Bijan > Goldwire

Seymore Cox · 11-21-2021, 05:38 PM

Goldwire is a 5 year career backup pg type that has shown that already here at OU. Plays hard and is unselfish, but limited and can’t shoot. Feel for the game is average at best. At what point do you increase Bijan’s playing time to develop him for the next 3 years? Bijan has great feel and the potential to be a better perimeter shooter.

He’s not great getting it defensively, but a lot of freshmen aren’t.

NYC-Fool · 11-21-2021, 08:14 PM

Right now OU needs someone to knock down a late game 3 when there is less than a minute to go. Goldwire had the chance and couldn’t get it to go down. Hopefully him or someone else can become that guy. I don’t think Bijan is ready yet.

Eielson · 11-21-2021, 08:56 PM

He started 15 games for a Duke team that was in the top 10-15 range.

allday92 · 11-21-2021, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymore Cox

Goldwire is a 5 year career backup pg type that has shown that already here at OU. Plays hard and is unselfish, but limited and can’t shoot. Feel for the game is average at best. At what point do you increase Bijan’s playing time to develop him for the next 3 years? Bijan has great feel and the potential to be a better perimeter shooter.

He’s not great getting it defensively, but a lot of freshmen aren’t.

+1. I'm with you here. It's tough to describe what he's missing, since he's a solid player, but he's just missing 'it.' He can stay as the starter, but Bijan needs to play a lot more, and maybe even close games.

And one more point I'll add, Goldwire isn't bad if his other backcourt mates can pick up for his deficiencies. Harkless is a shaky ballhandler/passer and Gibson hasn't shown he is a strong facilitator/run the offense type of guy. The starting backcourt is missing that type of player. Harkless brings the defense, Gibson brings the shooting, and Goldwire is just meh in everything.

Stikboy · 11-21-2021, 09:15 PM

Where does Mason fit into all this? It seems his minutes have been cut alot the past few games.

BCSooners · 11-21-2021, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allday92

+1. I'm with you here. It's tough to describe what he's missing, since he's a solid player, but he's just missing 'it.' He can stay as the starter, but Bijan needs to play a lot more, and maybe even close games.

And one more point I'll add, Goldwire isn't bad if his other backcourt mates can pick up for his deficiencies. Harkless is a shaky ballhandler/passer and Gibson hasn't shown he is a strong facilitator/run the offense type of guy. The starting backcourt is missing that type of player. Harkless brings the defense, Gibson brings the shooting, and Goldwire is just meh in everything.

Bijan is the best passer on the team & probably has better handles, but I think Goldwire is better at everything else. Had a bad game on offense but he’s very good defensively. He was much better than Harkless defensively today imo.

Seymore Cox · 11-22-2021, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allday92

+1. I'm with you here. It's tough to describe what he's missing, since he's a solid player, but he's just missing 'it.' He can stay as the starter, but Bijan needs to play a lot more, and maybe even close games.

And one more point I'll add, Goldwire isn't bad if his other backcourt mates can pick up for his deficiencies. Harkless is a shaky ballhandler/passer and Gibson hasn't shown he is a strong facilitator/run the offense type of guy. The starting backcourt is missing that type of player. Harkless brings the defense, Gibson brings the shooting, and Goldwire is just meh in everything.

Agree with all.

Seymore Cox · 11-22-2021, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stikboy

Where does Mason fit into all this? It seems his minutes have been cut alot the past few games.

He’s really an undersized 2 guard in my opinion. That and a freshman as well.

jaymOU · 11-22-2021, 08:43 AM

Goldwire had a great TO to assist ratio at Duke, but he has had way to many TOs in his four games as a Sooner. He has 20 assists and 13 turnovers, against what I would call mostly mediocre opponents. Last year at Duke he was 4-1 in assists to turnovers. I think he came to OU to show he could score more and that has forced him to be more aggressive and have some TO issues. I thought he would be more of a calming influence than he has been. His basketball IQ on some things - like taking that last corner 3 - is not as high as I would have expected. Bijan is not a starter at this time. Mason is not either, so I think it's going to be Goldwire for the foreseeable future.

WTSooner · 11-23-2021, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eielson

He started 15 games for a Duke team that was in the top 10-15 range.

He also started all season for a Duke team that was 13-11 last season.

He is the kind of player that if you surround him with really good talent, probably looks better than he is. But with the talent we have around him at OU, there are times he is going to look flat out bad. He is currently doing just enough on offense, but I fear that will change once the competition picks up.

There is a reason he wasn't going to be the starting PG at Duke this season.

allday92 · 11-23-2021, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTSooner

He also started all season for a Duke team that was 13-11 last season.

He is the kind of player that if you surround him with really good talent, probably looks better than he is. But with the talent we have around him at OU, there are times he is going to look flat out bad. He is currently doing just enough on offense, but I fear that will change once the competition picks up.

There is a reason he wasn't going to be the starting PG at Duke this season.

