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Old 11-04-2019, 11:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Redshirts

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Originally Posted by Sooner04 View Post
Do you guys really set your watches to contributions from Kuath and Garang?
There's a huge distance between predicting failure for each of five different players (and thereby the team itself) and setting our watches by their contributions. I suspect that middle ground is where most of us are positioned -- I know it's where I sit. I'm taking a hopeful wait-and-see attitude. I'm counting on nothing, but I'm darned sure not ruling out success for this team (not to mention the next two or three) before the season's even started.
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Old 11-05-2019, 12:45 AM   #27
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Tough crowd!

I don't expect meaningful minutes ever from Kuath, Issanza, Merritt, Garang OR Williams. I lump Williams in there because it's been ages since a JUCO has contributed to a winning Sooner team and I see no reason to believe he's the one who will flip the script.
Ever?

Isn’t Kuath slated to contribute now?

Seems you’re very narrow-minded about where players come from.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:38 AM   #28
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The problem is that some Sooner fans have hyped some juco players as difference makers over the past several years and that just hasn't been the case. "Difference makers" are about 1 in a 1000 in the juco ranks now days and we haven't gotten one in a long time. So I'm with 04 wrt not taking jucos.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:39 AM   #29
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Kansas just took a JUCO. Does that fit the narrative?
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:08 AM   #30
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Default Re: Redshirts

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Tough crowd!

I don't expect meaningful minutes ever from Kuath, Issanza, Merritt, Garang OR Williams. I lump Williams in there because it's been ages since a JUCO has contributed to a winning Sooner team and I see no reason to believe he's the one who will flip the script.

Here's the long and short of it: if we're as good a program as we think we are then we don't need to be taking flyers on some of these guys. We are three hours north of DFW: and if the choice comes down to a 6'6'' forward who can play versus a 6'11" "athlete" from parts unknown then I want the Metroplex kid every single time.

I know I'm cynical. I'm nowhere near the sunshine pumper I used to be. Do you guys really set your watches to contributions from Kuath and Garang? We're having to teach the low end of the bench how to play when they're supposed to be good scouts and play like somebody else!

I would love to be wrong. I will live and die with every shot either way.
Oh no, you have every right to be cynical from the product that has been put out the last 3 years. A product that is inexcusable with Final Four momentum and overall alot going for it. I too scratch my head over some of the recruiting decisions/takes Kruger and staff have made. Conversely though I was surprised/excited at the slight uptick in recruiting we got with Harmon, Iwuokor, and Hill. Of course the jury still will be out.. The others are headscratchers. But I, like you, will live and die with every shot so i'm hopeful that some of those guys pan out.

It's time for OU to stake their claim back to the top 3 of the conference, competing for it. Pretty sure Beard has silenced any and all lectures that it's not possible for OU to win the conference.... Let's go!
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:46 AM   #31
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Default Re: Redshirts

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Originally Posted by Sooner04 View Post
Tough crowd!

I don't expect meaningful minutes ever from Kuath, Issanza, Merritt, Garang OR Williams. I lump Williams in there because it's been ages since a JUCO has contributed to a winning Sooner team and I see no reason to believe he's the one who will flip the script.

Here's the long and short of it: if we're as good a program as we think we are then we don't need to be taking flyers on some of these guys. We are three hours north of DFW: and if the choice comes down to a 6'6'' forward who can play versus a 6'11" "athlete" from parts unknown then I want the Metroplex kid every single time.

I know I'm cynical. I'm nowhere near the sunshine pumper I used to be. Do you guys really set your watches to contributions from Kuath and Garang? We're having to teach the low end of the bench how to play when they're supposed to be good scouts and play like somebody else!

I would love to be wrong. I will live and die with every shot either way.
It will be awhile but I absolutely expect big things from AG. He is a wing with great height and length. He’s a great kid who is working hard. If he doesn’t start in his career we are loaded.
Williams and Kur need to contribute this year. I agree Williams will take time but hopefully he progresses as the year goes along.
Kur probably won’t have many big games but he should intermittently help us win.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:23 AM   #32
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Wow...a bunch of morons on this post! So some of you want the bottom SIX players to transfer...even though you have basically seen them play practically ZERO times??!!

Some of you equate to some of the football morons on the rivals site!! And that isn’t anything to be proud of!!
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:25 AM   #33
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Default Re: Redshirts

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Kansas just took a JUCO. Does that fit the narrative?
It means they're in trouble
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:03 PM   #34
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Default Re: Redshirts

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Wow...a bunch of morons on this post! So some of you want the bottom SIX players to transfer...even though you have basically seen them play practically ZERO times??!!

