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Old 01-12-2019, 04:56 PM   #76
soonermike22
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

Syb, you write well, argue well, and find "facts" that seem to support your argument.
But you are way off base in this thread.

For young blacks who don't know what the 50's and 60's were like, things may seem tough for non-whites, but it is nothing like what rural Oklahoma, urban Oklahoma City, or political power in Oklahoma it once was (50's and 60's). I know and have been around many students at OU and integration is a fact. "White Oklahoma" keeping recruits away is horsefeathers.
We don't know if supervision from the AD, self motivation, or other factors have pushed wbb to work harder lately, but they seem to have recruited better prospects the last 2 years. Which also means the coaches were less than effective in evaluating/recruiting several years before that.
Eventually, poor results catch up with you. That will happen to wbb if we don't do better. Both won-loss records, and attendance indicate a problem.
My disagreement is with the way you interpret what is happening in wbb, and reasons for it. Let's keep it friendly and argue about basketball and bb related issues, not other stuff

Last edited by soonermike22; 01-12-2019 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:17 PM   #77
SoonerSpock
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

Interesting side note to this life for blacks in Norman. I was talking today with a cousin that played basketball and ran track for OU in the mid-60's attemptiing to get a better perspective circumstances from a jock's viewpoint. At that time OKC Douglas HB Ben Hart one of the first star blacks to play for the Sooners went to Port Robertson who ran all things off field for OU athletics especially academic. Was also the wrestling coach for several years.

Anyway Ben told Port there was nothing for the black player to do socially in Norman. Port almost immediately made arrangement for a limo to take black kids that desired to go to OKC for weekly social outings. These trips went on for years but he said he had no way of knowing exactly how long.

Technically I would surmise this was a violation of student benefit rules but what was allowed by the NCAA in the mid-60's is totally different than what is permitted today. So who knows.

https://newsok.com/article/1934096/p...-sooners-lives
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Last edited by SoonerSpock; 01-12-2019 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:16 PM   #78
Sweetest OU Girl
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerSpock View Post
Interesting side note to this life for blacks in Norman. I was talking today with a cousin that played basketball and ran track for OU in the mid-60's attemptiing to get a better perspective circumstances from a jock's viewpoint. At that time OKC Douglas HB Ben Hart one of the first star blacks to play for the Sooners went to Port Robertson who ran all things off field for OU athletics especially academic. Was also the wrestling coach for several years.

Anyway Ben told Port there was nothing for the black player to do socially in Norman. Port almost immediately made arrangement for a limo to take black kids that desired to go to OKC for weekly social outings. These trips went on for years but he said he had no way of knowing exactly how long.

Technically I would surmise this was a violation of student benefit rules but what was allowed by the NCAA in the mid-60's is totally different than what is permitted today. So who knows.

https://newsok.com/article/1934096/p...-sooners-lives
Ben Hart. My uncle (he went to Midwest City High School) tells me Ben Hart is likely the greatest high school player in Oklahoma history.

He loves to tell about the night in a game against Midwest City (MWC and Douglas were the best two teams in the state he says) when Douglas won something like 21-7. He says Ben came out at quarterback and threw a touchdown pass, later came out at wide receiver and caught a touchdown pass, and then came out as running back and ran for a touchdown.

He should have been the quarterback at OU, and might well have made all american at QB ...but that was back in the day when....well you know.

Last edited by Sweetest OU Girl; 01-12-2019 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:12 AM   #79
sybarite
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soonermike22 View Post
Syb, you write well, argue well, and find "facts" that seem to support your argument.
But you are way off base in this thread.

For young blacks who don't know what the 50's and 60's were like, things may seem tough for non-whites, but it is nothing like what rural Oklahoma, urban Oklahoma City, or political power in Oklahoma it once was (50's and 60's). I know and have been around many students at OU and integration is a fact. "White Oklahoma" keeping recruits away is horsefeathers.
We don't know if supervision from the AD, self motivation, or other factors have pushed wbb to work harder lately, but they seem to have recruited better prospects the last 2 years. Which also means the coaches were less than effective in evaluating/recruiting several years before that.
Eventually, poor results catch up with you. That will happen to wbb if we don't do better. Both won-loss records, and attendance indicate a problem.
My disagreement is with the way you interpret what is happening in wbb, and reasons for it. Let's keep it friendly and argue about basketball and bb related issues, not other stuff
Appreciate your opinion, and the possibility is that you are right. But, I think you are probably white, as are most posters. And, I suspect that your responses would be what the white responses would be on the polls that show the difference in how whites and blacks view racism in this country. Think about it.

