either attempt. They are what they are it appears.
This is where I am at. Just resigned to the fact that we are a bubble team for the foreseeable future unless something unconventional were to happen.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:03 PM   #42
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I was not upset we lost last night. I completely expected it. I was disappointed with how some of the players played.
I think there is a good chance we lose Saturday.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:20 PM   #43
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Overstating how? It was obvious to me and Iím sure to others that Henson was like a head coach in many ways. He was the vocal leader on the bench we donít have now, someone who didnít hesitate to get in a playerís face when he screwed up.

Crutchfield did that to a lesser extent, but now heís gone. I have seen Hartman talk to players during a timeout, but he is no Steve Henson. I was hoping Molinari would be that kind of coach, and maybe he is when the cameras arenít rolling.

I appreciate what Lon has done for the program. There is no question he was (emphasis on the past tense) the right coach for the job eight years ago. But, his laidback, clap-your-hands style regardless of the circumstances would not excite or inspire me as a player. He attempts to create excitement by repeating every instruction twice. Itís outdated and boring.

As each post FF season has come to an end with OU struggling to make it in the dance, I canít help but think it may be time for Lon to move on. I realize Iím not going to be too popular right now, but thatís how I feel. Maybe itís time for me to move on as well? If so, I can do that too.
i don't think your opinion is invalid .. and i think OU the past few years missed the "bad cop" that henson played sometimes ..

but he didn't run the O or run every practice as the post i responded to asserted
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:58 PM   #44
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i don't think your opinion is invalid .. and i think OU the past few years missed the "bad cop" that henson played sometimes ..

but he didn't run the O or run every practice as the post i responded to asserted
Hensonís involvement in practices might have been overstated due to the publicity he received from his early morning and weekend workout and shooting sessions with Buddy Hield. We were also getting regular practice reports back then. I have no doubt that our current assistants are involved with the players in practice.

Maybe Iíve missed it, because Iím not physically able to go to games anymore. But I have not seen a single player get more than a mild rebuke for failing to get back in transition, close out on an open shot, block out on the boards and numerous other basic fundamentals I could name. There are no ďbad copsĒ on this staff that I can see. They have all adopted Lonís easy going style. Nothing wrong with that to a point. But, IMO, thatís not what some of these players need right now.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:19 PM   #45
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I was not upset we lost last night. I completely expected it. I was disappointed with how some of the players played.
I think there is a good chance we lose Saturday.
I thought you didn't watch OU basketball any more. You made it a point to tell us a few weeks ago how much it had helped your stress and enjoyment levels.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:04 PM   #46
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I thought you didn't watch OU basketball any more. You made it a point to tell us a few weeks ago how much it had helped your stress and enjoyment levels.
You should go back and read what I actually wrote.
What do you think now?
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:33 PM   #47
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G - Austin Reaves
G - Alondes Williams
F - Doolittle
F - Manek
C - Kuath

Just let Reaves and Williams make plays for everyone else... I get that Bieniemy doesn't make mistakes, but I want to see the most athletic lineup OU has in the game.

Reaves especially can create for others. I would just tell him to be play maker and stop worrying about his shot. Go get 8 assists, get fouled, etc.

OU can iso 3 different players with this lineup... Reaves, Williams, and Doolittle. Kuath gets lobs, Manek gets open looks, etc.

Make it happen.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:46 PM   #48
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G - Austin Reaves
G - Alondes Williams
F - Doolittle
F - Manek
C - Kuath

Just let Reaves and Williams make plays for everyone else... I get that Bieniemy doesn't make mistakes, but I want to see the most athletic lineup OU has in the game.

Reaves especially can create for others. I would just tell him to be play maker and stop worrying about his shot. Go get 8 assists, get fouled, etc.

OU can iso 3 different players with this lineup... Reaves, Williams, and Doolittle. Kuath gets lobs, Manek gets open looks, etc.

Make it happen.
You're wasting bandwidth. Nothing will change as long as Lon is the coach.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:58 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by thebigabd View Post
G - Austin Reaves
G - Alondes Williams
F - Doolittle
F - Manek
C - Kuath

Just let Reaves and Williams make plays for everyone else... I get that Bieniemy doesn't make mistakes, but I want to see the most athletic lineup OU has in the game.

Reaves especially can create for others. I would just tell him to be play maker and stop worrying about his shot. Go get 8 assists, get fouled, etc.

OU can iso 3 different players with this lineup... Reaves, Williams, and Doolittle. Kuath gets lobs, Manek gets open looks, etc.

Make it happen.
That lineup would have to score 85 to win on most nights.
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:08 PM   #50
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Maybe Iíve missed it, because Iím not physically able to go to games anymore. But I have not seen a single player get more than a mild rebuke for failing to get back in transition, close out on an open shot, block out on the boards and numerous other basic fundamentals I could name. There are no ďbad copsĒ on this staff that I can see. They have all adopted Lonís easy going style. Nothing wrong with that to a point. But, IMO, thatís not what some of these players need right now.
molinari has no problem getting on to players. but that side of the ball comes from within, no matter who the coach.
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