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Old 01-07-2021, 03:14 PM   #1
Price is Right
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Default Sophomore Class

I think I speak for a lot of us when I say I was ecstatic about this class. One of the better ones we have had on paper in a long time. On the court however I've been super underwhelmed.. I'm as big a sunshine pumper as you'll find and I'm always feeling like our big break is just around the corner but... Talking with some friends last night I realized that for the first time in a long time I'm not optimistic about our future. What is going on with the program in terms of developing these guys?? Is it on Kruger? Are the guys just not buying in? Were a lot of them simply overated?

I highlight the Sophmore class specifically but it's something I feel about all of our classes recently.

I love Kruger and what he has done for our program. I still think he is a great coach who could have success somewhere. I also think it's time for a change.

Curious what some of you think?
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Old 01-07-2021, 03:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

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The time for a change was 2 years ago.
Joe C.is not going to do anything,just look at what has transpired with the Womens Basketball Team.I respect Joe C but most AD's would have taken action years ago!!
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Old 01-07-2021, 04:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

Iíve been thinking about this a lot lately in regards to OU Basketball... and then a few days ago while listening to Chris Plank talk about Texas football, I had an epiphany... perhaps this is who we are as OU Basketball...1. a middle to high Big 12 team, 2. tourney bound 95% of the time; 3. win a game or 2 in the tourney about 50% of the time; and are final 4 bound every 10-12 years or so... I mean I hear OU Football fans tell Texas and OSU fans to just accept that this is who you are all the time... maybe we should just accept it... LK has done great things at OU, and while I hope for a bit more in that 3rd category listed above (need to reach sweet 16 more often than LK has)... overall, we are not, nor will we ever be elite on a consistent basis...
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Old 01-07-2021, 05:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

I agree. I love Lon and what he did to correct the mess from capel, but itís time for him to retire. Every season we are the same. No improvement. Late season collapse. Weíre just not good enough and weíre showing no signs of getting any better. Recruiting is below average. Even when we sign guys that have potential to be really good, they never develop into anything special.

OU admin doesnít care about the basketball program. Itís a nuisance to them. Lon could coach another 10 years and not make the tourney and nothing would change. They simply donít care.
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Old 01-07-2021, 05:48 PM   #5
inoref
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

I agree, admin doesn't care much about the men basketball and even less about the ladies.
They wouldn't care so much abut the football program long as tickets are sold.
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:24 PM   #6
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We're not "middle to high". We are solidly middle. And if Smart ever figures out how to coach, we are going to be middle to low.
I would say that in Lonís tenure weíve had enough of us being in the top 2 tiers of the big 12 to classify us there... but yea, currently weíre ďmiddle of the packĒ.
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:47 PM   #7
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I agree. I love Lon and what he did to correct the mess from capel, but itís time for him to retire. Every season we are the same. No improvement. Late season collapse. Weíre just not good enough and weíre showing no signs of getting any better. Recruiting is below average. Even when we sign guys that have potential to be really good, they never develop into anything special.

OU admin doesnít care about the basketball program. Itís a nuisance to them. Lon could coach another 10 years and not make the tourney and nothing would change. They simply donít care.
Well, Joe fired Capel after two awful seasons once Blake left, so to suggest he would suffer through a decade without making the tourney seems far fetched. But it also seems silly to suggest such a scenario even as a hypothetical, since Lonís current longest streak of missing the tournament at OU is one (1) year.

I donít like in Oklahoma and Iím sure that there is a lot I donít know regarding the athletic administration, but I am always surprised how much heat Joe C gets on the board. When you look at the overall strength of an athletic department, there are only a handful that wouldnít be thrilled to trade places with OU. Not saying anyone is wrong or not entitled to their opinion on specific issues, but just find it interesting.
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Old 01-08-2021, 07:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

what a tired thread ...
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:30 AM   #9
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what a tired thread ...
people are tired of mediocrity
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:44 AM   #10
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people are tired of mediocrity
Beyond
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:43 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

finishing 3rd in the big 12 is not that

making the dance every year is not that ..
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:46 PM   #12
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This thread is all too typical of the reaction we have seen before following a loss by an undeniable margin. It’s not like a 15 point beat down by the #2 ranked team in the country was unexpected. I actually thought it would be worse, and I’ll bet most of you did too.

Does that mean I’m happy when we lose, or that I’m 100% onboard with the direction of our basketball program? Of course not. I wanted to believe the current class of players would be better. The recruits we signed received a lot of praise, and to be honest I might have contributed to the hype. Now we know, our seven foot center and our sharp shooter from the wing are among a growing list of projects who aren’t ready to contribute this season.

There are also reasons to be optimistic. This team is not totally void of talent. I think it could be argued that some of our best players are underclassmen. One thing seems to be certain, our second unit plays better defense than our first unit. They bring a special brand of energy, hustle and determination to the floor we don’t always see with our starters. I’m encouraged by what I see.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that it could be worse. And, that’s certainly possible on Saturday when we play the Jayhawks in Lawrence. If we lose our next three games to TCU, OSU and K-State, that may be the time to start thinking about throwing in the towel.

