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Old 03-11-2019, 09:27 AM   #26
skyvue
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Default Re: Manek

Manek was sick for a while and lost 10-12 pounds. You can see he's thinner now than when the season started.

He's been asked to play a role this season that I don't think was ever envisioned for him, and he's been a key player for us. We'd have been MUCH worse without him. It's amazing to me that he's coming in for criticism, but I suppose I should never be surprised when a certain faction of our fans turns on a guy.

3rd in minutes played
2nd in points (and points per minute played)
3rd in rebounds (2nd in rebounds per minute played)
4th in 3pt pct (by a very slim margin--he's virtually tied for 3rd, and Odomes is second, on just 16 attempts, so you could really move Manek up to a tie for 2nd)

Yep, he pretty much sucks. Bench him.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:29 AM   #27
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Default Re: Manek

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Originally Posted by skyvue View Post
Manek was sick for a while and lost 10-12 pounds. You can see he's thinner now than when the season started.

He's been asked to play a role this season that I don't think was ever envisioned for him, and he's been a key player for us. We'd have been MUCH worse without him. It's amazing to me that he's coming in for criticism, but I suppose I should never be surprised when a certain faction of our fans turns on a guy.

3rd in minutes played
2nd in points (and points per minute played)
3rd in rebounds (2nd in rebounds per minute played)
4th in 3pt pct (by a very slim margin--he's virtually tied for 3rd, and Odomes is second, on just 16 attempts, so you could really move Manek up to a tie for 2nd)

Yep, he pretty much sucks. Bench him.
Go take a midol.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:30 AM   #28
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Default Re: Manek

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Originally Posted by oudna View Post
Go take a midol.
Thanks for your insightful reply.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:45 AM   #29
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Default Re: Manek

Insightful, like making up sht like “he sucks” or “bench him”, which literally no one has said?

Grow some thicker skin, princess.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:59 AM   #30
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Default Re: Manek

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Thanks for your insightful reply.
People grow tired of back handed comments just like you don't enjoy player criticism. You are not privy to making the distinction as to which one is the lesser of two evils but you do get to decide of whether you will be a willing participant.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:08 AM   #31
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Default Re: Manek

He's clearly one of our 5 best players but I'm not sure if that's because of his talent level or the overall talent on the roster. He has an excellent shooting touch when left open but as others have said he struggles to create his own shot. The biggest issue with Brady is he doesn't seem to like defense very much and rebounding even less than that. Some teams can play a 6'10" shooter without expectation of being physical and rebounding but this roster can't handle it. He has to be able to do all and so far he's not able or willing, not sure which one.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:12 AM   #32
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I don't care if Manek gets mad, cusses, and slaps his hands together when he misses a shot or thinks a foul should have been called, but I do get upset when he doesn't hustle back on defense while he is doing those things. I think it is fair to say that he needs to do a better job of using his anger in a positive way -- some guys can do that, others can't.

That said, I think some people have clearly gone overboard in acting like the guy isn't a good Big 12 player. He would get a lot of playing time on any team in this league, and he has definitely improved from last season. He needs to get physically stronger, and there's no reason to think that can't happen for a naturally skinny, 20-year-old kid who probably didn't do much lifting till he got to college. He has developed a better midrange game than last year, but still needs to get much better at finishing at the rim and through contact. But again, it seems like some people want to constantly point out the flaws of our players while ignoring the fact that players on other teams have the same issues. KSU fans wanted to pull their hair out for the first two years of Dean Wade's career because they thought he was way too passive, and even to this day, he has games where he defers too much and loses confidence too easily for a player of his caliber.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:12 AM   #33
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Default Re: Manek

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Insightful, like making up sht like “he sucks” or “bench him”, which literally no one has said?

Grow some thicker skin, princess.
I'd say it's you who needs the thicker skin, internet tough guy.

I offered actual facts in my reply, not just feelings and opinions. For example, the fact that Manek was fighting an illness for a prolonged period of time and lost a significant amount of weight (but he's still being asked to battle inside).

