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Old 02-02-2019, 10:56 PM   #1
MrAnderson
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Default 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

Tied with Texas for dead last during that stretch.
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Old 02-02-2019, 11:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

thats not good.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

Not going to get any better anytime soon.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

I can't imagine Lon surviving several mores years with a record like that in the Big 12,for much longer.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

Probably the best thing that has happened all year was coming back from 19 down against OSU a couple weeks ago. If they got run out of the gym or lost that game you are looking at 2-7 in the league with losses to horrendous WVU and OSU teams. They are on thin ice right now, but the season would have already tanked if that game went poorly.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

Way too many positives things to look forward to going into next season. Luckily the people in charge know this and aren't head hunters like some of you. I'm by no means saying that record is acceptable but I also understand what led to some of that and still have full confidence in LK. We add a lot of talent to this team next year and also have a pure shooter in Reeves that will compliment Harmon, and Bienimy very nicely.

This year was supposed to be a transition year...and it has been just that.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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...

This year was supposed to be a transition year...and it has been just that.
If this was SUPPOSED to be a transition year, what was 2016-17, when OU went 11-20 (5-13, Big-12)?
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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If this was SUPPOSED to be a transition year, what was 2016-17, when OU went 11-20 (5-13, Big-12)?
All 3 years have been transition years then and that's too long.
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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Way too many positives things to look forward to going into next season. Luckily the people in charge know this and aren't head hunters like some of you. I'm by no means saying that record is acceptable but I also understand what led to some of that and still have full confidence in LK. We add a lot of talent to this team next year and also have a pure shooter in Reeves that will compliment Harmon, and Bienimy very nicely.

This year was supposed to be a transition year...and it has been just that.
But that is the problem, it shouldn't take three years to bring in that kind of class/talent. 2017 sucked. 2018 was underwhelming considering we had Young and fell apart down the stretch. This year isn't looking great.

Next year's group should help, but we'll be young. It's not really that great of a class on paper, propped up by the sheer size of the class. But what happens in a couple of years, or when this group leaves? LK hasn't shown, in his career, that he can get a team into the top 25 and keep them there with any regularity.

And Bieniemy has scored a total of THREE points in the last three games. I have zero question that if I, at 40 years old, had played 87 minutes over those three games, I'd have more than three points to my name. Probably more turnovers too, but that isn't the point. The fans suggesting Bieniemy is better than he is, are the same fans that were doing the same for Manek, Doolittle, James, and a host of others in recent years. Harmon is going to struggle to score early in his career. And if this year was a transition year, what was 2017? And why did this year have to be a transition year? Sure we lost Young and McGusty, but this team has plenty of experience an options to be better than they are. NEXT year is the transition year when we lose at least 5 guys off this year's roster. We probably won't be better next year.
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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All 3 years have been transition years then and that's too long.
Lol...no crap...totally agree
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:14 PM   #11
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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Way too many positives things to look forward to going into next season. Luckily the people in charge know this and aren't head hunters like some of you. I'm by no means saying that record is acceptable but I also understand what led to some of that and still have full confidence in LK. We add a lot of talent to this team next year and also have a pure shooter in Reeves that will compliment Harmon, and Bienimy very nicely.

This year was supposed to be a transition year...and it has been just that.
Three years ago was to be a transitional year.
How was this year season suppose to be a transitional year , they were horrible the last two seasons .
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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Three years ago was to be a transitional year.
How was this year season suppose to be a transitional year , they were horrible the last two seasons .
I'm not denying ANY of what you guys are saying!!! Our biggest issue the last THREE SEASONS has been lack of overall talent!!! And we are about to bring in a handful of TALENT!!! It would be DUMB to fire a coach who has proven he can get us to the big show with good players and possibly WRECK a total recruiting class!!! Does anyone remember the class we lost when Kelvin left for Indiana!!??

The Trae Young experiment started great, but in the end chemistry showed how important it is...and last year ended in flames. This year still has some life in it believe it or not.

If all the pieces comes together, next year could be the start of something special. LK isn't going to coach forever...if next year ends with a positive trajectory, I could see LK turning over the keys to someone else 2-3 years from now..kinda like Stoops did.

IMO, to wreck all the positive potential of this class and bring in someone who very likely wouldn't even be as good as a coach as LK is to begin with, would be extremely detrimental.

The best answer isn't always to cut heads like some of you think.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

Here's every Big 12 team's record in conference since the 2016-2017 season for anyone interested:

1. Kansas: 35-10
2. Baylor: 26-18
3. West Virginia: 25-20
4. K State: 24-20
T5. Iowa St: 22-23
T5. Tech: 22-23
7. OSU: 19-25
8. TCU: 18-26
T9. OU: 16-29
T9. Texas: 16-29
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Old 02-04-2019, 12:11 AM   #14
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

Going even further back beginning with 2011-2012 (Lon's first year here) here are all Big 12 records of every program with corresponding win %, minus WV and TCU for 2011-2012 as they hadn't joined the conference yet.

