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Old 08-25-2022, 03:30 AM   #51
Eielson
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

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Aside from “just let the kids play where they want” being a terrible argument, if it happens I’ll be done with the sport.
I hope you follow through on this.
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Old 08-25-2022, 02:03 PM   #52
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

Honestly, I'm skeptical, on account of not being certain about our talent down low, but I hope you're correct.
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Old 09-07-2022, 08:02 AM   #53
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I hope you follow through on this.
cool
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Old 09-08-2022, 01:07 PM   #54
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

I generally agree with Bounce here. I really have no issues with NIL. I do have major issues with unfettered free agency, which is what we have now. I think it’s a negative for the programs and ultimately, a negative for the players.

I am NOT a fan of the AAU culture of “amateur” basketball. I will never be convinced that a kid that plays for 3 HS teams or goes to “school” at a house in Las Vegas is having decisions made for them in THEIR best interest. I think it’s mostly handlers, family, and opportunistic pseudo-agents clinging to these kids and shuffling them here and there under the guise of the players best interest.

The new transfer rules now extend that sliminess. Coach yelled at you at practice? Didn’t play as much in November as you hoped? Ah, the coach is screwing you— let’s look elsewhere. And anyone who thinks the “looking elsewhere” isn’t happening IN SEASON is beyond naive.

A lot of the argument for the transfer rules is that college athletics should mirror the “real world” where people can come and go as they please. You can be the manager at McDonalds on Monday and accept the same job at Burger King on Tuesday if that’s a better situation for you. I mean if we use that logic, then what’s to stop players from transferring in-season? What if a kid is buried on the bench at OU, but KSU has a spot for him? What if a good player is on a bad team? Should he be allowed to bail so he can play in the post season? If we go by “real world” rules then those examples should be allowed as well.

My take is that athletics is NOT the real world. It’s a world based on completion and entertainment. I think allowing the participants to reap more of the rewards (NIL) is fine. I do not think it is in the best interest of anyone for the portal to continue down its current path.
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Old 09-08-2022, 07:58 PM   #55
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

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I generally agree with Bounce here. I really have no issues with NIL. I do have major issues with unfettered free agency, which is what we have now. I think it’s a negative for the programs and ultimately, a negative for the players.

I am NOT a fan of the AAU culture of “amateur” basketball. I will never be convinced that a kid that plays for 3 HS teams or goes to “school” at a house in Las Vegas is having decisions made for them in THEIR best interest. I think it’s mostly handlers, family, and opportunistic pseudo-agents clinging to these kids and shuffling them here and there under the guise of the players best interest.

The new transfer rules now extend that sliminess. Coach yelled at you at practice? Didn’t play as much in November as you hoped? Ah, the coach is screwing you— let’s look elsewhere. And anyone who thinks the “looking elsewhere” isn’t happening IN SEASON is beyond naive.

A lot of the argument for the transfer rules is that college athletics should mirror the “real world” where people can come and go as they please. You can be the manager at McDonalds on Monday and accept the same job at Burger King on Tuesday if that’s a better situation for you. I mean if we use that logic, then what’s to stop players from transferring in-season? What if a kid is buried on the bench at OU, but KSU has a spot for him? What if a good player is on a bad team? Should he be allowed to bail so he can play in the post season? If we go by “real world” rules then those examples should be allowed as well.

My take is that athletics is NOT the real world. It’s a world based on completion and entertainment. I think allowing the participants to reap more of the rewards (NIL) is fine. I do not think it is in the best interest of anyone for the portal to continue down its current path.
I completely agree. I think players should get paid and reap those benefits. However, the transfer portal need to be reigned in. It’s out of control and what is happening is not good for the game, the fans, or the programs.

They could revert back to the old transfer rules and everything would be fine.
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Old 09-09-2022, 02:06 PM   #56
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

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I completely agree. I think players should get paid and reap those benefits. However, the transfer portal need to be reigned in. It’s out of control and what is happening is not good for the game, the fans, or the programs.

