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Old 05-13-2019, 07:13 AM   #26
thebigabd
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Default Re: Big 12 Basketball Standings Prediction - May 2019

That can't be true... the ACC was clearly the best league. Duke, UNC, Virginia Tech, Virginia, etc.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:29 AM   #27
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That can't be true... the ACC was clearly the best league. Duke, UNC, Virginia Tech, Virginia, etc.
The "etc." is where the ACC falls apart. About five teams at the bottom were absolute garbage. Again, those of us arguing the Big 12's strength aren't just stating a personal opinion. The conference rating systems are objective, analytic driven numbers. Of course people can disagree on whether the formula is accurate, but to act like there is no case to be made for the Big 12 is silly.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:15 AM   #28
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The league wasn’t even strong too to bottom. Osu and WVU were flat out bad and Texas and tcu were middling.

It was beyond question a down year for the league. Next year will be similar, because for the second straight year Kansas will not be the Kansas we are used to, and programs like isu, ou, Texas and osu are way down from their peaks.
That flat out bad OSU team handily beat the SEC champs.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:49 AM   #29
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That flat out bad OSU team handily beat the SEC champs.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a team that finished 12-20 was not bad because they pulled an upset?
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:34 AM   #30
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Are you seriously trying to argue that a team that finished 12-20 was not bad because they pulled an upset?
They pulled more than one upset. And one reason they were 12-20 was -- wait for it -- because they played in the nation's toughest conference.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:38 AM   #31
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Are you seriously trying to argue that a team that finished 12-20 was not bad because they pulled an upset?
I kinda chuckled...
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:44 AM   #32
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They pulled more than one upset. And one reason they were 12-20 was -- wait for it -- because they played in the nation's toughest conference.
They went 7-7 outside of conference play. They were a bad team. This isn't controversial, you are going to bat for a 20 loss team.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:11 PM   #33
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They went 7-7 outside of conference play. They were a bad team. This isn't controversial, you are going to bat for a 20 loss team.
Sperry is horribly crass, but he has the better logical position here.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: Big 12 Basketball Standings Prediction - May 2019

The worst team in the ACC (ND) gave OU everything they wanted before losing a close game on a neutral court, during the part of the season where OU was actually playing good ball.

That same ND team beat Purdue by 8 on a neutral court. The same Purdue team that lost a heart-breaker in the Elite 8 to eventual champ UVA.

OU also needed OT to beat the worst team in the Big 10. Again, during the part of the season where OU was playing their best ball.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:23 PM   #35
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Are you seriously trying to argue that a team that finished 12-20 was not bad because they pulled an upset?
I'm not trying to say they were a good team because they weren't. They wound up playing with 7 scholarship players(and 1 of them was a spare) so they pretty much battled hard every game but usually ran out of gas in the 2nd half and turned wins into losses. They did get run out of the gym 3 or 4 times though.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:35 PM   #36
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The worst team in the ACC (ND) gave OU everything they wanted before losing a close game on a neutral court, during the part of the season where OU was actually playing good ball.

That same ND team beat Purdue by 8 on a neutral court. The same Purdue team that lost a heart-breaker in the Elite 8 to eventual champ UVA.

OU also needed OT to beat the worst team in the Big 10. Again, during the part of the season where OU was playing their best ball.
Yes, because comparative scores are always reliable, as we've all learned over the years.

Vanderbilt, the worst team in the SEC, took Tennessee to OT and lost by just 5 points, but OU beat the Commodores by 31.

Isn't this a fun game, randomly cherry-picking scores and pretending they accurately reflect the quality of particular conferences?
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:37 PM   #37
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you are going to bat for a 20 loss team.
I'm not going to bat for them as a good team. I'm saying they were a better team than many of the lesser teams in the other power conferences, and the various ranking systems -- RPI, NET, etc. -- agree with me.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:43 PM   #38
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Yes, because comparative scores are always reliable, as we've all learned over the years.

Vanderbilt, the worst team in the SEC, took Tennessee to OT and lost by just 5 points, but OU beat them the Commodores by 31.

Isn't this a fun game, randomly cherry-picking scores and pretending they accurately reflect the quality of particular conferences?
Spot on. Also, ND wasn't even close to the worst team in the ACC, especially not on Dec. 4 when we played them. They lost a key player a week or so later to an ACL tear.

It does make me wonder -- do ACC fans work as hard as some of our posters to argue that their conference isn't good, or is that unique to fans of Big 12 teams. Lord knows SEC fans talk up their conference at every opportunity.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:51 PM   #39
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Yes, because comparative scores are always reliable, as we've all learned over the years.

Vanderbilt, the worst team in the SEC, took Tennessee to OT and lost by just 5 points, but OU beat the Commodores by 31.

Isn't this a fun game, randomly cherry-picking scores and pretending they accurately reflect the quality of particular conferences?
lmao

So when OU fans try to point out how back some teams are in other conferences, yet I can point out that they either gave OU everything they wanted, or beat OU, as a way of showing the bottom teams in other conferences really aren't any worse than the bottom teams in the Big 12, I'm cherry picking? Get out of here with that crap.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:21 PM   #40
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lmao

So when OU fans try to point out how back some teams are in other conferences, yet I can point out that they either gave OU everything they wanted, or beat OU, as a way of showing the bottom teams in other conferences really aren't any worse than the bottom teams in the Big 12, I'm cherry picking? Get out of here with that crap.
You bet it's cherry-picking and you know it. Also? You didn't name a lower-echelon team from another conference that beat OU. Why? There wasn't one, but it's typical and unsurprising that you tried to imply there was. OU suffered only one loss during non-conference play, and it was to Wisconsin, which finished fourth in the Big 10.

