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Old 10-11-2015, 06:57 PM   #26
sybarite
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I find it curious how anyone can explain logically how Texas is going to be that much better. Texas didn't beat Baylor at all last year. Texas lost to Iowa State twice. They needed two OT and a lot of fouls called on OU to win at home against OU.

So. Texas took OT to beat a rebuilding Stanford team. Then, they took out a giant in Tennessee, except that Tennessee was only 4-1 having just lost to Chattanooga after wins over powerhouses like Penn, Oral Roberts, Winthrop, and Tennessee State. Very simply, Texas was no match for the typical Stanford or Tennessee teams. Then, they proceed to lose nine conference games. Look back at what Texas actually did.

So far, we have heard Texas recruit enough All-Americans to beat UConn. It's just that they don't play like All-Americans at Texas. They have a bunch of nice guards, and any one of them might have a good game. Mostly, they just play OK. They have a tall post who gives us problems, but not anyone with a tall post. I doubt that she will give us that much of a problem this year.

Texas has a huge hill to climb if you get over their publicity and look at their actual performances. And, they lost the player who was the best that that they had. Neither OU nor Baylor lost a player that was among their top two or three.
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:49 PM   #27
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Texas will have some of the best young players in the big 12 to go along with some good size and height... I think they'll be better then last year. Just like with Texas you never no what OU team will show up, I hope they can win the big 12 it's been a long time since we've won it out right...
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Old 10-11-2015, 09:08 PM   #28
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Someone go look and see how many times a team has lost 4 or fewer games and finished 3rd or worse in the conference.
I did this for us.

The answer is - as expected - Never.

We have had 3 years with 10 teams and 18 games. Here are the results for 3rd place:

2014: 3rd place team had 9 losses
2013: 3rd place team had 7 losses
2012: 3rd place team had 7 losses

Even when we had 12 teams and everyone just played 16 games, the 3rd place team always had 5 or more losses. That is back to 2007.

It is highly unlikely OU will be better and still have a worse record than last year. Those who believe we will finish no better than 3rd are actually saying we will be worse than this past year. If we lose 6, 7, 8, or 9 games this year and finish 3rd, these same people will be frustrated and say "We got worse this year. We lost more games and finished lower in the conference race."

Of course someone may suggest as teams get better they lose MORE games. But I have never heard a coach say "We expect to be better this year so we can have a worse record".
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Old 10-11-2015, 09:18 PM   #29
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I am not predicting how many losses OU will have. For discussion purposes, what would it tell you if Baylor has 2 losses to finish first, Texas has 3 to finish second, and OU has 4 to finish third?
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Old 10-11-2015, 09:50 PM   #30
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I am not predicting how many losses OU will have. For discussion purposes, what would it tell you if Baylor has 2 losses to finish first, Texas has 3 to finish second, and OU has 4 to finish third?
Anything is possible, but that is extremely unlikely to occur. It would mean all 3 teams would have won virtually every game - home and away - against the rest of the league. Those 3 teams will split 6 losses just between themselves. The record suggested leaves room for only 3 other losses.

And that would indicate the rest of the league is far weaker than last year, making it very difficult to evaluate the teams at the top. The rest of the league would have lost 12% more games than last year. Substantially weaker conference.

But my point was not that it couldn't happen, just that it is very unlikely that OU finishes 3rd and yet has fewer than 5 losses.
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:57 AM   #31
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This is quite illogical. You are suggesting OU will be either better or quite a bit better than last year. Yet will also finish worse than last year - likely much worse (2 or 3 or 4 more losses). Texas finished 9-9 last year and third. OU finished 4 games better. For OU to finish third (similar to what Texas did last year) they would need to lose a game to almost every team in the conference. In case that is confusing to some of us that means they are worse - WAY worse than last year - not better - in any way.

Another way to think about it is this. OU only lost 5 games last year. It is almost impossible to lose fewer games (and thus be called better than when they lost 5) yet finish lower than 2nd in a ten team conference with a round robin schedule. Someone go look and see how many times a team has lost 4 or fewer games and finished 3rd or worse in the conference. I seriously doubt it has ever happened.