They could revert back to the old transfer rules and everything would be fine.
In addition to correcting the portal/transferring, they still need to cap NIL somehow and/or make it where it's at least for actual work that the athletes have to do IMO.. the law regulates what attorneys can get as a "reasonable fee", the sport needs some regulations or it will eventually be permanently ruined (if it isnt already)
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Old 09-09-2022, 10:42 PM   #57
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

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In addition to correcting the portal/transferring, they still need to cap NIL somehow and/or make it where it's at least for actual work that the athletes have to do IMO.. the law regulates what attorneys can get as a "reasonable fee", the sport needs some regulations or it will eventually be permanently ruined (if it isnt already)
Your job cap your earnings like that? Lol.
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Old 09-09-2022, 11:22 PM   #58
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

The pro leagues have caps for young players. And athletes have to commit to play for those teams for a specified length of time. And they can be traded to another team at any point in that first contract and they have no recourse. That's who comparisons should be made to, not Joe Average Fan who's busting his butt to provide for his family.

in many ways, college players--especially the highest rated ones--have more freedom than professional athletes do early in their careers. It's a different sport, but Quinn Ewers got a couple of million (I don't know exactly how much, maybe it was more) and couldn't come even close to cracking the lineup at Ohio State and zoom--he's off to texas for another payday (which, fingers crossed, he will earn the very hard way tomorrow against Bama). If a pro player could do that, fans would howl in protest. But college fans are supposed to just grin and bear it as sea change after sea change washes over the sports they love.

I have no problem with the players making some dough, but to compare a college student who has ALL of his needs taken care of, with an education worth tens of thousands of dollars thrown in for good measure, to an adult who works for a living, who has to put food on the table and a roof over his or her family's heads, is apples and oranges. And yes, I'm aware some college students have kids and maybe a wife, but they are the exception.
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Old 09-10-2022, 06:40 AM   #59
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Your job cap your earnings like that? Lol.
More times than not, I agree with you Coach...but you are not making anything close to an apples-apples comparison here. I believe there needs to be some competitive balance with college sports for a lot of the reasons already mentioned.
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Old 09-10-2022, 08:52 AM   #60
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Your job cap your earnings like that? Lol.
This is still amateur athletics. The goal wasn't supposed to be paying for players. It was supposed to be the players getting some of the money back that they are earning for the universities. That isn't what is going on currently. Honestly, the best way to regulate this may be to have the schools be the ones paying. They are the ones making money off the players, why aren't THEY the ones passing that income on to the players? That would regulate the amounts to a much higher degree, but most of the schools don't have athletic departments that are flush with cash.

What a foolish comment this was though. Not even close to apples to apples.
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Old 09-10-2022, 09:05 AM   #61
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I'm usually against things that mostly benefit the elite and against things that provide an unlevel playing field.

This thing is the best recruiting thing for the athletic elite schools ever enacted. And will benefit mostly football and basketball players in the mens sports.

The intentions of those who enacted this were honorable, but as usual in their attempts at nobility they did not consider the negative side of things.

If you don't believe me tell me the next time you see a fan wearing a Liz Scott or Savannah Davison jersey. Or if you even see them where athletic jerseys are sold.

Or how about Cameron Guild, Co-Athletic Scholar of the year. She works just as hard at her sport as the elite football player.

And the other thing the politicians who thought this was a brilliant idea as usual thinks the money that goes to mostly elite players will come out of thin air. No, it will come from the athletic department income that could be used to do things to benefit all athletes. Or from donors, that money could be better used to benefit the entire department rather than to enhance their schools recruiting efforts.
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Old 09-10-2022, 09:07 AM   #62
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I understand the fairness angle but those who benefit are likely to be on full scholarship and have enhanced pro and business prospects. I doubt is there is a good solution to the schools athletic departments making money because of their student's fame.

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Old 09-12-2022, 08:11 AM   #63
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

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I'm usually against things that mostly benefit the elite and against things that provide an unlevel playing field.

This thing is the best recruiting thing for the athletic elite schools ever enacted. And will benefit mostly football and basketball players in the mens sports.

The intentions of those who enacted this were honorable, but as usual in their attempts at nobility they did not consider the negative side of things.

If you don't believe me tell me the next time you see a fan wearing a Liz Scott or Savannah Davison jersey. Or if you even see them where athletic jerseys are sold.

Or how about Cameron Guild, Co-Athletic Scholar of the year. She works just as hard at her sport as the elite football player.

