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Old 05-22-2019, 01:49 PM   #26
thebigabd
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Default Re: This team could be better than most people think

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Yeah, I don't care how good Doo is, he is massively out of position playing the 5. Pretty embarrassing actually, that he is far and away our best option there.
He's so good on offense though. He is the classic tweener... Too small for the paint, too big and lacking skill for the perimeter. Have to find ways to hide him while letting him operate on offense.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:51 PM   #27
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He's so good on offense though. He is the classic tweener... Too small for the paint, too big and lacking skill for the perimeter. Have to find ways to hide him while letting him operate on offense.
He's a 4 in today's game. Nearly a perfect fit as a 4. Wish she shot it from deep a bit better, but he's more than adequate out there for that position.

The problem is that is also where Manek belongs. Which means Doo has to play out of position.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: This team could be better than most people think

If your guards are good, big men really aren't very important. Our guards are a huge question mark, but they could be really damn good, in which case it's not going to matter what big men are out there (as long as they understand their role is to set screens, finish dunks, and generally get out of the way of the guards).
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:56 PM   #29
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If your guards are good, big men really aren't very important. Our guards are a huge question mark, but they could be really damn good, in which case it's not going to matter what big men are out there (as long as they understand their role is to set screens, finish dunks, and generally get out of the way of the guards).
Our bigs aren't a problem on offense, they are a problem on defense and rebounding. Neither Doo nor Manek are particularly good rebounders or defenders. Neither are rim protectors. That is a VERY important part of being a good team defense is having guys inside that can a) protect the rim, and b) rebound and end possessions for the opposing team.

I'm not saying we need a top 10 NBA pick in there, but we should have a better option than we've had recently, or will likely have this year.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:04 PM   #30
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Our bigs aren't a problem on offense, they are a problem on defense and rebounding. Neither Doo nor Manek are particularly good rebounders or defenders. Neither are rim protectors. That is a VERY important part of being a good team defense is having guys inside that can a) protect the rim, and b) rebound and end possessions for the opposing team.

I'm not saying we need a top 10 NBA pick in there, but we should have a better option than we've had recently, or will likely have this year.

Doolittle is fine on defense and as a rebounder. Manek is poor in both facets. They really shouldn't be on the floor together as they play the same position. Against a lot of teams we'll be able to get away with it as they won't have the bigs to punish us, but we will face a few matchups where they just need to have their minutes staggered.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:07 PM   #31
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Default Re: This team could be better than most people think

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Doolittle is fine on defense and as a rebounder. Manek is poor in both facets. They really shouldn't be on the floor together as they play the same position. Against a lot of teams we'll be able to get away with it as they won't have the bigs to punish us, but we will face a few matchups where they just need to have their minutes staggered.
Hard to stagger your best 2 players.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: This team could be better than most people think

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Our bigs aren't a problem on offense, they are a problem on defense and rebounding. Neither Doo nor Manek are particularly good rebounders or defenders. Neither are rim protectors. That is a VERY important part of being a good team defense is having guys inside that can a) protect the rim, and b) rebound and end possessions for the opposing team.

I'm not saying we need a top 10 NBA pick in there, but we should have a better option than we've had recently, or will likely have this year.
Doo isn't "particularly good" defensively. He is far better than that. Sadly, reality and evidence will never convince you otherwise. Blocking shots isn't the only way to be a good post defender.

Also, when we play guys who can protect the rim, then the masses complain that by going for blocked shots, they leave their man and make us vulnerable to offensive rebounds or easy dropoff passes. So short of finding a guy who does everything perfectly, people will never be happy.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:34 PM   #33
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Default Re: This team could be better than most people think

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Doolittle is fine on defense and as a rebounder. Manek is poor in both facets.
Doolittle averaged .25 rebounds per minute last season (7 per game). Manek averaged .21 rebounds per minute (6 per game).
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: This team could be better than most people think

Let's just get out of the mindset that we have a "5 Man" on the floor. Doolittle isn't a 5 and shouldn't be relied upon as a 5, but here we are.....with no better option. Our Starting lineup is G/G/G/F/F. Assuming we can get an adequate PF/C, after the first 5 minutes of the game Doo and Maneks minutes will stagger after that against bigger teams. First sub in will likely replace one of them most of the time.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:37 PM   #35
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Manek and Doo were the strength of our team last year. I'm baffled that so many keep acting like they're our biggest weakness. If they're our weakness, then we're in for quite a ride next year.