1. Kansas: 107-28 (.79)
2. Iowa St: 78-57 (.58)
3. Baylor: 77-57 (.57)
4. West Virginia: 64-53 (.55)
5. Kansas St: 71-63 (.53)
6. OU: 68-67 (.50)
7. Texas: 62-73 (.46)
8. OSU: 58-76 (.43)
9. Tech: 44-91 (.33)
10. TCU: 26-90 (.22)

Looking at this it's pretty obvious OU's program is in the bottom half of the conference under Lon, and given Tech's and TCU's recent improvement and our current downward trajectory one could argue that OU is in the bottom 2 or 3 Big 12 programs going forward.

The only silver lining is next year's recruiting class. If it doesn't live up to expectations Lon needs to be shown the door sooner rather than later.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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Originally Posted by sooner 1234 View Post
Three years ago was to be a transitional year.
How was this year season suppose to be a transitional year , they were horrible the last two seasons .
OU was a tourney team last season that is not close to "horrible"

and OU still very likely will make the tourney this season
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:16 AM   #16
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

Poor job of recruiting after Hield's class and a poor job of hiring assistant coaches after making Final Four appearance. To me it's most concerning that our team seems to lack effort this year and last year. Very bad loss to West Virginia with their top 2 players out. Total embarrassment. James, Odomes, and McNeace have failed to develop. No leadership on the team. Hopefully Bienemy will correct that.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:35 AM   #17
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Man a lot of talk about awful recruiting since the Final Four season. Ok, let's look at that. How many people here were complaining about Kam and Doo back when they signed? Those two should have been a very solid class, and Freeman and Shep would ideally have become nice role players over time. Then last season, we sign Trae and Manek, plus Polla. Again, I don't recall many people saying that a class including TY and Brady was a bad recruiting effort. This season we obviously only added one high school kid, and JB has shown all the signs of being a great one.

Obviously things have not worked out as well as anyone would have hoped, but I don't see it as a recruiting issue as much as a development issue. And to me, a big problem has been that James has never taken the steps he needed to take. Teams need their veterans to imrpove and take the reigns. As much young, elite talent as a program like KU annually has, the guys who made them great the past three seasons were Ellis, Mason, and Graham. All of those guys were role players the first two or three years of their careers, and turned into All Americans by their final seasons. James should at least be an All Conference level player, but instead, he isn't one of the 15 best players in the league. Unless you expect OU to be able to pull in two or three 5 star kids each season, it is tough to get results when the experienced guys don't deliver. And to call it like it is, James has been brutal since about mid December.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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Man a lot of talk about awful recruiting since the Final Four season. Ok, let's look at that. How many people here were complaining about Kam and Doo back when they signed? Those two should have been a very solid class, and Freeman and Shep would ideally have become nice role players over time. Then last season, we sign Trae and Manek, plus Polla. Again, I don't recall many people saying that a class including TY and Brady was a bad recruiting effort. This season we obviously only added one high school kid, and JB has shown all the signs of being a great one.

Obviously things have not worked out as well as anyone would have hoped, but I don't see it as a recruiting issue as much as a development issue. And to me, a big problem has been that James has never taken the steps he needed to take. Teams need their veterans to imrpove and take the reigns. As much young, elite talent as a program like KU annually has, the guys who made them great the past three seasons were Ellis, Mason, and Graham. All of those guys were role players the first two or three years of their careers, and turned into All Americans by their final seasons. James should at least be an All Conference level player, but instead, he isn't one of the 15 best players in the league. Unless you expect OU to be able to pull in two or three 5 star kids each season, it is tough to get results when the experienced guys don't deliver. And to call it like it is, James has been brutal since about mid December.

The recruiting has been horrible. Objectively. Not just quality but also quantity and roster management. I've outlined this in other threads, but haven't signed anywhere near enough high school guards, meaning that with the attrition and recruiting misses that happen to every program, we've been up a creek and repeatedly had to bring in underwhelming JUCOs and now grad transfers.

Also you keep beating this drum about Christian James should be an all-conference player by now. Why? Christian James was a middling 3 star. He has improved dramatically since he got here, and has been a solid starter, but was never a guy who should have been asked to be the best guy on your team. He's not that level of talent, and never should have been put in that position. Perry Ellis was a 5 star, Devonte Graham was a top 40 kid, and Frank Mason was the scrappy underdog of the bunch as the #76 player and a 4 star. Those kids had much higher ceilings.
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:59 AM   #19
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The recruiting has been horrible. Objectively. Not just quality but also quantity and roster management. I've outlined this in other threads, but haven't signed anywhere near enough high school guards, meaning that with the attrition and recruiting misses that happen to every program, we've been up a creek and repeatedly had to bring in underwhelming JUCOs and now grad transfers.

