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Old 09-08-2017, 03:41 PM   #1
AdaSooner
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Default Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

Does Bilas make some good points about allowing transfers to play immediately instead of sitting out a season?

I was surprised to learn the NCAA is actually considering it.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...y-not-sit-year
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

Softball has permitted this for some time. Shelby Pendley and Kelsey Stevens were first-year transfers when they played for OU. We had just lost Gascoigne and Keilani. Thus, the Stevens transfer from Stanford enabled us to go back to the CWS. This past year, we won with Lowary who had pitched for Missouri the year before.

I suspect that many schools would use immediate transfers as cost-cutting tools. In basketball, it hurts if you have a transfer or two and someone is injured. Others may be sitting on the bench elsewhere who would love to have the opportunity to play. How many teams would love to have Baylor transfer, Mompremier, for the next couple of years? A Nebraska transfer was a very highly-sought-after recruit, and she had to sit out a year.

A smaller school might find it costly to keep fourteen or fifteen on the team just to guard against transfers or injuries. Lose a couple, and you can't even have a practice game. Someone who might not have any chance of playing at one school might be starting at another. A team might have good depth and yet play only seven in a tight game.

This might even affect football. Would you need eighty-five if you could bring on even a limited number of transfers to replace injured players or transfers.
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Old 09-08-2017, 06:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

Good points, Syb! I think we may see immediate eligibility in women's basketball long before a proposal is adopted by the men. Look no further than the shot clock rule to know why I say that.

Here's another article on this topic:

Quote:
The proposal to offer transfers "one-time" immediate eligibility if they meet academic benchmarks will next go to the committee on academics.
http://www.espn.com/college-football...lity-transfers

The debates ahead that will almost certainly be intense at times should be interesting. Coaches quoted in the above article are opposed to the idea. College coaches don't always like change, even when it's in the best interest of the student athlete.
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Old 09-08-2017, 06:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

I wouldn't have a problem with 'letting them play' if they were allowed to transfer without penalty once only. If they have unlimited transfers without penalty you are going to end up with 'mercenaries' who might be at 4 schools in 4 years. That's not good for the players or the schools.
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Old 09-08-2017, 06:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

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I wouldn't have a problem with 'letting them play' if they were allowed to transfer without penalty once only. If they have unlimited transfers without penalty you are going to end up with 'mercenaries' who might be at 4 schools in 4 years. That's not good for the players or the schools.

Agreed. My understanding of the proposal to be presented to the academic committee is for a one time transfer that will also contain guidelines on meeting academic standards.
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:16 PM   #6
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

Talk about open recruiting and "super teams".

It's an awful awful thing in my opinion
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Old 09-09-2017, 05:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

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Talk about open recruiting and "super teams".

It's an awful awful thing in my opinion
I'm with you on that. The rule will get abused so badly that guys will be switching "teams" like it's a "Fantasy League".

I do think players should be allowed to transfer without sitting if their head coach gets fired or leaves, but never directly to the school which hires that coach. Some will argue that the player signs with "the school, not the coach", but we all know that's a croc.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

Agreed. Can't have free for all transferring.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

I agree that wholesale transfers would be bad for the game. I'm for selective transferring on a case by case basis. I especially like the idea of making players eligible immediately if they meet academic guidelines. Students at every level have the freedom to transfer to another school without penalty. Why can't that apply to athletes?
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:31 AM   #10
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

I think it's a bad idea. Coaches will have to be recruiting their own players constantly.
What's wrong with young people working their ways through adversity and growing vs running away when things get tough or things not handed to you on a silver platter?
Open transfer no different than the current culture created with aau basketball.
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:00 AM   #11
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

This would be a bad thing . The recruiting game needs more stability not less. I hate the post season player movement ciaos when coaches change schools. Better to remove incentives for schools to (hire/steal) coaches from other schools because they can collect players in that period, so the new coach can upgrade the talent instantly. Coach X may choose to stay rather than coach a poor team while waiting for his 1st recruiting class the following year.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

I don't care if it "bad for the game" it's what is right. They are students first so they shouldn't be restricted. Pay them first if you want to put stipulations on kids.

And I think it would be fine for the game. If all these kids wanted to do was join super teams they can do it out of high school anyway. Players are way more competitive than it seems like some of you think.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

Why do players get blamed for wanting to switch teams anyway if they feel it gets them a better opportunity to get to the next level? They only get this chance once, but coaches can do whatever they want, like build a Memphis powerhouse and bolt for greener pastures and it's no big deal. They should allow the kids 1 transfer opportunity and place restrictions on coaches for contacting kids first (poaching other players) sure it would still happen but you bring the hammer down on anyone caught and send a message.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

Men and women choose schools for different reasons, and their goals tend to be different. But, we might learn from what we have seen in women's softball.