What's more, citing games in which OU didn't win by a wide enough margin to satisfy you is just pitiful. A win's a win, especially since both the games you were cited were played on not-quite-neutral sites (ND will always have many more fans at a game played in NYC than OU will, and the Northwestern game was played in Chicago).
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:24 PM   #41
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Default Re: Big 12 Basketball Standings Prediction - May 2019

I'm tired of having to repeat this over and over again.

https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/statu...48164521713664

Big 12 was Kenpom's #1 ranked conference for the 6th season in a row.

Big 12 was #1 according to Sagarin for the 5th straight year.
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaa...19/conference/

I'm not going to look up RPI again, but the Big 12 was #1 in RPI as well and I think that was for the 5th or 6th straight year.

If you have issues with that, then send your arguments to Ken Pomeroy, Jeff Sagarin, and the NCAA.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:31 PM   #42
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I'm tired of having to repeat this over and over again.

https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/statu...48164521713664

Big 12 was Kenpom's #1 ranked conference for the 6th season in a row.

Big 12 was #1 according to Sagarin for the 5th straight year.
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaa...19/conference/

I'm not going to look up RPI again, but the Big 12 was #1 in RPI as well and I think that was for the 5th or 6th straight year.

If you have issues with that, then send your arguments to Ken Pomeroy, Jeff Sagarin, and the NCAA.
But... but... we didn't beat Notre Dame badly enough to suit some of our fans!
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:49 PM   #43
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Default Re: Big 12 Basketball Standings Prediction - May 2019

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I'm tired of having to repeat this over and over again.

https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/statu...48164521713664

Big 12 was Kenpom's #1 ranked conference for the 6th season in a row.

Big 12 was #1 according to Sagarin for the 5th straight year.
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaa...19/conference/

I'm not going to look up RPI again, but the Big 12 was #1 in RPI as well and I think that was for the 5th or 6th straight year.

If you have issues with that, then send your arguments to Ken Pomeroy, Jeff Sagarin, and the NCAA.

And the Big 12 started doing better in these "rankings" about the time we dropped to 10 teams. Coincidence? Nope! The way those things calculate the Big 12 gets an advantage from being smaller (team-wise). Sorry some of you suck at math beyond basic addition.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:52 PM   #44
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You bet it's cherry-picking and you know it. Also? You didn't name a lower-echelon team from another conference that beat OU. Why? There wasn't one, but it's typical and unsurprising that you tried to imply there was. OU suffered only one loss during non-conference play, and it was to Wisconsin, which finished fourth in the Big 10.

What's more, citing games in which OU didn't win by a wide enough margin to satisfy you is just pitiful. A win's a win, especially since both the games you were cited were played on not-quite-neutral sites (ND will always have many more fans at a game played in NYC than OU will, and the Northwestern game was played in Chicago).
And you STILL don't get it. I'm not even trying to knock OU here. I just happen to be familiar with their (our) schedule. The point I'm making is that the bottom teams in the other conferences compete JUST fine with the bottom teams in the almighty Big 12 conference. Which is the entire argument some of you are trying to make, that the bottom teams in the Big 12 are SO MUCH stronger than the bottom teams in the other power conferences. I'm simply showing why I don't believe that to be true.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:57 PM   #45
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And the Big 12 started doing better in these "rankings" about the time we dropped to 10 teams. Coincidence? Nope! The way those things calculate the Big 12 gets an advantage from being smaller (team-wise). Sorry some of you suck at math beyond basic addition.
You don't benefit by being smaller. You benefit by being better with the teams you do have. We wouldn't have benefited if KU left the league, just like the league wouldn't benefit in the football rankings if OU left.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:45 PM   #46
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You don't benefit by being smaller.
As a whole, true, but it does make your "bottom (insert random number here)" better. It also makes your "top (insert random number here)" worse, so we're sentenced to an unending argument revolving around the two previous statements for all of eternity.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:53 PM   #47
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And the Big 12 started doing better in these "rankings" about the time we dropped to 10 teams. Coincidence? Nope! The way those things calculate the Big 12 gets an advantage from being smaller (team-wise). Sorry some of you suck at math beyond basic addition.
Funny considering I’ve called you out repeatedly for your lack of math skills.

Those rankings are based on an average so the number of teams doesn’t matter. What did matter is that four mediocre to bad programs left and one solid and mediocre programs was added.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:47 PM   #48
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Funny considering I’ve called you out repeatedly for your lack of math skills.

Those rankings are based on an average so the number of teams doesn’t matter. What did matter is that four mediocre to bad programs left and one solid and mediocre programs was added.
If you have 6 really good program 2 ok, and 2 bad and another has 7 really good, 3 ok, and 4 bad, which one will be higher on average? So yes only having 10 teams helps.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:57 AM   #49
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Funny considering I’ve called you out repeatedly for your lack of math skills.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:38 AM   #50
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If you have 6 really good program 2 ok, and 2 bad and another has 7 really good, 3 ok, and 4 bad, which one will be higher on average? So yes only having 10 teams helps.
LOL, so having less bad programs is better? You don’t say.
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