We’re a lot better defensively w/out Manek

lexusooner · 01-12-2021, 09:06 PM

He’s a great Sooner and he’s got a heck of a shot but he’s always been a liability on defense ...,
We played the two best defensive games we’ve played in a long time back to back .... thoughts??

skyvue · 01-12-2021, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexusooner

He’s a great Sooner and he’s got a heck of a shot but he’s always been a liability on defense ...,
We played the two best defensive games we’ve played in a long time back to back in a long time .... thoughts??

Teams often step up the intensity when a teammate is out. Let's see how they do when Manek returns (and is back to 100%, if he's ailing). They may not miss a step.

stormspencer · 01-12-2021, 10:03 PM

In the last two games, our adjusted defensive efficiency rating has improved from #74 to #51 according to Kenpom. For metrics/stats nerds like me, that is mind blowing.

mict085 · 01-12-2021, 10:07 PM

Absolutely we’re a Better defensive team without manek. No question really.

pnkranger · 01-12-2021, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormspencer

In the last two games, our adjusted defensive efficiency rating has improved from #74 to #51 according to Kenpom. For metrics/stats nerds like me, that is mind blowing.

Especially 11 games into the season.

BCSooners · 01-12-2021, 11:41 PM

Definitely better defensively & rebounding. He does space the floor out though. I remember not long ago someone said he was an NBA player who could guard TJ Leaf.

oudna · 01-13-2021, 02:08 AM

just a wildly inconsistent player, for a veteran

when he's shooting well he's valuable

AdaSooner · 01-13-2021, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oudna

just a wildly inconsistent player, for a veteran

when he's shooting well he's valuable

When he’s not he a liability.

Maverick008 · 01-13-2021, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexusooner

He’s a great Sooner and he’s got a heck of a shot but he’s always been a liability on defense ...,
We played the two best defensive games we’ve played in a long time back to back .... thoughts??

Honestly, what I hope is that this is a wake up call to Manek that offense isn’t going to be enough to keep him on the floor all the time anymore. IMO it’s his effort on a consistent basis that hurts him on the defensive end. I think at this point he understands how the game works but it’s been a while since he’s had that guy pushing for playing time behind him. This team has shown they have what it takes to be competitive and win games without his offense and even Lon started to show a game or two before Manek went out that in the middle and even near the end of games that Manek will be on the bench for better defensive options. IF he would play hard consistently on both ends (see the WV game) he could help this team more than hurt it on both ends. The problem with this, is at this point in his career, it’s sometimes hard for a player to swallow that they need to start playing harder all the time....some players have too big of an ego to change what they are doing at this point and they just fade off into the sunset. Lets hope he chooses to play harder to stay on the court and help this team continue to take the next step.

Sooner04 · 01-13-2021, 10:36 AM

Shockingly better.

And it continues a trend I alluded to last year. Why in the world would a senior be that much of a drain on one end of the floor......sometimes BOTH? How do you rally behind someone who is making you that much worse?

scrybe · 01-13-2021, 11:10 AM

There's some truth in what's being stated here. But against quality opponents that are capable of scoring the basketball, OU is almost certainly better when Brady Manek is on the floor and not the bench.

BoulderSooner · 01-13-2021, 11:52 AM

i don't think it is maneks effort at all ... he just has slow feet ... he would have been helpful against KU

i will say Manek is much better on D at the 5 then at the 4

on the other end Hill is a very good defensive player ..

BoulderSooner · 01-13-2021, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooner04

Shockingly better.

And it continues a trend I alluded to last year. Why in the world would a senior be that much of a drain on one end of the floor......sometimes BOTH? How do you rally behind someone who is making you that much worse?

adv stats really like manek

Maverick008 · 01-13-2021, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

i don't think it is maneks effort at all ... he just has slow feet ... he would have been helpful against KU

i will say Manek is much better on D at the 5 then at the 4

on the other end Hill is a very good defensive player ..

We will have to agree to disagree. I guess I could change the word to “lazy”? There are many times he loafs around the court or refuses to give the guy enough credit to make a shot to attempt to go out and cover the guy. All of this is my opinion of course but it’s what I see most of the time from Manek on the defensive end. I also disagree about the “better at the 5 on D”. He’s not strong enough to handle guys in the post on most nights. OU doesn’t really have a guy that is but Kur can make up some of that with length and the ability to block shots. Manek doesn’t really have the ability or the length to cover up the short comings of just not being strong enough. If we are saying he covers the 5 better because that guy won’t step out and hit a 3, then we agree

BCSooners · 01-13-2021, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

i don't think it is maneks effort at all ... he just has slow feet ... he would have been helpful against KU

i will say Manek is much better on D at the 5 then at the 4

on the other end Hill is a very good defensive player ..

Yes, definitely better at guarding the 5, which is what he got to do last year. This year when other teams go 4 guards either Manek or Kur comes off or you pray they miss 3s. He's too slow & doesn't work hard enough consistently to make up for it on the perimeter.

