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Old 03-14-2019, 09:08 AM   #26
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Over an 8-year career at Oklahoma, Lon is 72-72 in conference games, and 2-8 in conference tournament games. That is mediocre. That is not the record of a great coach by Oklahoma standards (or any standards for that matter).
in the last 7 years he has also coached OU in the maybe the hardest/best conf schedule that OU has ever been in no more playing the old brutal north 1 time each a year and feasting on baylor tech and tamu
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:10 AM   #27
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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in the last 7 years he has also coached OU in the maybe the hardest/best conf schedule that OU has ever been in no more playing the old brutal north 1 time each a year and feasting on baylor tech and tamu
Has nothing to do with that.... OU and OSU aren't recruiting well enough anymore since Sutton/Sampson left. Programs have lost their identity and corrections are needed.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:11 AM   #28
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Has nothing to do with that.... OU and OSU aren't recruiting well enough anymore since Sutton/Sampson left. Programs have lost their identity and corrections are needed.
Agreed. His statement is just an excuse. The Big 12 has been PLENTY tough over the years. It's no more difficult today than it was 10 years ago.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Agreed. His statement is just an excuse. The Big 12 has been PLENTY tough over the years. It's no more difficult today than it was 10 years ago.
OU's big 12 schedule is much harder now than 12 years ago

and the big 12 is a better basketball conf now compare to 12 years ago ..


these are facts ..
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

Seems hard to believe anyone could say the current quality of the league has nothing to do with our record, or that the league is no better than it was a decade ago. Six of 12 teams made the tourney 10 years ago. KU and UT were the only teams to stay in the Top 25 all season, A&M was in for most the season but faded late, and KSU was at the bottom of the poll for a few weeks.

It is absolutely fair to say that our conference record hasn't been as good as it should be the past two years. I would never argue otherwise. But to act like the league has always been as good as it has been the past few years is a huge overstatement.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:29 AM   #31
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

the BIG 12 is the "best" league in the country for 6 of the past 7 years and was #2 the other year ...

the New Big 12 is an elite basketball conf
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:31 AM   #32
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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OU's big 12 schedule is much harder now than 12 years ago

and the big 12 is a better basketball conf now compare to 12 years ago ..


these are facts ..
So losing = good.. bc hard
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:32 AM   #33
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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So losing = good.. bc hard
don't think anyone said that ...

and OU is going to be dancing yet again ..
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:33 AM   #34
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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don't think anyone said that ...

and OU is going to be dancing yet again ..
Is simply making the tourney by the skin of our teeth with horribly coached teams and scant talent the standard? If so, give Kruger an extension
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:36 AM   #35
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

The Big-12 is unlikely to get easier in the next few years. Will Oklahoma be able to catch-up enough to sustain Lon's long-term .500 career conference record. Or, will the program's fortunes decline to the point where 7 or 8 conference wins are good enough.

I am reminded of the TV commercial ... How is your basketball program? Its OK.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:39 AM   #36
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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don't think anyone said that ...

and OU is going to be dancing yet again ..
With a seed that reflects not being very good.

How many double digit seeds did Billy and Kelvin have? Kelvin had a few early in his tenure, then 6 years of seeds no lower than 4. Lon is 8 years into his tenure at OU, and is about to have his second straight 10 seed, and 3rd overall.

That's not exactly "building our program."
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:41 AM   #37
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Is simply making the tourney by the skin of our teeth with horribly coached teams and scant talent the standard? If so, give Kruger an extension
Exactly. Two straight years with a 10 seed, and arguably 1-2 losses from not making it.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:45 AM   #38
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Is simply making the tourney by the skin of our teeth with horribly coached teams and scant talent the standard? If so, give Kruger an extension
Well, each person is free to decide for themselves what their personal standard is. But objectively, well over 90% of ADs and programs would be beyond thrilled to have their team make the tournament six of seven years. I'd guess maybe 10 to 15 programs can make that claim. And when one of those results in a FF and another a Sweet 16, that's a pretty good standard.

Also, and this is a legit question -- if we have terrible coaching AND bad talent, how do we make the tournament so often?
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:47 AM   #39
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Well, each person is free to decide for themselves what their personal standard is. But objectively, well over 90% of ADs and programs would be beyond thrilled to have their team make the tournament six of seven years. I'd guess maybe 10 to 15 programs can make that claim. And when one of those results in a FF and another a Sweet 16, that's a pretty good standard.

Also, and this is a legit question -- if we have terrible coaching AND bad talent, how do we make the tournament so often?
How many of those AD's are at top 20 all time basketball programs?

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...ams-based-poll
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:49 AM   #40
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

I'm not content winning 7-8 Big 12 games a year and being a 10 seed. Our program is better than that. I haven't done extensive research on what the other Big 12 teams will look like next year, but I see a very similar season next year. We're going to be relying on a lot of new/young faces next year, and we're still not going to have a legit big man.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:05 AM   #41
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How many of those AD's are at top 20 all time basketball programs?