I’m not there yet!
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Old 01-08-2021, 01:11 PM   #13
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So you're happy with beating the bottom feeders. And you "couldn't be more proud" of how we didn't get slaughtered by WV.
Your bar is extremely low.
If thatís all you got from what I said, your intellect is extremely low!
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

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Originally Posted by AdaSooner View Post
This thread is all too typical of the reaction we have seen before following a loss by an undeniable margin. It’s not like a 15 point beat down by the #2 ranked team in the country was unexpected. I actually thought it would be worse, and I’ll bet most of you did too.

Does that mean I’m happy when we lose, or that I’m 100% onboard with the direction of our basketball program? Of course not. I wanted to believe the current class of players would be better. The recruits we signed received a lot of praise, and to be honest I might have contributed to the hype. Now we know, our seven foot center and our sharp shooter from the wing are among a growing list of projects who aren’t ready to contribute this season.

There are also reasons to be optimistic. This team is not totally void of talent. I think it could be argued that some of our best players are underclassmen. One thing seems to be certain, our second unit plays better defense than our first unit. They bring a special brand of energy, hustle and determination to the floor we don’t always see with our starters. I’m encouraged by what I see.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that it could be worse. And, that’s certainly possible on Saturday when we play the Jayhawks in Lawrence. If we lose our next three games to TCU, OSU and K-State, that may be the time to start thinking about throwing in the towel.

I’m not there yet!
I see what you're saying, and agree to some extent.

But would you agree also that the lack of development, especially since Henson and Hill left, has been pretty evident?

It feels, to me, that a lot more players come in and show a lot of promise their Freshman year, then never seem to make the strides they need to become a really dependable basketball player.

I mean take out Hield, Cousins, and Spangler, and the lack of development becomes even MORE evident. However, I don't put a lot of stock into anything before them, but that 2016 team really should've been a launching point for OU to really make the gains in recruiting and become the really respectable program we all feel it can be. That just hasn't seemed to happen.

But really you can go down the list of players, starting with those Freshman and Sophomores on that 2016 team, and the development just hasn't been there

And now we're 5 season passed that. It feels like at least a few should have been developed or be developing more.
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
finishing 3rd in the big 12 is not that

making the dance every year is not that ..
tied for third with 3 other teams.

I'm not usually doom and gloom. I'm just tired of the normalizing of being average.

Let's be honest....we have been lucky getting into the tourney several times. We got in with a 7-11 conference record. The year before that it was 8-10. If we want to be honest, it isn't far fetched to say we should have missed the tourney 3 years in a row.

And yes, we were 3rd last year. what about before that?

7
9
9

Trae young aint walking through that door again. We've fallen far enough that even legit nba in state talent won't pick us.

Kruger did what he was supposed to. It is time to move on. the program is stale
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:26 PM   #16
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And this isn't just coming because we lost to the #2 team.
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:38 PM   #17
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tied for third with 3 other teams.

I'm not usually doom and gloom. I'm just tired of the normalizing of being average.

Let's be honest....we have been lucky getting into the tourney several times. We got in with a 7-11 conference record. The year before that it was 8-10. If we want to be honest, it isn't far fetched to say we should have missed the tourney 3 years in a row.

And yes, we were 3rd last year. what about before that?

7
9
9

Trae young aint walking through that door again. We've fallen far enough that even legit nba in state talent won't pick us.

Kruger did what he was supposed to. It is time to move on. the program is stale
In what way were we lucky? We were one of the best 36 at large teams each of those years. Thatís the only criteria that the committee uses. When the committee evaluates OU, it isnít in a vacuum. If there arenít 36 teams with better resumes, we get a bid.

It is perfectly fair to argue that we should expect more than being a 9 through 11 seed. But saying we got lucky to make it is just wrong. Who were the specific teams that should have made it over us?
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Old 01-08-2021, 04:22 PM   #18
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tied for third with 3 other teams.
When the Sooners end up with, say, the sixth seed in the Big 12 (but tie for a higher spot in the conference standings), many posters insist we finished sixth, period. Any mention of the tie gets mocked.

But when we earn the third seed in the Big 12 tourney (ahead of teams we keep hearing have left us in their dust, like Tech, WVA and texas), suddenly the fact that we were tied in the standings is all that matters; those same posters refuse to give the team credit for earning the higher seed.

You'd almost think some posters are inclined always to take a negative view of the team. But surely not.
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Old 01-08-2021, 04:37 PM   #19
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I see what you're saying, and agree to some extent.

But would you agree also that the lack of development, especially since Henson and Hill left, has been pretty evident?

It feels, to me, that a lot more players come in and show a lot of promise their Freshman year, then never seem to make the strides they need to become a really dependable basketball player.

