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Old 01-13-2020, 01:42 PM   #1
Sooner04
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Exclamation The Holes We Dig

We have played 15 games so far this season. In those 15 games, we've found ourselves down by six or more in the first half 11 different times.

UTSA (-7): 11-4
MINN (-6): 32-26
W&M (-11): 23-12
STAN (-17): 17-0 <---- (Buzz, your girlfriend, WOOF.)
UNT (-8): 26-18
WSU (-8): 14-6
CRE (-10): 22-12
UCF (-12): 32-20
KSU (-6): 30-24
UT (-9): 29-20
ISU (-17): 42-25

You don't have to be Pete Newell to know this isn't sustainable. We're about to get a steady diet of tough opponents, and the last thing you want to do inside a crazy arena is the make the mountain a little higher by spotting the opponent six points (or more).

I think the reasons for this are two-fold:

1. I don't think there's a leader on this team. I don't think there's a guy who everyone is going to follow from the opening tip. I blame that on coaching as much as anything.

2. I believe we are an easy scout. I'm not sure what we're trying to do on offense. I do know that you'll see several early possessions where the defense is not engaged. We don't force our opponent into anything. There isn't much movement. The ball doesn't reverse. LOTS of standing. That's a good way to find yourself down five at the first TV timeout.

Winning in Austin was off-set by sleepwalking through Ames. Why? What's the deal? Why are we coming out so flat time and time again?
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:51 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Holes We Dig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner04 View Post
We have played 15 games so far this season. In those 15 games, we've found ourselves down by six or more in the first half 11 different times.

UTSA (-7): 11-4
MINN (-6): 32-26
W&M (-11): 23-12
STAN (-17): 17-0 <---- (Buzz, your girlfriend, WOOF.)
UNT (-8): 26-18
WSU (-8): 14-6
CRE (-10): 22-12
UCF (-12): 32-20
KSU (-6): 30-24
UT (-9): 29-20
ISU (-17): 42-25

You don't have to be Pete Newell to know this isn't sustainable. We're about to get a steady diet of tough opponents, and the last thing you want to do inside a crazy arena is the make the mountain a little higher by spotting the opponent six points (or more).

I think the reasons for this are two-fold:

1. I don't think there's a leader on this team. I don't think there's a guy who everyone is going to follow from the opening tip. I blame that on coaching as much as anything.

2. I believe we are an easy scout. I'm not sure what we're trying to do on offense. I do know that you'll see several early possessions where the defense is not engaged. We don't force our opponent into anything. There isn't much movement. The ball doesn't reverse. LOTS of standing. That's a good way to find yourself down five at the first TV timeout.

Winning in Austin was off-set by sleepwalking through Ames. Why? What's the deal? Why are we coming out so flat time and time again?
I agree with all your points. The other problem we have is that the other team really only needs to guard 3 guys on the perimeter. Like you said, we are very easy to scout and that's a reason why. Also, if one of our big 3 is having an off night it's almost impossible for the other 2 to carry us. It's an individual problem but also a systemic one. The coaching doesn't seem to be there, and I don't know why.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Holes We Dig

Another good post '04. Your points are valid, but unfortunately, I don't have an answer nor any direction to go. I can't figure this team out other than it seems they take 5-7 game minutes to get "engaged" in the flow of the game.

We certainly don't move without the ball as much as we all would like....and I believe this creates the "stagnation" at times. I also think we "give up" on far too many offensive possessions when you see 4 of our 5 guys in full retreat to the defensive end before our shot even gets to the rim.....drives me crazy.

And since this is the upteenth year in a row where we can't seem to keep penetrating guards in front of us on defense, let's see more zone at the outset of games instead of going to it as a last resort. Otherwise, I got nothing.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Holes We Dig

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Another good post '04. Your points are valid, but unfortunately, I don't have an answer nor any direction to go. I can't figure this team out other than it seems they take 5-7 game minutes to get "engaged" in the flow of the game.

We certainly don't move without the ball as much as we all would like....and I believe this creates the "stagnation" at times. I also think we "give up" on far too many offensive possessions when you see 4 of our 5 guys in full retreat to the defensive end before our shot even gets to the rim.....drives me crazy.