Coming into last year, I would understand the concern from them not being "big" or "tough" enough, but we just watched them do it for a whole season. It's like people don't trust their own eyes.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:44 PM   #36
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We were 184th in the country last year in rebounding margin. So let's stop, right now, acting like we were a good, solid, or even remotely adequate rebounding team. We were not.

And we were that bad while being pretty solid on defense, which typically creates more defensive rebounding opportunities.

Not a good stat. Shows our lack of rebounding and lack of toughness (which carries over to other areas of the game) last year.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketbal...rrent/team/151
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: This team could be better than most people think

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Manek and Doo were the strength of our team last year. I'm baffled that so many keep acting like they're our biggest weakness. If they're our weakness, then we're in for quite a ride next year.

Coming into last year, I would understand the concern from them not being "big" or "tough" enough, but we just watched them do it for a whole season. It's like people don't trust their own eyes.
I agree. Doo had a great conference season and Manek looked like our best player in the postseason (Games vs West Virginia in Big 12 tourney, Ole Miss & Virginia in NCAA Tourney)
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:55 PM   #38
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We were 184th in the country last year in rebounding margin. So let's stop, right now, acting like we were a good, solid, or even remotely adequate rebounding team. We were not.

And we were that bad while being pretty solid on defense, which typically creates more defensive rebounding opportunities.

Not a good stat. Shows our lack of rebounding and lack of toughness (which carries over to other areas of the game) last year.
We were 23rd in adjusted defensive efficiency, so let's stop acting like we can't play good defense with Doolittle at the 5.

https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:09 PM   #39
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We were 23rd in adjusted defensive efficiency, so let's stop acting like we can't play good defense with Doolittle at the 5.

https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE
Exactly. Notice how he can't even bring himself to issue an unqualified compliment? Instead of just acknowledging we were good defensively, "pretty solid" is as far as he'll go. I guess that's better than his feelings about Doo's defense.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:30 PM   #40
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Hard to stagger your best 2 players.
It is. That's why I fear we will struggle. Hard to believe we have no one to match up against opposing bigs.
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:00 PM   #41
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Exactly. Notice how he can't even bring himself to issue an unqualified compliment? Instead of just acknowledging we were good defensively, "pretty solid" is as far as he'll go. I guess that's better than his feelings about Doo's defense.
You love all the players. You love all the coaches.
So what, in your opinion, will keep us from finishing in the top 3 in the conference?
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:12 PM   #42
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You love all the players. You love all the coaches.
So what, in your opinion, will keep us from finishing in the top 3 in the conference?
If Doo at 5 is our worst starter? Absolutely nothing.
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:50 PM   #43
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6'8, 210 pounds and he can bang with Big 12 post players?

lol, no.

Not yet at least. Dude isn't going to contribute much this year. Mostly b/c Doo and Manek are going to gobble up much of the minutes at the 4/5 spots, but also b/c he is going to need a couple of years, and there are Kua probably will get minutes before him too. But he is going to struggle this year until he puts on some good strength, and learns how to rebound and block shots against true D1 talent.

Rivals has him at 230 pounds right now.
Iíve watched his film and I think you may be underestimating his heart and hustle. Heís very active around the rim, and plays with great strength. He dominated several D1 bigs in HS which lead to his ranking and offer list.