I mean take out Hield, Cousins, and Spangler, and the lack of development becomes even MORE evident. However, I don't put a lot of stock into anything before them, but that 2016 team really should've been a launching point for OU to really make the gains in recruiting and become the really respectable program we all feel it can be. That just hasn't seemed to happen.

But really you can go down the list of players, starting with those Freshman and Sophomores on that 2016 team, and the development just hasn't been there

And now we're 5 season passed that. It feels like at least a few should have been developed or be developing more.
I may have had more to say regarding the lack of player development than anyone on this board. It was a common theme with me two years ago. Like you, I was very unhappy that we blew our chance to take advantage of a Final Four run.

I couldnít agree more that the decline in developing players and in recruiting began not long after Henson and Hillís departure. I decided to give it a rest last season when recruiting (another favorite topic of mine) seemed to be getting better.

I have also seen signs that players like Kur, Harmon, Victor and Hill are improving. Not fast enough for impatient fans like me, but improving nevertheless.

That said, Iím not going to allow myself to get all bent out of shape when we lose to a team as good as Baylor. It was obvious our players were overmatched, but they didnít give up. If we get thumped by teams we should beat, or if our players throw up their hands and quit on Lon, Iíll be back on my soapbox again. For now, Iím going to cheer them on and do my best to enjoy the ride.
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Old 01-08-2021, 05:58 PM   #20
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I have no problem with us getting beat handily by a great Baylor team fellas.. some of you have implied my question/initial post in regards to development is tied specifically to one game. But cmon guys??? Throw the Baylor game out if that helps. Are we all saying we are happy with the player development going on? Even if we had won that game. The point is guys don't seem to be improving as much as I would've hoped or thought over the past few years.. I've loved this team through plenty of good as well as bad but when I see guys year after year who don't seem to reach their potential it opens the door for questions as to why. A question no one has really taken a stab at answering yet either. I was truly hoping some basketball minds on here could give some insight into their opinions why.
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: Sophomore Class

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Originally Posted by AdaSooner View Post
This thread is all too typical of the reaction we have seen before following a loss by an undeniable margin. Itís not like a 15 point beat down by the #2 ranked team in the country was unexpected. I actually thought it would be worse, and Iíll bet most of you did too.

Does that mean Iím happy when we lose, or that Iím 100% onboard with the direction of our basketball program? Of course not. I wanted to believe the current class of players would be better. The recruits we signed received a lot of praise, and to be honest I might have contributed to the hype. Now we know, our seven foot center and our sharp shooter from the wing are among a growing list of projects who arenít ready to contribute this season.

There are also reasons to be optimistic. This team is not totally void of talent. I think it could be argued that some of our best players are underclassmen. One thing seems to be certain, our second unit plays better defense than our first unit. They bring a special brand of energy, hustle and determination to the floor we donít always see with our starters. Iím encouraged by what I see.

I guess what Iím trying to say is that it could be worse. And, thatís certainly possible on Saturday when we play the Jayhawks in Lawrence. If we lose our next three games to TCU, OSU and K-State, that may be the time to start thinking about throwing in the towel.

Iím not there yet!
pretty much agree....I like LK...sure he's a great guy. I actually worked in Manhattan while he coached there and his kids went to the school I worked at. His wife is a great lady and was not precocious at all, she vol at the school all the time.

With that said...I also am ready for a change. OU once held the nation's longest post-season streak...we CAN be a top 30 every year program...getting top 15 every now and then.
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:46 PM   #22
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Ada....who was the outside sharp shooter that we have?
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:00 PM   #23
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Ada....who was the outside sharp shooter that we have?
Anyang Garang. Remember what we were told about his ability to shoot from three? I canít recall who posted it, but more than one source claimed he could really shoot from the perimeter.

Maybe he can. We just havenít seen it yet.
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Old 01-09-2021, 08:31 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by skyvue View Post
When the Sooners end up with, say, the sixth seed in the Big 12 (but tie for a higher spot in the conference standings), many posters insist we finished sixth, period. Any mention of the tie gets mocked.

But when we earn the third seed in the Big 12 tourney (ahead of teams we keep hearing have left us in their dust, like Tech, WVA and texas), suddenly the fact that we were tied in the standings is all that matters; those same posters refuse to give the team credit for earning the higher seed.

You'd almost think some posters are inclined always to take a negative view of the team. But surely not.
Ding ding ding we have a winner.
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Old 01-09-2021, 08:32 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13 View Post
tied for third with 3 other teams.

I'm not usually doom and gloom. I'm just tired of the normalizing of being average.

Let's be honest....we have been lucky getting into the tourney several times. We got in with a 7-11 conference record. The year before that it was 8-10. If we want to be honest, it isn't far fetched to say we should have missed the tourney 3 years in a row.

And yes, we were 3rd last year. what about before that?

7
9
9

Trae young aint walking through that door again. We've fallen far enough that even legit nba in state talent won't pick us.

Kruger did what he was supposed to. It is time to move on. the program is stale
OU wasnít ďluckyĒ to make the dance any of those years. OU was solidly in.
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