And since this is the upteenth year in a row where we can't seem to keep penetrating guards in front of us on defense, let's see more zone at the outset of games instead of going to it as a last resort. Otherwise, I got nothing.
Poor coaching. Same story every year
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:20 PM   #5
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Poor coaching. Same story every year
It's not poor coaching... it is poor recruiting. If Lon could recruit better players it would be fine, but he doesn't.

The #1 problem with Lon Kruger is recruiting.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:22 PM   #6
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It's not poor coaching... it is poor recruiting. If Lon could recruit better players it would be fine, but he doesn't.

The #1 problem with Lon Kruger is recruiting.
Disagree. We could the most talent in the world and still lose by never crashing offensive glass, EVER. Shooting dumb shots and not moving the ball on offense. Imo
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Holes We Dig

this thread... Geez.

agree holes we dig ourselves is dumb!
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:50 PM   #8
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It's not poor coaching... it is poor recruiting. If Lon could recruit better players it would be fine, but he doesn't.

The #1 problem with Lon Kruger is recruiting.
It's somewhere in between. Lon certainly isn't getting the most out of the talent we have, which is a roster NOT without talent, but it's not very deep because Lon keeps recruiting duds that sit at the end of the bench and don't contribute much, except maybe extremely late in their career.

There is some talent, but it could be better.
Lon isn't getting the most out of the talent he does have.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:54 PM   #9
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It's not poor coaching... it is poor recruiting. If Lon could recruit better players it would be fine, but he doesn't.

The #1 problem with Lon Kruger is recruiting.
Strongly disagree. The talent difference between our team and everyone else in the conference isn't that great; excluding KU maybe a couple others. We're missing a piece or two for a well positioned team but it all really boils down to coaching.

You saw 2 stark differences last week between talent levels and coaching ability. Texas has better talent but Kruger outcoached Smart. Wasn't even close.
With Iowa state, the talent is very similar but Lon had no gameplan and no answers. The team looked lost when ISU went to zone defense and Lon just hung them out to dry for several minutes before he finally called a timeout.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:49 PM   #10
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Strongly disagree. The talent difference between our team and everyone else in the conference isn't that great; excluding KU maybe a couple others. We're missing a piece or two for a well positioned team but it all really boils down to coaching.

You saw 2 stark differences last week between talent levels and coaching ability. Texas has better talent but Kruger outcoached Smart. Wasn't even close.
With Iowa state, the talent is very similar but Lon had no gameplan and no answers. The team looked lost when ISU went to zone defense and Lon just hung them out to dry for several minutes before he finally called a timeout.
2-3 players short is a pretty big deal in college basketball, where typically only the top 8 are important.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:04 PM   #11
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2-3 players short is a pretty big deal in college basketball, where typically only the top 8 are important.
Sure but I said "1-2"...you sad 2-3.
We have 2 solid point guards, 4 solid off guards, 2 good forwards, 1 forward that needs experience, and 1 center that needs coaching. If we had a solid/experienced 5 I'd say we'd have a complete roster. (some of those players fill 2 squares). I think we have the talent to compete better on the road against teams like Iowa St. We just need a new head coach with new ideas. These players just don't seem to be flourishing under Lon like I think they could.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Holes We Dig

I'll chime in....

I agree it's both. LK runs a pro offense...but we don't have the horses to run that.

There was a thread on Reaves...or maybe some comments in another thread...comparing his wsu / ou time. It was said perfectly that LK lets him run wild while Marshall controlled everything.

As far as defending us...3 guys...and when LK subs 3 or 4 guys out it goes to 1.

No moving without the ball...just watch the other 4 guys next time. Once the guy with the ball decides it's 1/5 time...the others just stand out on the perimeter and watch.

thinking we'll be lucky to go .500 in league. ku/bu/wv prob all sweeps. tt might be a split...ksu prob a loss up there, ut/isu/tcu split....unless pokes pull their head out possible sweep of them.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:00 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Holes We Dig

Updated list:

UTSA (-7): 11-4
MINN (-6): 32-26
W&M (-11): 23-12
STAN (-17): 17-0 <---- (Buzz, your girlfriend, WOOF.)
UNT (-8): 26-18
WSU (-8): 14-6
CRE (-10): 22-12
UCF (-12): 32-20
KSU (-6): 30-24
UT (-9): 29-20
ISU (-17): 42-25
KU (-6): 9-3
BU (-11): 35-24
KSU (-13): 25-12


20 games. A first-half deficit of six or more points in 14 of them.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:18 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Holes We Dig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner04 View Post
We have played 15 games so far this season. In those 15 games, we've found ourselves down by six or more in the first half 11 different times.