And a list of stats that pretty much confirm that the notion that he's deserving of a starting role (one poster repeatedly insisted he wasn't, which inspired my "Bench him" crack).

Manek has been among the least of our worries this season.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:15 AM   #34
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Default Re: Manek

Yeah, the idea that Manek sucks is ridiculous. He is the third best player on a team that is going to make the tournament, and he's just a sophomore. He needs to mature, but he is a good player.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:20 AM   #35
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Default Re: Manek

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I'd say it's you who needs the thicker skin, internet tough guy.

I offered actual facts in my reply, not just feelings and opinions. For example, the fact that Manek was fighting an illness for a prolonged period of time and lost a significant amount of weight (but he's still being asked to battle inside).

And a list of stats that pretty much confirm that the notion that he's deserving of a starting role (one poster repeatedly insisted he wasn't, which inspired my "Bench him" crack).

Manek has been among the least of our worries this season.
Chances are perspective is based on information, both qualitative and quantitative, as you would likely agree with. Now your position might suggest that you have more information than the posters you call out and that conveys they should not make the comments based on this lack of info. But what if there are those who have more information than you and thus you should keep your comments to yourself. This is what is called an endless cycle. Perhaps a shorter horse is in order.

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Old 03-11-2019, 10:43 AM   #36
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Default Re: Manek

I'm asking this question without doing my homework first, which I usually don't do.

But using the Kelvin era as a gauge (since we were a consistent top 25 team), how many 4/5 guys that started during that era, moreso 4 guys, would Manek have started over?

Not Minor. Not Eduardo. No Hump. No Ace. Not Bookout. No Brown. I'd take Selvy over him. Not Abercrombie. I'd take Renzi Stone over him, though I could possibly see this one as being debatable (4 vs 5 also). Did Johnnie Gilbert start much? Might take Manek over him.

Not trying to bash the kid, but OU has had a long line of 4's that I'd take over him. I didn't even get into the Capel/Kruger eras, where I'd take Thomas, Griffin (maybe both), and Osby over him. That's the point I'm trying to make. Maybe he makes a jump the next two years and is a better all around player. But he should not have been starting these past two years, and he wouldn't have at most any other point in the last 20+ years of OU basketball.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:09 AM   #37
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Default Re: Manek

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Originally Posted by WTSooner View Post
I'm asking this question without doing my homework first, which I usually don't do.

But using the Kelvin era as a gauge (since we were a consistent top 25 team), how many 4/5 guys that started during that era, moreso 4 guys, would Manek have started over?

Not Minor. Not Eduardo. No Hump. No Ace. Not Bookout. No Brown. I'd take Selvy over him. Not Abercrombie. I'd take Renzi Stone over him, though I could possibly see this one as being debatable (4 vs 5 also). Did Johnnie Gilbert start much? Might take Manek over him.

Not trying to bash the kid, but OU has had a long line of 4's that I'd take over him. I didn't even get into the Capel/Kruger eras, where I'd take Thomas, Griffin (maybe both), and Osby over him. That's the point I'm trying to make. Maybe he makes a jump the next two years and is a better all around player. But he should not have been starting these past two years, and he wouldn't have at most any other point in the last 20+ years of OU basketball.



To be fair, I think you need to ask that question when Manek is a senior. A bigger, stronger Manek two years from now could be an entirely different player than the one we’re seeing now.

Most of the players on your list were not much of a threat to score from the perimeter. Ace, Eduardo and Selvy were to some extent. Osby his senior season. Griffin didnt move to beyond the arc until he was the NBA.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:13 AM   #38
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Default Re: Manek

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Originally Posted by WTSooner View Post
I'm asking this question without doing my homework first, which I usually don't do.

But using the Kelvin era as a gauge (since we were a consistent top 25 team), how many 4/5 guys that started during that era, moreso 4 guys, would Manek have started over?