Some of you equate to some of the football morons on the rivals site!! And that isn’t anything to be proud of!!
there's little to talk about yet so they stir up crap by making outrageous conclusions. children.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:04 PM   #35
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I'm not sure why, seven seasons later, you're referencing the 2012-13 season, which is literally the last time OU finished in last place.
2018/2019 - OU finished 7th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings
2017/2018 - OU finished 9th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings
2016/2017 - OU finished 9th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings

I was certain one of those years OU entered the Big 12 Tournament as the 10 seed, but I appear to be wrong... But still, the sentiment remains the same... People aren't upset that OU is not 13 players deep, they are upset that the players being brought in aren't elevating the team out of the conference cellar.

By the way, OU is predicted to finish in the conference cellar again this year and many are hoping to open the season with a 1 point win against the University of Texas at San Antonio.

WichitaSooner needs to address that, and not continue to ignore it. It's not about being 13 deep, it's about not enough talent being brought in top to bottom to get out of the cave.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:14 PM   #36
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I have argued ad nauseam about recruiting juco players.... and the conclusion I have come to after all the debates is, this staff shouldn't be recruiting them. Nothing wrong with recruiting them when you are competent in doing so, but this staff clearly can't figure that out. Of course, they bring in plenty of non junior college duds too which is why OU finishes where it does in the Big 12 under this regime.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:26 PM   #37
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I will add to that, however, that OU's failures in recruiting junior college players make absolutely no sense... If you are a paid professional coach who can properly evaluate talent, you don't miss on the impact guys they have whiffed on that are in the local recruiting region while going to other ends of the globe for guys who can't play.

I have MANY examples of this, that I believe are a smoking gun for my side of this argument, but won't rehash it unless someone posts something in here that provides me the necessary motivation to do so.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: Redshirts

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2018/2019 - OU finished 7th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings
2017/2018 - OU finished 9th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings
2016/2017 - OU finished 9th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings

I was certain one of those years OU entered the Big 12 Tournament as the 10 seed, but I appear to be wrong... But still, the sentiment remains the same... People aren't upset that OU is not 13 players deep, they are upset that the players being brought in aren't elevating the team out of the conference cellar.

By the way, OU is predicted to finish in the conference cellar again this year and many are hoping to open the season with a 1 point win against the University of Texas at San Antonio.

WichitaSooner needs to address that, and not continue to ignore it. It's not about being 13 deep, it's about not enough talent being brought in top to bottom to get out of the cave.
Ignore it? That's the exact point I addressed yesterday. It has nothing to do with depth. I expressly stated that what we need is for our top 7-8 guys to be more talented and play more consistently than the past two or three years. But the last part of that sentence is something so many on here ignore. People act like this is a seven year trend. We made the FF four years ago on the heels of a Sweet 16 season. Three years ago was a disaster due to graduation, injuries, and a lack of leadership. The past two years have been a failure only if you are one of the people who focuses solely on conference record and discounts NCAA tournament berths and great noncon success. I think every game matters. Our lack of conference success bugs the heck out of me and it is why I don't consider the past two years to be unqualified successes. But I also value going 10-2 and 12-1 against a great noncon, and certainly value making the tournament, which is why I don't think we've been even close to the unmitigated disaster many suggest. If our down years include NCAA tournament bids, that's a pretty good spot to be in, and one that just about every program outside the blue bloods would happily take. Including Tech and every other program in the conference other than Kansas.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: Redshirts

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2018/2019 - OU finished 7th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings
2017/2018 - OU finished 9th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings
2016/2017 - OU finished 9th out of 10 in the final Big 12 standings

I was certain one of those years OU entered the Big 12 Tournament as the 10 seed, but I appear to be wrong... But still, the sentiment remains the same... People aren't upset that OU is not 13 players deep, they are upset that the players being brought in aren't elevating the team out of the conference cellar.

By the way, OU is predicted to finish in the conference cellar again this year and many are hoping to open the season with a 1 point win against the University of Texas at San Antonio.

WichitaSooner needs to address that, and not continue to ignore it. It's not about being 13 deep, it's about not enough talent being brought in top to bottom to get out of the cave.
UTSA is good, potentially a tourney team. One would expect that missing your best player and adding 6 new players in the top 9 could potentially mean a slow start.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:54 PM   #40
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I have argued ad nauseam about recruiting juco players....
That's the most truthful thing you've ever posted on this board.

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By the way, OU is predicted to finish in the conference cellar again this year and many are hoping to open the season with a 1 point win against the University of Texas at San Antonio.
You do know that words have meanings, yes? "Literally" means "actually true, not figuratively so" so you were wrong about us "literally" finishing last in recent years.

Similarly, "finishing in the cellar," when used to discuss the standings for sports teams, means finishing in last place. OU has NOT finished in the cellar in recent memory (so you're "again" doesn't apply) and the Sooners are NOT predicted to finish in last place this season. Are you simply unable to compose a truthful response?

