Discuss Porter Moser thread DON'T DO IT ANYWHERE ELSE - Page 2

Romulus · 03-21-2023, 02:40 PM

I see absolutely zero cohesion any where in the program, from the coaching staff that is a revolving door to the players/team that is also a revolving door. I don't see any real program being built. Zero stability.

BoulderSooner · 03-21-2023, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

I see absolutely zero cohesion any where in the program, from the coaching staff that is a revolving door to the players/team that is also a revolving door. I don't see any real program being built. Zero stability.

coaches leaving for HC jobs and or better jobs (#1 kentucky ast now a HC) is never a bad thing to happen sure the 1 new guy this year was weird

BoulderSooner · 03-21-2023, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eielson

Are there advanced metrics that say our team last year was good? I thought we were all in agreement that this past season was terrible.

season was terrible ... but the team wasn't ... it wasn't good either .. some where in-between ..

WTSooner · 03-21-2023, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

I see absolutely zero cohesion any where in the program, from the coaching staff that is a revolving door to the players/team that is also a revolving door. I don't see any real program being built. Zero stability.

That's what everybody overlooks. No stability. No identity. No clear path forward. No positive movement on landing bigs that can contribute in a positive manner.

WichitaSooner · 03-21-2023, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTSooner

That's what everybody overlooks. No stability. No identity. No clear path forward. No positive movement on landing bigs that can contribute in a positive manner.

I definitely don't think it is overlooked. I think many (most?) of us feel this way. There are a few who still seem to think Moser is on the right path because of his high school recruiting (and a couple good seasons at Loyola), but it seems most people are concerned about all the things you mention.

Darwin · 03-21-2023, 03:55 PM

Rather than pick at reasons why we were poor, now it's got to be about next season results. If they are in the middle of the conference record wise or better, he may keep his job. Three seasons of failure is too much baggage for him to recruit talent or sell tickets.

TarheelstateSooner · 03-22-2023, 05:40 AM

Seems rather inauspicious to keep him, when the percentage of him succeeding is rather low at this point. Why delay the inevitable?

AnotherSoonerInTX · 03-22-2023, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarheelstateSooner

Seems rather inauspicious to keep him, when the percentage of him succeeding is rather low at this point. Why delay the inevitable?

He has a $9 million buyout that goes down to $6 million on April 1.

BoulderSooner · 03-22-2023, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherSoonerInTX

He has a $9 million buyout that goes down to $6 million on April 1.

also firing very very well respected coaches after less then 2 years is a bad look and doesn't help you hire the next guy with out way overpaying ..

Soonerb98 · 03-22-2023, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

also firing very very well respected coaches after less then 2 years is a bad look and doesn't help you hire the next guy with out way overpaying ..

I'm not sure how many would put PM in the "very,very well respected" category, but I agree with your logic for 2 reasons:
1. We haven't had embarrassing off-court issues (tech,ut,bama...)
2. We've been just good enough (around .500) that one can at least debate whether it's been a complete disaster, unlike say Georgetown.

It will be tough to hire PM replacement next year too, likely, but doing so now would really be a struggle to sell any sense of stability to a new coach. I don't think PM inherited near as big of a mess as he is likely to leave the next coach, so we'll need all the selling points we can get when that day comes.

BoulderSooner · 03-22-2023, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soonerb98

I'm not sure how many would put PM in the "very,very well respected" category, but I agree with your logic for 2 reasons:
1. We haven't had embarrassing off-court issues (tech,ut,bama...)
2. We've been just good enough (around .500) that one can at least debate whether it's been a complete disaster, unlike say Georgetown.

It will be tough to hire PM replacement next year too, likely, but doing so now would really be a struggle to sell any sense of stability to a new coach. I don't think PM inherited near as big of a mess as he is likely to leave the next coach, so we'll need all the selling points we can get when that day comes.

listen to any of the national guys that called OU games

PM is very well respected

WichitaSooner · 03-22-2023, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

listen to any of the national guys that called OU games

PM is very well respected

You are correct that some of them said this, but I would challenge you to find examples of broadcasters saying that a guy is doing a poor job while calling a game. It never happens, unless the coach is allowing things to implode off the floor. As long as players are behaving, announcers make everyone sound like the next coming of John Wooden.

BoulderSooner · 03-22-2023, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

You are correct that some of them said this, but I would challenge you to find examples of broadcasters saying that a guy is doing a poor job while calling a game. It never happens, unless the coach is allowing things to implode off the floor. As long as players are behaving, announcers make everyone sound like the next coming of John Wooden.

if guys think bad of a coach they tend to just say nothing

TEvans4Three · 03-22-2023, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

You are correct that some of them said this, but I would challenge you to find examples of broadcasters saying that a guy is doing a poor job while calling a game. It never happens, unless the coach is allowing things to implode off the floor. As long as players are behaving, announcers make everyone sound like the next coming of John Wooden.

Or you can find examples if you are trying to prove the counterpoint?

Did you watch the Purdue game? Matt Painter got ripped for a poorly called game. Talked about his failures in the tournament the last 3 years. Purdue was a 1 seed.

Porter Moser also got the 2022 U.S. Basketball Writers Association College Basketball "Good Guy" Award. So I would say that is "well respected."