1. There is no wholesale movement of players to or from successful programs.

2. Few impact players transfer.

3. Usually, a transfer involves something other than just wanting to play for a winning team.

Recent transfers to and from OU: (off the top of my head)

Shelby Pendley: from Arizona to OU after her freshman year. Two programs rated about equal at the time. She just wasn't happy at Arizona.

Tony Nirschi: from Pitt. Had been fairly successful at Pitt. Didn't play much at OU. No reason given for transfer. No real gain in playing time.

Kelsey Stevens: from Stanford. Several pitchers have transferred from Stanford recently, resulting in a decline in their program to maybe the worst in the Pac 12. Recent coaching change resulted. Stevens came to a program in which Gascoigne and Ricketts had graduated, and she led OU to the CWS as our only legitimate starter. Ineffective as a senior. Apparently, some problems at Stanford. Hoover of LSU also transferred from Stanford.

Paige Lowary: from Missouri. This wasn't so much a transfer as it was a resurrection. After a decent freshman year, Paige was hit in the head with a line drive. She was out for a while, appeared to be afraid to be on the mound. She lost all interest in softball and was strongly considering just quitting the sport. She transferred to OU and was a star late in the year. OU solved her emotional problems by giving her confidence.

Dalton: From OU to ? Forget where. She missed half of her freshman year with various emotional issues. Didn't like to work out. Class attendance problem. Just needed to grow up. Couldn't seem to do it here. Apparently, had similar issues in highschool.

Destinie Lookout: from OU. Wasn't likely to play much. I don't know if she is still playing.

Jadyn Chestnut: After FR year, transferred to Central in Edmond where she has been very successful. Wasn't likely to be a key player at OU. Not quite high D-1 talent.

Brit Finney: Transferred to Mississippi. DP most of the year. Pitched a one-hitter (?) against Bama late in the year. Coming around. Control problems at OU, Possible parental influence. Unhappy.

You see this much activity in a lot of sports. Players who don't see playing time may leave, even if they have to sit out a year. None of these were likely to be influenced by having to sit out a year. Other factors intervened.

Mostly, what we see is players leave programs for a reason. If you see one transfer, you may see several. It is often due to something wrong with the program. Missouri has had a lot of transfers. I haven't seen many transfers to other major programs, and almost none of consequence. In some way, some transfers are somewhat like a male going pro early, just to get away.
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Old 09-09-2017, 04:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

It opens the door to the player telling the coach if you don't play me then I will transfer immediately. This will be abused by players and coaches. I am all for if the coach leaves then the players should be able to transfer with penalty. I am fine with transfers in softball and baseball as long as they are not intra-conference.
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Old 09-10-2017, 02:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

This seems like one of those solutions looking for a problem.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

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They are students first so they shouldn't be restricted. .
Exactly...they are students first...so why let them go transfer b/c of a sport? None of these transfers are changing schools for academics.

This would be a terrible thing.But I'm not surprised with the way society is heading that this is coming up. Pretty soon we will hear reports that players are treated like slaves and can't go wherever they want to play.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:39 AM   #18
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Exactly...they are students first...so why let them go transfer b/c of a sport? None of these transfers are changing schools for academics.

This would be a terrible thing.But I'm not surprised with the way society is heading that this is coming up. Pretty soon we will hear reports that players are treated like slaves and can't go wherever they want to play.
So it's ok for some students to transfer to another school regardless of reason, yet not ok for some because they happen to generate revenue for the university? Explain to me how that's fair or just? Stop thinking about how it affects the game and think about what is right.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:54 AM   #19
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

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So it's ok for some students to transfer to another school regardless of reason, yet not ok for some because they happen to generate revenue for the university? Explain to me how that's fair or just? Stop thinking about how it affects the game and think about what is right.
student athletes are free to transfer to another school just like non athletes.

You just have to sit out a year in football.

But you can still transfer and go to school...b/c that is what its all about right?
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

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So it's ok for some students to transfer to another school regardless of reason, yet not ok for some because they happen to generate revenue for the university? Explain to me how that's fair or just? Stop thinking about how it affects the game and think about what is right.
The athletes who play a revenue sport are usually the ones who have the most shady stuff going on with boosters. IMO you have to continue to make them sit out a year, makes them think about their decision longer and makes sure they really want to leave. My guess is that the transfer list would quadruple if you don't make them sit out.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

1. I fail to see how it's OK for coaches to leave 1 school for another whenever they want and for universities to get rid of coaches for other coaches whenever they want, but the athletes --upon whom the programs depend -- can't do that. Coaches can recruit players to universities and then leave (or be fired) and the players are stuck. This is right? It's OK for the coach or the University to break its commitment to the player but not OK for the player to break his commitment to the coach or university.