And the other thing the politicians who thought this was a brilliant idea as usual thinks the money that goes to mostly elite players will come out of thin air. No, it will come from the athletic department income that could be used to do things to benefit all athletes. Or from donors, that money could be better used to benefit the entire department rather than to enhance their schools recruiting efforts.
Many of the most highly compensated NIL athletes are females, some of whom aren't even great players. Players who have a massive social media following do quite well, so it isn't nearly as simple as saying that the best-known football and men's basketball players will be the only ones cashing in.
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Old 09-12-2022, 09:35 AM   #64
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

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Your job cap your earnings like that? Lol.
my "job" isn't amateur athletics
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Old 09-12-2022, 11:24 AM   #65
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The pro leagues have caps for young players. And athletes have to commit to play for those teams for a specified length of time. And they can be traded to another team at any point in that first contract and they have no recourse. That's who comparisons should be made to, not Joe Average Fan who's busting his butt to provide for his family.

in many ways, college players--especially the highest rated ones--have more freedom than professional athletes do early in their careers. It's a different sport, but Quinn Ewers got a couple of million (I don't know exactly how much, maybe it was more) and couldn't come even close to cracking the lineup at Ohio State and zoom--he's off to texas for another payday (which, fingers crossed, he will earn the very hard way tomorrow against Bama). If a pro player could do that, fans would howl in protest. But college fans are supposed to just grin and bear it as sea change after sea change washes over the sports they love.

I have no problem with the players making some dough, but to compare a college student who has ALL of his needs taken care of, with an education worth tens of thousands of dollars thrown in for good measure, to an adult who works for a living, who has to put food on the table and a roof over his or her family's heads, is apples and oranges. And yes, I'm aware some college students have kids and maybe a wife, but they are the exception.
the pro leagues have unions and CBA's and cap salary ...

those leagues do not cap endorsements ...

and that is what we are talking about here ..

"fair market value" is by definition what ever someone will pay ..
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Old 09-12-2022, 11:25 AM   #66
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my "job" isn't amateur athletics
once you have NIL at all .. there can't be a cap .... period ..
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Old 09-12-2022, 11:48 AM   #67
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An obvious priority to get them established for all Sooner sports. If you can't beat them, join them.

Obviously I am not well informed how the system works.
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Old 09-12-2022, 12:53 PM   #68
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"fair market value" is by definition what ever someone will pay ..
but it really isn't. we've gone down this road. The definition isn't that simple. Just because one person will pay it, doesn't make it market value
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Old 09-12-2022, 12:55 PM   #69
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once you have NIL at all .. there can't be a cap .... period ..
Right now, you are correct.
But that will change
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Old 09-12-2022, 02:02 PM   #70
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but it really isn't. we've gone down this road. The definition isn't that simple. Just because one person will pay it, doesn't make it market value
actually it is
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Old 09-12-2022, 03:49 PM   #71
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actually it is
OK boss.

What the highest bidder will pay is not the market value. Can it be? Yes. But it isn't in many cases. And all it takes is a google search and 5 minutes of research to see this.

For example, say a group of people are at an auction for a house. Bidding is going on and the home is appraised at $500k. There are 2 people left bidding and it is getting to that appraised value. One of the bidders, tired of the back and forth, puts in a bid of $750k and wins the house. Is the market value for that house $750k? No.

Go google "definition of market value" and you may be surprised what you find
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Old 09-12-2022, 07:32 PM   #72
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my "job" isn't amateur athletics
Major NCAA sports are no longer amateur.
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Old 09-12-2022, 08:57 PM   #73
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Not trying to be argumentative or get in the middle of anything, but in your scenario if $750k is the price where only 1 bidder is left, then yes, that is the market value for that property at that point in time. This is true by google's definition, too. That doesn't mean the market value will stay the same over time, though, which is the point you were making, as I understood it.
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Old 09-13-2022, 06:55 AM   #74
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Not trying to be argumentative or get in the middle of anything, but in your scenario if $750k is the price where only 1 bidder is left, then yes, that is the market value for that property at that point in time. This is true by google's definition, too. That doesn't mean the market value will stay the same over time, though, which is the point you were making, as I understood it.
That 750k would be value for that house. But appraisers would consider that an outlier and not include in what is considered fair market value calculation. If they did not consider it an outlier, every-time someone overplayed for a house, everyone’s property taxes would go up.

And in all honesty. The tax value for that house would not be 750k. It would be closer to the appraised value.
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Old 09-13-2022, 07:53 AM   #75
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Default Re: Joe Bam gets his waiver

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OK boss.

What the highest bidder will pay is not the market value. Can it be? Yes. But it isn't in many cases. And all it takes is a google search and 5 minutes of research to see this.

For example, say a group of people are at an auction for a house. Bidding is going on and the home is appraised at $500k. There are 2 people left bidding and it is getting to that appraised value. One of the bidders, tired of the back and forth, puts in a bid of $750k and wins the house. Is the market value for that house $750k? No.

Go google "definition of market value" and you may be surprised what you find
house appraisal is not Market value ... see the last 3 years were most housing sales have been over appraised value in the hot areas ..
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