Hereís his scouting report

Evaluation
A strong, tough and physical post player. His biggest value lies in his ability to rebound and protect the rim. Although a little undersized, Iwaukor is a very good athlete that is quick off his feet, which helps negate being slightly undersized. Plays with tremendous energy and competes. Offensively, Iwaukor still has some developing to do. He looks to dunk everything around the rim, but doesnít have a developed go-to move and has just OK touch. Iwaukor is a four-year college player.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:27 PM   #44
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Our guards must rebound well if we play Manek and Doolittle the whole game together. I don't see Harmon or Reeves doing much on that end.. Williams, Hill and Bieniemy maybe can be above average rebounders for guards. Kuath must get 10-14min a game.. defend and rebound is all we need for that time from him.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:02 PM   #45
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You love all the players. You love all the coaches.
So what, in your opinion, will keep us from finishing in the top 3 in the conference?
You got me. Especially if you ignore all the times I pointed out critical flaws in players like James, Lattin, Calixte, Reynolds, and others. But I guess since I didn't call for guys to transfer or take personal shots at them, that means I love them all.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:23 AM   #46
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We were 23rd in adjusted defensive efficiency, so let's stop acting like we can't play good defense with Doolittle at the 5.

https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE
  • We were #6 out of 10 in scoring defense in the Big 12
  • We are #9 out of 10 in the Big 12 in offensive rebounds given up per game
  • #7 out of 10 in rebounding margin
  • #8 out of 10 in blocks
  • #8 out of 10 in steals
  • #2 out of 10 in FG% defense
  • #4 out of 10 in 3pt% defense

Looks like they aren't aggressive on defense which is why we don't block shots or get a bunch of steals, and rebounding is clearly a problem... but they do a good job of playing good, steady defense and force misses, etc.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:23 AM   #47
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You got me. Especially if you ignore all the times I pointed out critical flaws in players like James, Lattin, Calixte, Reynolds, and others. But I guess since I didn't call for guys to transfer or take personal shots at them, that means I love them all.
Where do you think OU finishes in the Big 12 this year?
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:10 AM   #48
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Default Re: This team could be better than most people think

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  • We were #6 out of 10 in scoring defense in the Big 12
  • We are #9 out of 10 in the Big 12 in offensive rebounds given up per game
  • #7 out of 10 in rebounding margin
  • #8 out of 10 in blocks
  • #8 out of 10 in steals
  • #2 out of 10 in FG% defense
  • #4 out of 10 in 3pt% defense

Looks like they aren't aggressive on defense which is why we don't block shots or get a bunch of steals, and rebounding is clearly a problem... but they do a good job of playing good, steady defense and force misses, etc.
You canít be as aggressive when you donít have a good rim protector.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:37 AM   #49
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Where do you think OU finishes in the Big 12 this year?
As I've said numerous times, I will be happy to make a prediction once rosters are final. Making a prediction now is crazy. We just added a player yesterday, apparently, and KU is likely to add a couple studs within the next couple weeks. Still lots of guys around the league deciding whether to stay in the draft, etc.

Also, to the poster who claimed I love all the players and wondered why I don't think we finish in the top three -- first off, I have never once thought about finishing in the top three. That is as random a cutoff point as possible. But to the bigger question of why we haven't finished higher in the standings the past three seasons, the answer is easy and obvious -- we haven't had the talent to do so. I have acknowledged that all along, many times over. Finishing top 3 in this league usually means you are one of the 10-15 best teams in America, and we haven't been close to that the past three years. To some, that means we should set the place on fire, get rid of Lon, and overhaul the program. To me, it means we need to get better, back to the level of 2015 and 2016, but also reflects the reality that all but maybe 10 programs in the country go through cycles like this. Sample size matters, so I pay more attention to what Lon's record is in his 265 games at OU, rather than cherry-picking his record in "the past three Big 12 seasons," which represents 20% of his overall games at OU.

That's my very long-winded answer to a short question.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:54 AM   #50
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You canít be as aggressive when you donít have a good rim protector.
Exactly why we need one. They also help erase mistakes on D by other players. Doolittle, as a 5, cannot do that.
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