AdaSooner · 01-13-2021, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrybe

There's some truth in what's being stated here. But against quality opponents that are capable of scoring the basketball, OU is almost certainly better when Brady Manek is on the floor and not the bench.

OU is unquestionably better when Brady is making shots. We miss his ability to score when he’s not on the floor.

HOWEVER! When he’s not making shots, he tends to get down on himself and every part of his game seems to suffer. It’s not that Brady can’t rebound or play defense. Case in point, the back to back offensive rebounds he got in the final seconds to help us hang on and best WVU. The last time I saw an OU player do that, Ryan Spangler was on our roster.

So, it’s not like Brady can’t play better or harder. For reasons only he understands, he goes into a shell and takes plays off, almost always on defense. Maverick008 said it well: “There are many times he loafs around the court or refuses to give the guy enough credit to make a shot to attempt to go out and cover the guy.”

I, too, have been frustrated watching him coast on defense and give up a wide open three or a layup. If it frustrates me, how do you think his teammates feel?

BoulderSooner · 01-13-2021, 02:39 PM

Manek is also a very underrated shot blocker ..

steverocks35 · 01-13-2021, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

Manek is also a very underrated shot blocker ..

Come on now. He's averaging 1 block per game which isn't a lot for a 4 playing as many minutes as he plays.

Soonerinkc · 01-13-2021, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdaSooner

When he’s not he a liability.

Yup

Soonerinkc · 01-13-2021, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdaSooner

OU is unquestionably better when Brady is making shots. We miss his ability to score when he’s not on the floor.

HOWEVER! When he’s not making shots, he tends to get down on himself and every part of his game seems to suffer. It’s not that Brady can’t rebound or play defense. Case in point, the back to back offensive rebounds he got in the final seconds to help us hang on and best WVU. The last time I saw an OU player do that, Ryan Spangler was on our roster.

So, it’s not like Brady can’t play better or harder. For reasons only he understands, he goes into a shell and takes plays off, almost always on defense. Maverick008 said it well: “There are many times he loafs around the court or refuses to give the guy enough credit to make a shot to attempt to go out and cover the guy.”

I, too, have been frustrated watching him coast on defense and give up a wide open three or a layup. If it frustrates me, how do you think his teammates feel?

Yup on this one as well..

Soonerinkc · 01-13-2021, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick008

Honestly, what I hope is that this is a wake up call to Manek that offense isn’t going to be enough to keep him on the floor all the time anymore. IMO it’s his effort on a consistent basis that hurts him on the defensive end. I think at this point he understands how the game works but it’s been a while since he’s had that guy pushing for playing time behind him. This team has shown they have what it takes to be competitive and win games without his offense and even Lon started to show a game or two before Manek went out that in the middle and even near the end of games that Manek will be on the bench for better defensive options. IF he would play hard consistently on both ends (see the WV game) he could help this team more than hurt it on both ends. The problem with this, is at this point in his career, it’s sometimes hard for a player to swallow that they need to start playing harder all the time....some players have too big of an ego to change what they are doing at this point and they just fade off into the sunset. Lets hope he chooses to play harder to stay on the court and help this team continue to take the next step.

Lon isn’t benching him after he’s ready to return... there is one thing Lon is and that’s loyal to a fault sometimes

WichitaSooner · 01-13-2021, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soonerinkc

Lon isn’t benching him after he’s ready to return... there is one thing Lon is and that’s loyal to a fault sometimes

Lon adjusts minutes and rotations frequently depending on how guys are playing. Of course he isn’t going to glue Brady to the bench for 40 minutes a night, but he already sat him down the stretch in a tight game against Tech. If he keeps playing poorly when he returns, the minutes will be down. Maybe not as much as some of us would like, but they will be down.

My hope is that if/when we are back to full strength, the team as a whole doesn’t lose the defensive focus they’ve shown the past two games. As for Manek, he needs to become a tougher, more consistent competitor at both ends of the floor. Seniors shouldn’t let their shooting affect their overall game.

lexusooner · 01-13-2021, 07:02 PM

If Brady doesn’t turn up the heat on the defensive end and put more effort into rebounding he’s a liability to the team.
The team has been tough to score on without him in the line-up.

If he sees what the rest of the world sees it may inspire him to be a more productive defender/rebounder

skyvue · 01-14-2021, 09:56 AM

Brady currently is averaging 4.4 rebounds per game. How many should he be getting? (Serious question.)

pnkranger · 01-14-2021, 10:02 AM

Whoever said that this has everything to do with Kuath playing the 5 is 100% correct. Brady can guard the 5 spot consistently. He can't guard the more athletic power forward in the league.

He got worked over by Matthew Mayer, West Virginia's frontcourt gave him fits, he couldn't stop Santos-Silva ...Zach Freemantle for Xavier kicked his butt to the tune of a career-high 28 points.

Brady does not defend well in space. He does most everything else well on the basketball court, but that's a challenge for him.