And there weren't "many people" who posted about a 1-point win against UTSA -- there was one: me. And I didn't say I was "hoping for" a one-point win; I said I'd be happy with it, and that's true. My general approach to any game, in any sport, is "just win." Give me the victory and let's move on. But that especially applies to early season games with such an inexperienced team and even more so when one of our best players, one of only three returning from last season, is being held out of the game and still yet more so when we're playing a team that's picked to finish second in Conference USA.

So you're damn straight I'd take a one-point win tonight. I'd also take a win by two points, three points, 10 points, 30 points. In the end, though, a win is a win, and a one-point victory is infinitely better than a one-point loss.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:01 PM   #41
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Default Re: Redshirts

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You do know that words have meanings, yes? "Literally" means "actually true, not figuratively so" so you were wrong about us "literally" finishing last in recent years.
Yes, and when I said that I thought OU had finished last. Turns out it was next to last a few times, so I was wrong, but when I used the word "literally" it was accurate usage because I thought we were 10th.

Quote:
Similarly, "finishing in the cellar," when used to discuss the standings for sports teams, means finishing in last place. OU has NOT finished in the cellar in recent memory (so you're "again" doesn't apply) and the Sooners are NOT predicted to finish in last place this season. Are you simply unable to compose a truthful response?
That is how you took it... It is a figure of speech for "at or near the bottom" to me... That was clear given context.

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And there weren't "many people" who posted about a 1-point win against UTSA -- there was one: me.
Who says I was referring only to people on this forum?

Quote:
My general approach to any game, in any sport, is "just win." Give me the victory and let's move on. But that especially applies to early season games with such an inexperienced team and even more so when one of our best players, one of only three returning from last season, is being held out of the game and still yet more so when we're playing a team that's picked to finish second in Conference USA.
A fine opinion.

Quote:
That's the most truthful thing you've ever posted on this board.
You are grouchy.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:14 PM   #42
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2017-18 we finished sixth in the conference. It’s not 9th as stated. We were seeded 9th in the tournament but it was a tie for 6th in the standings.

It was a horrible finish to the year. The only year we finish outright 9th our best player developed a serious mental illness. I’ll give them a break.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:19 PM   #43
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UTSA is good, potentially a tourney team. One would expect that missing your best player and adding 6 new players in the top 9 could potentially mean a slow start.
Thanks for the sanity and the helpful reminder.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:28 PM   #44
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I thought the term “cellar” meant last place.

I’m not sure people from Oklahoma are qualified to talk about cellars.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:36 PM   #45
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I thought the term “cellar” meant last place.
It does. You could ask 1,000 sports fans what it means and they'd all say "last place."
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:49 PM   #46
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I think it does mean "last place" but could loosely be interpreted to mean "bottom floor."

If you've got two or three teams at 2-16, 3-15, 4-14, I think you could safely call them all in the basement. 9th place and one game out of 5th is not the cellar though.
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:37 PM   #47
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Skyvue is just arguing semantics at this point.... In a 10 team league if you finish 7th, 8th, 9th, 9th, etc it is perfectly acceptable to say you have been in the cellar of your league. It's a phrase. It doesn't mean exactly anything.

I guess skyvue would prefer the following:

"They have been in the stairwell that leads downward to the cellar, but aren't in the cellar"

Or, perhaps "they are on the 1st floor, but not in the basement"

"If they were on an elevator, going down, they would be between the 1st floor and the basement".

Perhaps those characterizations would make him happy? I don't know.

Actually, It would probably make more sense to simply state it cleanly and not use common phrases so he can't play these little games he likes to play when he is grouchy. In the future, I will try to be more mindful of how skyvue interprets information and communicate accordingly.
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:17 PM   #48
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Default Re: Redshirts

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Wow...a bunch of morons on this post! So some of you want the bottom SIX players to transfer...even though you have basically seen them play practically ZERO times??!!

Some of you equate to some of the football morons on the rivals site!! And that isn’t anything to be proud of!!
Six is a little extreme, but I'd be okay with the bottom 3-4 players transferring every year. The key is figuring out who the bottom 3-4 players actually are. Calling out specific players is much more difficult to do.
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:24 PM   #49
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There’s only 1 player on scholarship that I don’t think will ever contribute, if that happens then that’s really good.

I’m glad to use 1-2 scholarships on boom or bust projects. You can only play 7-9 in meaningful games so:

9 contributors
2 close to contributing
1-2 projects
0-1 gpa pumpers
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:26 PM   #50
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In the future, I will try to be more mindful of how skyvue interprets information and communicate accordingly.
Clean, clear, precise prose is always appreciated, but I won't hold my breath. And if I'm grouchy, it's because I'm fed up with your consistent ragging on the team and the program, even now when the team hasn't played a single regulation game this season. Preemptive whining is just stupid; they'll be plenty of time for that if and when the team underperforms.

And let's continue with the semantics, shall we? When you criticize "this staff," as you did above, you're living in the past. Two out of our three assistant coaches are new to OU -- that's 66% percent turnover. How about we give the new guys a chance to show what they can do?
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