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WichitaSooner · 03-22-2023, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEvans4Three

Or you can find examples if you are trying to prove the counterpoint?

Did you watch the Purdue game? Matt Painter got ripped for a poorly called game. Talked about his failures in the tournament the last 3 years. Purdue was a 1 seed.

Porter Moser also got the 2022 U.S. Basketball Writers Association College Basketball "Good Guy" Award. So I would say that is "well respected."

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Lots of folks are good guys. Doesn't mean they are good basketball coaches. And the fact that someone might have been a good coach at one spot doesn't mean he is good at his current job. Billy Gillespie was a star in the making at A&M. People thought Shaka was bound for stardom at Texas. There have been plenty of times, in football and basketball, where guys who had a lot of success at a mid major move to a P5 job and really struggle.

I understand the buyout, and as much as I am disappointed by his first two years, I can understand giving him a third year. But the fact that he is a "good guy" and had two or three good years at Loyola shouldn't factor into whether he should be our coach if he doesn't get us to the tourney next season.

BoulderSooner · 03-22-2023, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

But the fact that he is a "good guy" and had two or three good years at Loyola shouldn't factor into whether he should be our coach

i think everyone agrees with this

steverocks35 · 03-22-2023, 09:15 AM

The bottom line is that PM will be our coach next year and if we don't see significant improvement, including making the NCAA tournament, he won't be retained. I think it's that simple.

TEvans4Three · 03-22-2023, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

Lots of folks are good guys. Doesn't mean they are good basketball coaches. And the fact that someone might have been a good coach at one spot doesn't mean he is good at his current job. Billy Gillespie was a star in the making at A&M. People thought Shaka was bound for stardom at Texas. There have been plenty of times, in football and basketball, where guys who had a lot of success at a mid major move to a P5 job and really struggle.

I understand the buyout, and as much as I am disappointed by his first two years, I can understand giving him a third year. But the fact that he is a "good guy" and had two or three good years at Loyola shouldn't factor into whether he should be our coach if he doesn't get us to the tourney next season.

Why do you constantly keep moving the goalposts?

Respected was the initial point, yes? "Good Guy" award, by the media, would lead someone to believe he is respected. What point are you actually wanting to disagree with then? The ability for you to dodge any sort of concession on any point is mind-blowing to me.

BoulderSooner · 03-22-2023, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steverocks35

The bottom line is that PM will be our coach next year and if we don't see significant improvement, including making the NCAA tournament, he won't be retained. I think it's that simple.

i could see him getting a 4th year is OU is a first team out kind of team with another good recruiting class signed ..

but for sure i want to see improvement ..

WichitaSooner · 03-22-2023, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEvans4Three

Why do you constantly keep moving the goalposts?

Respected was the initial point, yes? "Good Guy" award, by the media, would lead someone to believe he is respected. What point are you actually wanting to disagree with then? The ability for you to dodge any sort of concession on any point is mind-blowing to me.

I guess when I see someone refer to a coach as "very, very respected" in a thread discussing his coaching, I assume he is referring to his coaching acumen and not whether he is a good human being. I'll let Boulder speak as to what he meant, but as for whether he is a good guy -- sure, I will be happy to concede your point. I don't think it is relevant in whether he should be our coach, but glad to know he is a nice fella.

steverocks35 · 03-22-2023, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

i could see him getting a 4th year is OU is a first team out kind of team with another good recruiting class signed ..

but for sure i want to see improvement ..

Maybe, but that would signal to me that OU REALLY doesn't care much about basketball.

BoulderSooner · 03-22-2023, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steverocks35

Maybe, but that would signal to me that OU REALLY doesn't care much about basketball.

with every thing i think it depends on the context ..

if los and oweh improve and cooper and cole show promise .. and another good class is signed ..

and OU misses the dance by 1 game ... he will get a 4th year IMHO

Eielson · 03-22-2023, 09:56 AM

If his "core 4" are progressing as they should and he brings in two more top 100 HS guys, I suspect he'll stay for year 4 barring legal or ethical issues. If Oweh doesn't progress, Uzan goes pro, and Cooper transfers out, I can't see him keeping his job. I think it has a lot more to do with those guys than a specific win target. But better than 15-17.

hoopsaustin · 03-22-2023, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEvans4Three

Or you can find examples if you are trying to prove the counterpoint?

Did you watch the Purdue game? Matt Painter got ripped for a poorly called game. Talked about his failures in the tournament the last 3 years. Purdue was a 1 seed.

Porter Moser also got the 2022 U.S. Basketball Writers Association College Basketball "Good Guy" Award. So I would say that is "well respected."

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The REAL trophies..

Soonerb98 · 03-22-2023, 10:15 AM

I should have been clearer that I was specifically addressing respect for on court and recruiting prowess when I questioned the "very,very..." part. I don't think there is any case to be made about off court issues under PM. From that perspective, he's been great.

I feel like his market value has really peaked, though, after being a sensation 5 years ago. His portal record suggests that many players don't see him as a top option to play for. I also don't remember the gushing by announcers that Boulder referenced, beyond the benefit of the doubt praise that all coaches get during broadcasts, but I missed more games than usual this year.

Regardless, I agree he gets at least one more year. I'm just hoping we're not having exactly the same discussion in 12 months, because it has become a moot point...for a good reason!