Not Minor. Not Eduardo. No Hump. No Ace. Not Bookout. No Brown. I'd take Selvy over him. Not Abercrombie. I'd take Renzi Stone over him, though I could possibly see this one as being debatable (4 vs 5 also). Did Johnnie Gilbert start much? Might take Manek over him.

Not trying to bash the kid, but OU has had a long line of 4's that I'd take over him. I didn't even get into the Capel/Kruger eras, where I'd take Thomas, Griffin (maybe both), and Osby over him. That's the point I'm trying to make. Maybe he makes a jump the next two years and is a better all around player. But he should not have been starting these past two years, and he wouldn't have at most any other point in the last 20+ years of OU basketball.
Are we saying take these guys at their peak, or take sophomore them? I think that makes a difference. Manek still has plenty of time to grow, and I think it's important to remember a lot of guys who turned out great didn't start that way.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:16 AM   #39
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Default Re: Manek

I think including Centers is a little much. As much as debated about Doolittle being a 5, Manek is certainly not a 5. Hump, Bookout, Brown, Stone and Gilbert were strictly under the basket post players.

Manek is a considerably better shooter than Thomas TGriff and Osby. Manek is a stretch 4, OU has never really had a true stretch 4.

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Old 03-11-2019, 11:20 AM   #40
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Default Re: Manek

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Originally Posted by WTSooner View Post
But using the Kelvin era as a gauge (since we were a consistent top 25 team), how many 4/5 guys that started during that era, moreso 4 guys, would Manek have started over?

Not Minor. Not Eduardo. No Hump. No Ace. Not Bookout. No Brown. I'd take Selvy over him. Not Abercrombie. I'd take Renzi Stone over him, though I could possibly see this one as being debatable (4 vs 5 also). Did Johnnie Gilbert start much? Might take Manek over him.
We're the same era, so here goes:

1. Minor was a three. No comparison.
2. Eduardo every day.
3. Hump, but barely.
4. Which year of Ace? 2001, Manek. 2002, Ace by a gargantuan margin.
5. Bookout - Kelvin's Spangler
6. Jabahri if it's a weed smoking contest. Otherwise, Manek.
7. Selvy? Manek for sure.
8. I would've named my daughter Ernie had my wife allowed. The Big A for sure.
9. Renzi? Hands of Stone? Now you're reaching. No contest, Manek.
10. Johnnie Gilbert? Manek, and it's not close.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #41
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Default Re: Manek

He kills us when he tries to play post defense, block out an aggressive offensive rebounder and is a bad passer. Good shooter when his feet are set. He is soft and that is not going to change.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:31 AM   #42
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Default Re: Manek

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Originally Posted by Sooner04 View Post
We're the same era, so here goes:

1. Minor was a three. No comparison.
2. Eduardo every day.
3. Hump, but barely.
4. Which year of Ace? 2001, Manek. 2002, Ace by a gargantuan margin.
5. Bookout - Kelvin's Spangler
6. Jabahri if it's a weed smoking contest. Otherwise, Manek.
7. Selvy? Manek for sure.
8. I would've named my daughter Ernie had my wife allowed. The Big A for sure.
9. Renzi? Hands of Stone? Now you're reaching. No contest, Manek.
10. Johnnie Gilbert? Manek, and it's not close.
Seems a pretty fair assessment. I don't think Renzi himself would choose Renzi in that debate. And I'd add that many of the guys cited only played as juniors and seniors. And as others have noted, it seems a bit unfair to bash Manek for some of his weaknesses, which would not be nearly as big a deal if he didn't have to play out of position. For example, while Selvy occasionally had to defend a true post if Ace or Brown was resting or in foul trouble, he didn't have to do it for entire games like Manek is this year.