Also you keep beating this drum about Christian James should be an all-conference player by now. Why? Christian James was a middling 3 star. He has improved dramatically since he got here, and has been a solid starter, but was never a guy who should have been asked to be the best guy on your team. He's not that level of talent, and never should have been put in that position. Perry Ellis was a 5 star, Devonte Graham was a top 40 kid, and Frank Mason was the scrappy underdog of the bunch as the #76 player and a 4 star. Those kids had much higher ceilings.
Other than rebounding, how has James improved? His scoring is up because he takes more shots and is now the primary option. He is shooting worse now than at any point in his career, and still isn't a good enough ball handler for a guard. Add in the fact that he disappears for long stretches when we need him most, and I don't see the "dramatic "improvement. And for all your talk about Graham and Mason, take a look at who offered them out of high school. Their rankings went up solely because of where they ended up signing. No one on the planet expected them to become stars, let alone National POY candidates.

But back to my point -- if you can find me a single post where, at the time they signed, you complained about Trae, Manek, Doo, or McGusty, I will be impressed. And don't give me the "roster management" stuff because that is not part of recruiting. Guys transferring after they arrive and play a year or two is a completely separate topic.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:28 AM   #20
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

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Other than rebounding, how has James improved? His scoring is up because he takes more shots and is now the primary option. He is shooting worse now than at any point in his career, and still isn't a good enough ball handler for a guard. Add in the fact that he disappears for long stretches when we need him most, and I don't see the "dramatic "improvement. And for all your talk about Graham and Mason, take a look at who offered them out of high school. Their rankings went up solely because of where they ended up signing. No one on the planet expected them to become stars, let alone National POY candidates.

But back to my point -- if you can find me a single post where, at the time they signed, you complained about Trae, Manek, Doo, or McGusty, I will be impressed. And don't give me the "roster management" stuff because that is not part of recruiting. Guys transferring after they arrive and play a year or two is a completely separate topic.

James is significantly better than when he got here. Hell, he's better than he was last year.

Nobody complained about those 4 recruits across 3 recruiting classes. And through very normal attrition rates, we lost two of those guys. That's why you need to sign more than 4 quality high school recruits over a 3 year period.

Roster management has everything to do with recruiting. We don't sign enough high school kids, especially high school guards. That is roster management.


Again, you are just a contrarian. You'd be arguing the exact opposite if that was the point I had been making.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:50 PM   #21
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OU was a tourney team last season that is not close to "horrible"

and OU still very likely will make the tourney this season
OU finished the season as a bad team .
Making the tourney because you are worthy as a team and making the tourney because you have a star that everyone wants to see play are two different things.
maybe we have a different definition of bad .
I could would call having a lotto pic and still finish towards the bottom of your conference as a bad season .

I would say three straight seasons with a losing conference record Three straight seasons finishing towards the bottom of your conference. Three straight seasons getting WORSE evey game ......as horrible .
But like I said some of this board have a different definition of what OU basketball is about .
I consider us a top 20 program , obviously you don’t.

Last edited by sooner 1234; 02-04-2019 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:35 PM   #22
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OU finished the season as a bad team .
Making the tourney because you are worthy as a team and making the tourney because you have a star that everyone wants to see play are two different things.
maybe we have a different definition of bad .
I could would call having a lotto pic and still finish towards the bottom of your conference as a bad season .

I would say three straight seasons with a losing conference record Three straight seasons finishing towards the bottom of your conference. Three straight seasons getting WORSE evey game ......as horrible .
But like I said some of this board have a different definition of what OU basketball is about .
I consider us a top 20 program , obviously you don’t.
So you think the committee put us in because of Trae, thinking ratings would shoot through the roof for that 11:15 Thursday morning tip?

I guess that's why Ben Simmons and LSU made it in 2016. Oh, wait ...

March Madness ratings don't depend on individual players. Millions of people watch every year precisely because they enjoy seeing no-name schools and players. This conspiracy that we got in because the NCAA wanted Trae in is as bizarre as the conspiracy that Kelvin was forced out. The fact is, we made the tournament. I know that makes it tougher to argue that we were horrible, awful, embarrassing, etc.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: 16-29 in Big 12 play since Buddy left

I think the talent level is a small part, but I think the bigger problem since the final four is replacing Henson and Hill.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:25 PM   #24
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Last year was a disaster. Last year was a team that should have been very good absolutely imploding. There is no excuse for last year. This year, however, is a transition year. We are all disappointed by the recent play, but no one thought before the season this team would be very good. They overachieved in the non-con.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:13 PM   #25
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Last year was a disaster. Last year was a team that should have been very good absolutely imploding. There is no excuse for last year. This year, however, is a transition year. We are all disappointed by the recent play, but no one thought before the season this team would be very good. They overachieved in the non-con.
Great post right here!
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