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Old 10-10-2017, 06:09 PM   #1
inoref
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Default Another year

I'm willing to wait and see what type of team SC can put on the floor. I have my own opinion but will keep it to myself for now. If what I been reading is true having only 9 players? How in the heck can this happen at a "big time" program like OU?
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:15 PM   #2
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I'm willing to wait and see what type of team SC can put on the floor. I have my own opinion but will keep it to myself for now. If what I been reading is true having only 9 players? How in the heck can this happen at a "big time" program like OU?
I hardly think OU is big time. Haven't been for a minimum of 10 years. This is life when UCONN wins everything, and 4 teams are getting all the good players.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Another year

I agree I wouldn’t call OU an elite school at the moment, Sherri hasn’t been to the final four since 2010, that’s a pretty long time ago....
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:25 AM   #4
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I beg to differ, as far as the Final Four go anyway, we went back to back in 2009 and 2010 and before then went on a string of several Sweet 16s, the last one being 2013 I believe? It was McFarland's senior year. We have a "respectable program" I'd say. I just wish some of these great high school players attempted to go elsewhere besides the big five schools (UCONN, ND, Baylor, UT, Tenn & recently SC), it would give so much parity to the game and we wouldn't have crap like UCONN winning 111 games in a row. Believe me when i say this, this year Uconn will go on another roll like that, although I always love an upset. I hope we have a great year this year at OU, fingers crossed!!
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:58 AM   #5
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I beg to differ, as far as the Final Four go anyway, we went back to back in 2009 and 2010 and before then went on a string of several Sweet 16s, the last one being 2013 I believe? It was McFarland's senior year. We have a "respectable program" I'd say. I just wish some of these great high school players attempted to go elsewhere besides the big five schools (UCONN, ND, Baylor, UT, Tenn & recently SC), it would give so much parity to the game and we wouldn't have crap like UCONN winning 111 games in a row. Believe me when i say this, this year Uconn will go on another roll like that, although I always love an upset. I hope we have a great year this year at OU, fingers crossed!!
Thank-you.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Another year

So getting past what should be 2 lesser teams and reaching the round of 16 is what you call successful?
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:13 PM   #7
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So getting past what should be 2 lesser teams and reaching the round of 16 is what you call successful?
Any year you make it to the sweet sixteen is a good year. The second round match would not be against a team that I would consider a lesser team...our losses in that round the last 3 years have been to Washington, Kentucky and Stanford. What has been disappointing is we have had 4 years in a row without making it to the round of 16.
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:36 AM   #8
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Connecticut had a team of nine players and dominated while winning a national title. Teams often show more than allowed on the roster, but do nothing. It is all about what you have and how hard they are willing to work.

I have a bit more confidence with this team than I have had in recent years. Oh, I doubt we are a Final Four team, unless we get a good draw. But, I have more confidence in the leaders of this team. There is also a difference between having depth and just having players on the roster.

A lot will depend on how Ana, Shaina, and Mandy develop as freshmen. I have the feeling that they will contribute more to this team than those that we lost, seniors and transfers.
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Old 10-19-2017, 06:49 AM   #9
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Connecticut had a team of nine players and dominated while winning a national title. Teams often show more than allowed on the roster, but do nothing. It is all about what you have and how hard they are willing to work.

I have a bit more confidence with this team than I have had in recent years. Oh, I doubt we are a Final Four team, unless we get a good draw. But, I have more confidence in the leaders of this team. There is also a difference between having depth and just having players on the roster.

A lot will depend on how Ana, Shaina, and Mandy develop as freshmen. I have the feeling that they will contribute more to this team than those that we lost, seniors and transfers.

That may be asking a bit much for the three freshmen. The departed seniors and transfers accounted for 55% of the offense and 38% of the boards last season. I don't see the three new girls scoring 40.7 points and getting 15 boards per game. Of course the departed were a -60 in turnover margin so there is ample opportunity to be much better in that area.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:26 AM   #10
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I know this is going to sound crazy, but as long as nobody gets injured again, having 9 players might be a blessing. The future of the program getting back to an elite level is going to start with our three freshmen & then the class that follows them. From what I've read and seen, these 3 freshmen have an opportunity to be really good basketball players at Oklahoma. The more court time they can see right away, the better. With our limited roster, all of them are going to get significant playing time out of necessity. They're going to grow up right away. I honestly am not so convinced it's all that bad.