And to add, he wasn't a Duke level player to begin with. He was about to commit to Eastern Kentucky out of HS, and got a last minute offer from Duke, because Frank Jackson was an unexpected one and done.

https://247sports.com/Recruitment/Jo...ruitInterests/

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...tern-kentucky/

hoopsaustin · 11-24-2021, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allday92

And to add, he wasn't a Duke level player to begin with. He was about to commit to Eastern Kentucky out of HS, and got a last minute offer from Duke, because Frank Jackson was an unexpected one and done.

https://247sports.com/Recruitment/Jo...ruitInterests/

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...tern-kentucky/

I just noticed that he comes from, and i believe played for the same high school, as former 2007 OU signee, Tony Neysmith

pnkranger · 11-24-2021, 11:33 AM

This is hard for me to say because I love Elijah Harkless. But if Bijan replaced anyone in the starting lineup, it would not be Goldwire. Gold wire has been our best SG this yeAr … Harkless has been brutal

WichitaSooner · 11-24-2021, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnkranger

This is hard for me to say because I love Elijah Harkless. But if Bijan replaced anyone in the starting lineup, it would not be Goldwire. Gold wire has been our best SG this yeAr … Harkless has been brutal

Harkless has yet to show any improvement on the things that were obvious weaknesses last season. He is a poor shooter and ball handler, and that’s a bad combo for a guard. He plays extremely hard and absolutely is a useful player who helps his team win, but I have had the sense since early last season that because of that, some consider him beyond criticism on the board. I have more confidence in all of the other starters when it comes to making a perimeter shot … including the two bigs. If he isn’t going to be a real threat with his shot, he needs to at least improve his handles and decision making.

Soonerinkc · 11-24-2021, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

Harkless has yet to show any improvement on the things that were obvious weaknesses last season. He is a poor shooter and ball handler, and that’s a bad combo for a guard. He plays extremely hard and absolutely is a useful player who helps his team win, but I have had the sense since early last season that because of that, some consider him beyond criticism on the board. I have more confidence in all of the other starters when it comes to making a perimeter shot … including the two bigs. If he isn’t going to be a real threat with his shot, he needs to at least improve his handles and decision making.

I pointed this out last yr...love the guy's energy and defensive tenacity but he really couldn't handle the ball last yr at all...

AdaSooner · 11-24-2021, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

Harkless has yet to show any improvement on the things that were obvious weaknesses last season. He is a poor shooter and ball handler, and that’s a bad combo for a guard. He plays extremely hard and absolutely is a useful player who helps his team win, but I have had the sense since early last season that because of that, some consider him beyond criticism on the board. I have more confidence in all of the other starters when it comes to making a perimeter shot … including the two bigs. If he isn’t going to be a real threat with his shot, he needs to at least improve his handles and decision making.

As much as I hate to say it, Harkless has been a disappointment so far. Maybe it’s because my expectations were too high. He’s a decent rebounder at 4.6 rpg, but his 7 ppg average on 38% shooting from the field and 26% from three is not even close to what I expected from a senior with his on the court work ethic. Oddly enough, even his 43% shooting from the free throw line is an enigma.

Makes me wonder if he applied that same effort to improving his skills in the off season? Hopefully, he’s just going through a slump right now, and the real Elijah Harkless will show everyone what he can do before long!

Eielson · 11-25-2021, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allday92

And to add, he wasn't a Duke level player to begin with. He was about to commit to Eastern Kentucky out of HS, and got a last minute offer from Duke, because Frank Jackson was an unexpected one and done.

https://247sports.com/Recruitment/Jo...ruitInterests/

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...tern-kentucky/

True, bur he started double-digit games in back to back years for Coach K. That seems more relevant.

skyvue · 11-25-2021, 05:24 PM

Goldwire is currently our best +/- guy by a pretty wide margin over everyone but T-Groves. As I've said before, I'm not a big fan of that metric, but I seem to be in the minority in that regard, and him being top-rated seems to counter some of the characterizations of him in this thread. He had a solid game yesterday (well, second half--no one had a solid game).

AdaSooner · 11-25-2021, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyvue

Goldwire is currently our best +/- guy by a pretty wide margin over everyone but T-Groves. As I've said before, I'm not a big fan of that metric, but I seem to be in the minority in that regard, and him being top-rated seems to counter some of the characterizations of him in this thread. He had a solid game yesterday (well, second half--no one had a solid game).

If you’re in the minority, I’m right there with you!

The last time I checked 1+ 1 = 2.

Stikboy · 11-25-2021, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdaSooner

If you’re in the minority, I’m right there with you!

The last time I checked 1+ 1 = 2.

I like the stat but it doesn't account for minutes. So comparing Goldwire to another player(bench) who does well while on the floor but has significantly fewer minutes is a pointless task. If there could be some sort of average or an account for minutes played it would be more useful, to me.

BoulderSooner · 11-26-2021, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stikboy

I like the stat but it doesn't account for minutes. So comparing Goldwire to another player(bench) who does well while on the floor but has significantly fewer minutes is a pointless task. If there could be some sort of average or an account for minutes played it would be more useful, to me.

that stat would be RPM "real plus/minus" or BPM "Box PLus/Minus"

plus minus is in general not valuable for a single game but over a season it does tell a story ..

BoulderSooner · 11-26-2021, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

that stat would be RPM "real plus/minus" or BPM "Box PLus/Minus"

plus minus is in general not valuable for a single game but over a season it does tell a story ..

and if you look at BPM for this season so far it would tell you the goldwire has a high plus minus mostly because he has been on the floor with Hill and Tanner Groves ..

Jalen Hill 8.0
Tanner Groves 7.6
C.J. Noland 6.4
Bijan Cortes 4.4
Umoja Gibson 2.5
Elijah Harkless 2.5
Ethan Chargois 2.1
Jordan Goldwire 1.2
Jacob Groves -4.9
Alston Mason -8.3

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...homa/2022.html

Stikboy · 11-26-2021, 10:15 AM

Interesting...Thanks

CoachTalk · 11-26-2021, 10:24 AM

I can live with Goldwire not scoring a ton if other guys are making shots. If they are not, we need a play making guard like Bijan in there.

I wonder if Jacob is ready or not. Slow footed. Its not close Cj is the best guard off the bench and could start before long.

OULad · 11-26-2021, 11:02 PM

I think its crazy to say Bijan is better than Goldwire. I dont even this its particularly close.