UTSA (-7): 11-4
MINN (-6): 32-26
W&M (-11): 23-12
STAN (-17): 17-0 <---- (Buzz, your girlfriend, WOOF.)
UNT (-8): 26-18
WSU (-8): 14-6
CRE (-10): 22-12
UCF (-12): 32-20
KSU (-6): 30-24
UT (-9): 29-20
ISU (-17): 42-25

You don't have to be Pete Newell to know this isn't sustainable. We're about to get a steady diet of tough opponents, and the last thing you want to do inside a crazy arena is the make the mountain a little higher by spotting the opponent six points (or more).

I think the reasons for this are two-fold:

1. I don't think there's a leader on this team. I don't think there's a guy who everyone is going to follow from the opening tip. I blame that on coaching as much as anything.

2. I believe we are an easy scout. I'm not sure what we're trying to do on offense. I do know that you'll see several early possessions where the defense is not engaged. We don't force our opponent into anything. There isn't much movement. The ball doesn't reverse. LOTS of standing. That's a good way to find yourself down five at the first TV timeout.

Winning in Austin was off-set by sleepwalking through Ames. Why? What's the deal? Why are we coming out so flat time and time again?
i think the lack of a great guard is the biggest reason for this ..

reaves is a solid guard but not great and harmon is still very young and JB well we know he did not make a "jump"

manek and doo to a lesser extent need others to help them get going ..
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:39 AM   #15
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i think the lack of a great guard is the biggest reason for this ..

reaves is a solid guard but not great and harmon is still very young and JB well we know he did not make a "jump"

manek and doo to a lesser extent need others to help them get going ..
I agree that a great guard would make a huge difference. Harmon and JB were not even on the good level last night, but neither was Austin Reaves. His 6 turnovers, some at crucial times of the game, really hurt. I hope we never see him dribble behind his back or between his legs again.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:02 AM   #16
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i think the lack of a great guard is the biggest reason for this ..

reaves is a solid guard but not great and harmon is still very young and JB well we know he did not make a "jump"

manek and doo to a lesser extent need others to help them get going ..
Huh????
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:04 AM   #17
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Huh????
see the stats thread and the advanced numbers ... they are undenyable ..

if you are using facts and not emotion
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:09 AM   #18
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Just don't use your eyes.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:11 AM   #19
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Just don't use your eyes.
use your eyes but make sure they work .. and that they understand basketball
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:23 AM   #20
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use your eyes but make sure they work .. and that they understand basketball
My eyes work just fine. Your stats are stale. Reaves has been anything but solid since conference season started. He's been downright bad. He attempts to play beyond his abilities.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:40 AM   #21
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My eyes work just fine. Your stats are stale. Reaves has been anything but solid since conference season started. He's been downright bad. He attempts to play beyond his abilities.
How do you know? I thought you were enjoying NOT watching Sooner basketball?
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:17 PM   #22
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Seems to me when Doo starts off with misses he’s pretty much gonna be that player the rest of the game. We are def running plays for him early or he’s been given the OK to shoot early. So when they don’t fall we have these early deficits. I honestly think it’s that simple
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:50 PM   #23
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see the stats thread and the advanced numbers ... they are undenyable ..

if you are using facts and not emotion
You mean stats like this??? Yep, my eyes aren't deceiving me!!

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...-reaves-1.html
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:54 PM   #24
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You mean stats like this??? Yep, my eyes aren't deceiving me!!

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...-reaves-1.html
yep maybe you should scroll down on that page and keep looking
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:03 PM   #25
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yep maybe you should scroll down on that page and keep looking
Reaves isn't in the top 20 in the league in ANY meaningful statistic. Tell me what stat you think makes him a "solid" player.
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