Granted, I don't think you would want to put yourself in this situation. But sometimes, things like this can be blessings in disguise. I sure hope that's the case!
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:48 AM   #11
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That may be asking a bit much for the three freshmen. The departed seniors and transfers accounted for 55% of the offense and 38% of the boards last season. I don't see the three new girls scoring 40.7 points and getting 15 boards per game. Of course the departed were a -60 in turnover margin so there is ample opportunity to be much better in that area.
The numbers are a bit misleading. The departures also put up 55% of the shots. But, the departees only hit 39.55% if their shots, whereas the returnees hit 43.79%. The returnees also hit better from three, 35.14% to 33.59%. This was amplified in conference play when the returnees hit 41.01% from three. The returnees also shot and hit more free throws, 75.29% to 70.15%. So, essentially, the departees were also taking away shots from returnees who were better shooters.

It is very easy for me to believe that our returnees and newcomers will find a way to make up 40.7 points and 15 boards. I think that between Vivi, Maddie, Gabbi, and LaNesia, we will add about ten points per game. EJ and Giley will be gravy. Just getting some of those points back from turnovers will add a few points. I suspect our team shooting percentage will be closer to 45% rather than 41.5%, and our three-point percentage will likely be closer to 38% as opposed to 34.2%. That would be hitting 74 more shots, 24 of which would be threes for a total of 172 more points this year, assuming the same number of shots. Just shooting percentages favor a higher scoring output. We retained three of our top four shooters, including our three-point shooters from conference play. Oh, 172 points in 33 games is five more points per game.

Go back and look at the shooting percentages (career) of our departees.
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:23 AM   #12
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Syb, have your jets cooled on Maddie a bit after last season? I may be doing too much reading between the lines.

However, you have been noticeably quiet about her given your past praise.

I still think my assessment of her return and impact has been more on point. She’s a good player who occasionally plays great, but she seems to lacking in consistency to some degree and leadership on the court.

I’m not disappointed in her or what she did last season as compared to some of the other girls, but I would still argue she is far from the premiere she initially might have been or that you have going Gaga over for the last five years.


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Old 10-20-2017, 04:09 AM   #13
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Syb, have your jets cooled on Maddie a bit after last season? I may be doing too much reading between the lines.

However, you have been noticeably quiet about her given your past praise.

I still think my assessment of her return and impact has been more on point. She’s a good player who occasionally plays great, but she seems to lacking in consistency to some degree and leadership on the court.

I’m not disappointed in her or what she did last season as compared to some of the other girls, but I would still argue she is far from the premiere she initially might have been or that you have going Gaga over for the last five years.


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I think if Maddie steps up, she may be the best in the Big Twelve.
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:38 AM   #14
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I think if Maddie steps up, she may be the best in the Big Twelve.
I emphatically agree.
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Old 10-20-2017, 09:59 AM   #15
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I'd love to agree. There's no game over game evidence to back up that belief. There are definite spurts of high level play, just nothing consistent.
Final chance for Manning.
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:41 AM   #16
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She hasn't shown that ability.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:46 PM   #17
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Thank you, Syb for that honest answer. I believed you might be thinking that way based upon your recent posts.

She has all the potential in the world. However, last year showed me she definitely lacks top-level leadership qualities.

I hope, if she finds them, they are on full display this year.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:01 AM   #18
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Thank you, Syb for that honest answer. I believed you might be thinking that way based upon your recent posts.

She has all the potential in the world. However, last year showed me she definitely lacks top-level leadership qualities.

I hope, if she finds them, they are on full display this year.
I completely agree to this statement. Manning has the physical ability, it's just the mental that she's been shaky on thus far. I think if she is steady mentally and aggressive she could definitely make 1st team, if not 2nd team for sure. I actually believe our best player this year might be Llanusa, call me crazy. I know she's a freshman but just seeing her ability to score and her physicality I think she could easily be our best player this year. Only time will tell! Less than a month guys!!!
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:03 AM   #19
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OU tends not to upset anyone. We win the ones we are supposed to. The last upset was probably over Baylor in Norman in 2015, 68-64. We tend to be upset, especially by teams that foul a lot: Baylor, West Virginia, Kentucky. I don't know that we should have ever lost to Kentucky or West Virginia. We blew a win over Kentucky when Kornet lost her cool and threw the ball after being fouled with about a second left. It resulted in two Kentucky free throws, and a Kentucky win.

The last OU team that really played over its head at tournament time was 2004 when a team that was 9-7 in the Big Twelve, upset #13 Colorado, #8 Kansas State, and #2 Texas to win the Big Twelve tournament. We were #19 at the time.