I do not hold that this is the ONLY issue holding OU back. I think there are a number of issues. I also think there is a lack of realistic historical perception. Except for moments in time, we are not a basketball school. We have never had a women's program that would attract anyone's attention prior to Sherri.

I throw out things for consideration because I think the idea that Sherri can be replaced by someone who can just get out and recruit harder is folly.
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:20 PM   #80
Oliver Hardy
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

We were a basketball school when Billy Tubbs and Kelvin Sampson were here for years. We were a women's basketball school briefly during the years of the twins, Abi, D-Rob, Stacy, Leah, etc. -- all because of Sherri.

Kruger seems to be doing a good job, although I no longer follow men's basketball at OU or nationally, so I am no judge.

We were a wrestling school nationally for decades. We've been a baseball school in the past.

Softball? Who followed OU before Gasso. (Gasso can recruit good players and make them better. Why doesn't Sherri?)

The idea that OU can't be a national women's basketball school AGAIN because Norman is deficient socially and racially, is ludicrous on it's face.

The problems OU has with producing a very good to great women's basketball team have nothing to do with any of that.

It has everything to do with Sherri and her staff, who they are signing and how they coach.

I have a question I will pose: Which OUWBB players that have been recruited over the last seven years have ended their careers much better as players than when they arrived?

Let's see your list.

Last edited by Oliver Hardy; 01-14-2019 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:44 PM   #81
Soonerguy06
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

I think the only player that made a noticeable jump was Danielle Robinson, from her freshman to sophomore season. Courtney Paris actually got worse the longer she was at OU, and so have about 80% of the other players that have come in, unfortunately....
that in itself is most likely why these big time recruits do not sign with us. We cannot produce all American on a consistent basis. Now this being said Texas gets a heap load of talent year in and year out and produces average teams, mostly overrated in my opinion... So, who's the better Coach, Sheri or Karen???
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:36 PM   #82
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

ViVi and Kaylon Williams got better. So did Ny Stevenson.

Maddie didn't probably to some extent injury related.

Ortiz didnt, Little, G Carter, L Williams,Wyatt didn't

Campbell did until senior year, then regressed. Cornet didn't

Big dropoff by Ellenberg senior year. Hook did, Griffin didn't

McFarland big improvement, Hand not but again injury.

Rothlisberger and D Rob improved.

Amanda Thompson and Abi Olajuwan did, Ashley P did, Courtney didn't

Rush did, Higgins and Welch maybe a little improvement.

Probably some will differ. Certainly players who were reserves their freshman year improved with more playing time. But a number with a lot of playing time as freshmen didn't seem to grow.

When I look back the lack of improvement in a lot of players seemed to noticably increase after our last final four season. The may also coincide with some key coaches leaving the program.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:20 PM   #83
Oliver Hardy
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Default OU v. TX (Jan 9)

You go back before the timeline I set. I agree that in Sherri’s earlier years players did get better.

Last 5-7, I have trouble naming any, but I would agree that Vivi got better, maybe Campbell.

Almost a decade during my timeline and we can agree on two getting better.

Does that sound like a coaching staff that is getting the job done?



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Last edited by Oliver Hardy; 01-14-2019 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:27 PM   #84
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I’ll add McFarland. So — 3.


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Old 01-15-2019, 07:53 AM   #85
Soonerguy06
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Default Re: OU v. TX (Jan 9)

My point exactly, this coaching staff sucks. There's just no other way around it. SC was a good coach at one point, no doubt about that. And just because she's gotten a few quality recruits in doesn't mean things will turn around. With all the talent we supposedly brought in this year I thought we would be better than what we are now despite them, being young. It's a really really sad time for a sooner women's basketball fan right now :-(
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