Also, were you at least able to convince your wife to nickname your daughter Skeeter?
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:33 AM   #43
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I offered actual facts in my reply, not just feelings and opinions.
I said Manek statistically isn’t any better than last year. Those are actual facts.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:47 AM   #44
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Default Re: Manek

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Originally Posted by Sooner04 View Post
We're the same era, so here goes:

1. Minor was a three. No comparison.
2. Eduardo every day.
3. Hump, but barely.
4. Which year of Ace? 2001, Manek. 2002, Ace by a gargantuan margin.
5. Bookout - Kelvin's Spangler
6. Jabahri if it's a weed smoking contest. Otherwise, Manek.
7. Selvy? Manek for sure.
8. I would've named my daughter Ernie had my wife allowed. The Big A for sure.
9. Renzi? Hands of Stone? Now you're reaching. No contest, Manek.
10. Johnnie Gilbert? Manek, and it's not close.
You are only looking at this from a scoring perspective. Or even moreso, shooting. Defense. Rebounding. Toughness. Leadership. Hustle. Consistency. Those things all matter too. I know it gets tough to quantify and compare some of those things, but it has to be done. I don't really care that Manek is a better three point shooter. I care about the overall player.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:49 AM   #45
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I said Manek statistically isn’t any better than last year. Those are actual facts.
Yep. More minutes and more shots, but a lower shooting percentage from 2 and 3, and more than twice as many turnovers per game.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:54 AM   #46
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Default Re: Manek

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Yeah, the idea that Manek sucks is ridiculous. He is the third best player on a team that is going to make the tournament, and he's just a sophomore. He needs to mature, but he is a good player.
second maybe best
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:05 PM   #47
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Default Re: Manek

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I said Manek statistically isn’t any better than last year. Those are actual facts.
Here are some actual actual facts for you:

Got Better (total of six categories)
Points per game, FTs per game, FT percentage, rebounds, steals, assists

Stayed the Same (four categories)
FGs per game, 3pt FGs per game, turnovers, blocks

Got Worse (two categories)
FG% (47% in 2018, 46% in 2019), 3pt FG% (38%/35%)

And it shouldn't be overlooked that he was asked to play a very different role this season than last. He was brought in as a stretch four but was asked to be a more traditional four this season.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:05 PM   #48
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Default Re: Manek

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Originally Posted by WTSooner View Post
You are only looking at this from a scoring perspective. Or even moreso, shooting. Defense. Rebounding. Toughness. Leadership. Hustle. Consistency. Those things all matter too. I know it gets tough to quantify and compare some of those things, but it has to be done. I don't really care that Manek is a better three point shooter. I care about the overall player.
I'll stand by my assessments. I'll assume you won't look to Ryan Humphrey for leadership! A malcontent who pouted after our first win in Stillwater since 1993 because he failed to score.

I'll take Jabahri if we're playing Kansas, not the guy who got booted from the team prior to Senior Day for copious amounts of cannabis consumption. And you got no consistency from Selvy either.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:20 PM   #49
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I don't care if Manek gets mad, cusses, and slaps his hands together when he misses a shot or thinks a foul should have been called, but I do get upset when he doesn't hustle back on defense while he is doing those things. I think it is fair to say that he needs to do a better job of using his anger in a positive way -- some guys can do that, others can't.
This would be my biggest criticism too. We see it too many times a game from him. My next would be that there are usually 3-5 possessions a game where he's shooting a 3 or long jumper, no matter what happens. You just know when he's getting the ball, whether he's covered or not, he's shooting. Period. I think sometimes the first criticism can play directly into the second one.

Brady will be a four-year starter for this team, and he will deserve it. He'll leave Norman as one of the more consistent four-year big men we will have had in recent memory. None of that means he can't be criticized and/or get better at things that aren't measure statistically. And what some of us are criticizing isn't too much to ask for. It's as much about growing up (on the court) as anything. It's not about practicing harder, working harder, or any of that, it's about simply playing smarter and with more focus.

One other thing I'll toss in...I see there are some who are asking/hoping he puts on 20 pounds of muscle to develop more into a asset down low. I'm not so sure this would be a good thing, b/c there's no guarantee adding 20 pounds of muscle would mean keeping his decent outside range. I think it took him some time this year to smooth things out a bit, after adding some size from last year, adding even more of it could be at a detriment to his outside game.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:45 PM   #50
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Default Re: Manek

Brady is good.
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