As far as how great recruiting can make a team great, Baylor has recruited top classes for about ten years. They haven't been to the Final Four since 2012, losing four times in the Elite Eight and once in the Sweet Sixteen. Kansas can beat them. OSU can beat them. Kentucky beats them. West Virginia beat them in Waco and in the Big Twelve finals. There is a message there about the type of team that beats Baylor. Texas doesn't even do as well as they should.

OU is constantly being criticized on this board. Conference finishes:
1 2006
T1 2007
T3 2008
1 2009
T2 2010
T3 2011
T2 2012
T3 2013
T5 2014
T2 2015
T4 2016
3 2017

Lot of 1, 2, and 3's there. One time we got down to #5.

I have had the impression for the past three years that we have been playing beneath what we thought were our capabilities. I think we thought too much of certain players. They were good in highschool. But, they really never became college stars. I think Vivi, Maddie, and Gabbi are the best of the players that we have had, and I hope they will rise to the level of which they are capable this year.

Let's remember that Vivi began here as a freshman who hadn't played but a couple of years. She had also torn her ACL in the final game of her highschool career. Despite that, she was able to play as a freshman. She has improved. Her defense is better. She has better moves. Her free throw shooting has improved (21 points).

Gabbi has cut her turnovers down from 84 to 56 while raising her Assists to 121. She is our best free throw shooter.

Maddie has overcome two ACL surgeries along with some other knee injuries to become our scoring leader. She shot 46% from three in Big Twelve play last year. She is an 80% free throw shooter, our second leading rebounder, and led the Big Twelve in steals. Been high in that category for two years now. She causes turnovers. I've seen complaints that Maddie turns it over too much. She has 127 turnovers in the past two years. She has 113 steals to go with her 151 assists. Her A/T ratio is high enough without bringing her steals into play. She also gets some blocked shots. And, she is still recovering from injuries, gaining confidence that she won't go down. Against the team that we seem to fold against, Baylor, she was 11 and 9 last year. Everyone should do that good. While recovering from her injury last year, she was 11 and 2, but she did thrown three steals into the mix.

I think we had some players who simply had "deer in the headlights" complex when we played Baylor. I hope that this group has divested themselves of this. We beat Washington on their home floor, the same team that wiped out the Kentucky team that eliminated us and went to the Final Four. Beat them two years in a row. Curiously, the Washington team that we had beaten two years in a row killed us last year, after they went to the Final Four. Now, do we back down from Washington? I think that attitude graduated.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:37 AM   #20
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IF Gabbi, Vivi, and Maddie are the best players on the roster, then OU has not been underachieving. I'd buy that.
The issue is that Gabbi (evaluation issue, over rated coming of HS??), Vivi (overachieved), and Maddie (knee injuries) were the best players. Where's the help?
Recruiting talent, evaluation, and depth has been the real issue. 2nd squad letting small leads against talented teams turning into big leads.
The juniors are not impact players at all. I really EJ with more minute develops some this year.
The sophomores are flat out gone.
It's going to be the 3 seniors and the 3 freshman driving this team.
I think you are going to see a huge difference once Madison Williams, Tatum, and Llanusa are the core 3 of the roster. I do think Pellington has a chance to be a real surprise. And Gillespie from the incoming class I think maybe an absolute steal.
Murcer and Robertson hopefully provide some perimeter scoring punch off the bench.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:50 AM   #21
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IF Gabbi, Vivi, and Maddie are the best players on the roster, then OU has not been underachieving. I'd buy that.
The issue is that Gabbi (evaluation issue, over rated coming of HS??), Vivi (overachieved), and Maddie (knee injuries) were the best players. Where's the help?
Recruiting talent, evaluation, and depth has been the real issue. 2nd squad letting small leads against talented teams turning into big leads.
The juniors are not impact players at all. I really EJ with more minute develops some this year.
The sophomores are flat out gone.
It's going to be the 3 seniors and the 3 freshman driving this team.
I think you are going to see a huge difference once Madison Williams, Tatum, and Llanusa are the core 3 of the roster. I do think Pellington has a chance to be a real surprise. And Gillespie from the incoming class I think maybe an absolute steal.
Murcer and Robertson hopefully provide some perimeter scoring punch off the bench.
What was the old joke: "the only person who could keep Michael Jordan from scoring twenty points per game was Dean Smith."

I think we've had a case of that, not necessarily due to Sherri. But, we had some "scorers" who weren't.
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