2. The fact that athletes in most sports do not have to give up a year of eligibility tells you everything you need to know about the purpose of this rule. This rule is not for the benefit of the player and has nothing to do with academics or the rule would apply to all sports. This is all about protecting coaches' and universities' power over the athletes.

3. Finally, Bilas's main point is that the NCAA has consistently taken the stand that these players are not employees. They are students. College athletics is not professional athletics. If they were professionals, there are a lot of companies with non-compete clauses that prevent employees from leaving 1 company and going to work immediately for a competitor, similar to the NCAA's transfer rule. But any non-athlete student can at any time leave 1 university for another without penalty. If these athletes are students and not employees, you can't deny them the same rights that any other student has. A university could, if they were employees, hold them to some sort of non-compete clause. But the NCAA insists that they're students, just like any other student. They can't have it both ways.

The current transfer rule is absolutely about maintaining a system where those in power (the universities and coaches) exert power over the athletes. That's it. It serves to prop 1 group up and keep the other group down -- like adults and children. This, despite the fact that college athletics depends almost exclusively on the athletes. Would we enjoy the competitions without the coaches or university presidents? Yep. We don't enjoy games bc of Lon Kruger, Coach K, or John Calipari. Would we enjoy them without the players...if just you and I & regular people were playing? No chance. College athletics depends on the players almost exclusively and the transfer rule is designed to maintain an order where coaches and university presidents lord over them.

I know 90% will disagree bc we're all used to the system that's in place. But I'll ask all of you to put yourselves in place of that athlete. How would you feel? Why would you feel that way? Now, put yourselves in the place of the university president. Why do you want to maintain the transfer rule? Is it because that's what's best for the person upon whom college athletics depends or is it because that's what's best for you (the university president), the Lord of the manor?
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

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I think it's a bad idea. Coaches will have to be recruiting their own players constantly.
What's wrong with young people working their ways through adversity and growing vs running away when things get tough or things not handed to you on a silver platter?
Open transfer no different than the current culture created with aau basketball.
Re-read what you typed here. Young people need to figure out how to "work their way through adversity" but coaches who would "have to be recruiting their own players constantly" shouldn't have to work through adversity? Why not? We only want the unpaid athletes to have to deal with adversity but the coaches earning millions of dollars per year shouldn't have to? It's bizarre that we (not just you...most people) believe that these athletes get everything "handed to them on a silver platter" but the coaches who are paid millions of dollars, and are far less important, do not.

Remember, the game wouldn't exist without the players. College basketball would be fine, probably just as good as it is now, if coaches' salaries were capped at a couple hundred thousand dollars per year.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

You make valid points, but I can't agree with all of them. Coaches are much more important than you give them credit for. We go to movies primarily because of the people who star in the them but without quality writers and directors (not to mention the more anonymous people behind the scenes), we'd have a bunch of crappy movies and it wouldn't much matter who starred in them.

As for the university presidents, I think you're making it far too personal. It's not about individual power, about them being the Lord of the Manor, as you put it, it's about maintaining some stability in an athletic system that, yes, the schools put a lot of money and resources into. They may be protecting the universities' investments but not, in the vast majority of cases, in the interest of personal power.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

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I wouldn't have a problem with 'letting them play' if they were allowed to transfer without penalty once only. If they have unlimited transfers without penalty you are going to end up with 'mercenaries' who might be at 4 schools in 4 years. That's not good for the players or the schools.
1. I don't have any idea whether it would be good for the players or not but why don't we let them decide what's best for them rather than trying to decide it for them? If I'm a regular college student and I want to transfer 3 times in 4 years, no school tells me I can't or which one I can or can't attend.

2. Don't you think that many schools would be less likely to recruit players they felt were "mercenaries" and likely to stay only 1 year? This would reduce the player's options, basically saying "if you want to transfer, fine, but you have to go to 1 of these less attractive programs." A lot of coaches wouldn't have a lot of tolerance for that.

Bottom line...let the market decide.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:42 PM   #25
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Default Re: Solving the Transfer Question: Let Them Play

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You make valid points, but I can't agree with all of them. Coaches are much more important than you give them credit for. We go to movies primarily because of the people who star in the them but without quality writers and directors (not to mention the more anonymous people behind the scenes), we'd have a bunch of crappy movies and it wouldn't much matter who starred in them.

As for the university presidents, I think you're making it far too personal. It's not about individual power, about them being the Lord of the Manor, as you put it, it's about maintaining some stability in an athletic system that, yes, the schools put a lot of money and resources into. They may be protecting the universities' investments but not, in the vast majority of cases, in the interest of personal power.
But the athletes are not just "the universities' investments." They're not a stock portfolio. They're humans and they're far and away the most important part of the system. If they were just stocks, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But they're people with rights who deserve to be treated with the respect they deserve.
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