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...ams-based-poll
Quite a few. UCLA, Indiana, Illinois, Syracuse, Ohio St, Georgetown, Notre Dame. And that doesn't include three programs (UConn, Arizona, and Louisville) who have had great runs over that period but have also fired coaches and/or found themselves in the middle of major scandal.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:06 AM   #42
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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I'm not content winning 7-8 Big 12 games a year and being a 10 seed. Our program is better than that. I haven't done extensive research on what the other Big 12 teams will look like next year, but I see a very similar season next year. We're going to be relying on a lot of new/young faces next year, and we're still not going to have a legit big man.
Even more than that, we are unlikely to have a team full of players that will be willing to FIGHT and play HARD for their coach.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:06 AM   #43
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Quite a few. UCLA, Indiana, Illinois, Syracuse, Ohio St, Georgetown, Notre Dame. And that doesn't include three programs (UConn, Arizona, and Louisville) who have had great runs over that period but have also fired coaches and/or found themselves in the middle of major scandal.
yea they fire coaches for not living up to the standards of the program. Just like OU basketball hasn't lived up to its standards the last 3 years
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:11 AM   #44
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Agreed. His statement is just an excuse. The Big 12 has been PLENTY tough over the years. It's no more difficult today than it was 10 years ago.
big conf rating under the last 3 coaches no good data pre big 12
96-97 2nd best conf
97-98 8th best conf
98-99 7th best conf
99-00 7th best conf
00-01 6th best conf
01-02 3rd best conf
02-03 best conf
03-04 8th best conf
04-05 3rd best conf
05-06 5th best conf
06-07 7th best conf
07-08 2nd best conf
08-09 3rd best conf
09-10 best conf
10-11 3rd best conf
11-12 3rd best conf
12-13 5th best conf
13-14 best conf
14-15 best conf
15-16 best conf
16-17 2nd best conf
17-18 best conf
18-19 best conf

Kelvin average 5th best conf Capel average 3.2 best conf kruger average 1.8 best conf and 1.17 the last 6 years

kelvin feasted on a much easier conf
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:12 AM   #45
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

next year will be the most talented roster of the kruger era
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:12 AM   #46
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yea they fire coaches for not living up to the standards of the program. Just like OU basketball hasn't lived up to its standards the last 3 years
So I will take that as a concession that you can't logically debate my point that we have had more success than those programs over the last 7 years, so you have instead resorted to your opinion about a much smaller sample size.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:14 AM   #47
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So I will take that as a concession that you can't logically debate my point that we have had more success than those programs over the last 7 years, so you have instead resorted to your opinion about a much smaller sample size.
No i can argue your point, out side of 2 years, lon has had teams below the standard of OU. Including the only 20 loss team in OU history. We as a program are better than that. 12.5% of the time he is at the standard of the proram, 12.5% he exceeded it, 75% he is below it including one of the worst seasons ever at OU. IF you had those results at your job you would be fired.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:16 AM   #48
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No i can argue your point, out side of 2 years, lon has had teams below the standard of OU. Including the only 20 loss team in OU history. We as a program are better than that. 12.5% of the time he is at the standard of the proram, 12.5% he exceeded it, 75% he is below it including one of the worst seasons ever at OU. IF you had those results at your job you would be fired.
what is the "standard"
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:27 AM   #49
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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Agreed. His statement is just an excuse. The Big 12 has been PLENTY tough over the years. It's no more difficult today than it was 10 years ago.
While I agree the top half of the conference was every bit as tough 10, 15, 20 years ago as today (perhaps even slightly better), there were also some "gimmes" we could count on (ex: aTm under Melvin Watkins, early years of Scott Drew at Baylor, plus Colorado and Nebraska most years). As such, the bottom half is much better today than it was back then.

I'm extremely disappointed we could not take care of business and beat WVU last night. I'm not ready to move on from Coach Kruger (though I wish he upgraded his assistants), but acknowledge that he may be on the hot seat next year if we have to keep sweating out Selection Sunday. Like you and others have pointed out, our program is better than that.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:31 AM   #50
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Default Re: Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

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what is the "standard"
73% winning Percentage
67% conference winning percentage
Average finish in Conference 3
Win the conference 20% of the time
Win the conference tournament 20% of the time
out of the 1st round of the NCAA tournament 50% of the time (Including season where OU is in the NIT)
1 season of no post season at all

Like we had under Billy and Kelvin

Under Lon

60% winning percentage
50% conference winning percentage
Average finish in Conference 5
Win the conference 0% of the time
Win the conference tournament 0% of the time
out of the first round 25% of the time
2 seasons of no post season at all
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