They split with Texas and Baylor last year. It appears you expect them to lose those games. How could such a thing happen and yet they end up better - or much better than last year???? That is already 4 losses. (Think about what it would mean to lose only 3 of those 4 games - and not lose a game to anyone else.)

If OU finishes 3rd this year that means they are worse than last year. No need to hide in the sand about what some of you are saying.

Some of our posters just do not like OU. Or believe in the OU program.

Here is how I see it. Yes OU may end up 3rd this year. But I also believe they should be better than last year - and may end up 2nd or with some good fortune even 1st. If they are better they will not end up 3rd - or 4th - or last in the conference.
Quite illogical. Not at all. Just because one team in the conference improves does not mean that they will finish higher in the conference than the year before. It depends upon the improvement or lack of, of other teams.

I do believe OU could be better than last year or really, really good. As far as that goes, I believe Baylor and Texas could both be really, really good. I do believe there is a possibility that OU could come in second in the conference but my prediction right now is that it will be Baylor, Texas and OU.

As for your comment later on in this thread that some of the coaches feel OU will do better than some of us do. Yes, they do, but so what? Overall they picked them number 3, just like some of us did. And it really doesn't matter if they had picked them to finish second, these are predictions.

And just because we do not pick them to finish as high as you would pick them, does not mean we are not loyal fans. Just being honest with our thoughts.

This is a place to discuss OU women's basketball. Not agreeing with you does not make me not a loyal fan. THOUGH I will agree it is probably a much bigger deal to you and some of the others than it is to me. I also like other teams in the conference and like to see them do well. I am an OSU and Texas fan and I don't hate Baylor or Kim Mulkey. I prefer to see OU win but if OSU is having a better year and will go further in the conference and NCAA tournament, then I will root for them over OU. That is the only team that I would pull for over OU in certain circumstances and that is in all sports that the two teams compete. WELL, that is in relation to Big 12 teams. My feelings for Nebraska are close to my feelings for OSU, so there might be a time that I would root for Nebraska over OU.

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Old 10-15-2015, 08:34 AM   #32
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Quite illogical. Not at all. Just because one team in the conference improves does not mean that they will finish higher in the conference than the year before. It depends upon the improvement or lack of, of other teams.

I do believe OU could be better than last year or really, really good. As far as that goes, I believe Baylor and Texas could both be really, really good. I do believe there is a possibility that OU could come in second in the conference but my prediction right now is that it will be Baylor, Texas and OU.

As for your comment later on in this thread that some of the coaches feel OU will do better than some of us do. Yes, they do, but so what? Overall they picked them number 3, just like some of us did. And it really doesn't matter if they had picked them to finish second, these are predictions.

And just because we do not pick them to finish as high as you would pick them, does not mean we are not loyal fans. Just being honest with our thoughts.

This is a place to discuss OU women's basketball. Not agreeing with you does not make me not a loyal fan. THOUGH I will agree it is probably a much bigger deal to you and some of the others than it is to me. I also like other teams in the conference and like to see them do well. I am an OSU and Texas fan and I don't hate Baylor or Kim Mulkey. I prefer to see OU win but if OSU is having a better year and will go further in the conference and NCAA tournament, then I will root for them over OU. That is the only team that I would pull for over OU in certain circumstances and that is in all sports that the two teams compete. WELL, that is in relation to Big 12 teams. My feelings for Nebraska are close to my feelings for OSU, so there might be a time that I would root for Nebraska over OU.
Excellent post! I am glad that Baylor and Texas are doing well. That gives the Big 12 credibility. It also is causing Sherri to stay more focused on recruiting and getting better. She is smart enough to see what our competition is doing and she also knows she wants to be right there with them. I think either Texas or Baylor could win a NC in the next 2-4 years if they continue to recruit elite players. OU isn't likely to be a national contender anytime soon but IF we can sign a couple of elite players to go with those we have coming in, who knows!

I have not cheered for any team playing OU but the way you explained when you could, i can see that. Some think you're not a Sooner fan unless you hate all teams and coaches who are direct competition to us. I have never agreed with that. To me it just shows jealousy and immaturity.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:55 AM   #33
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I prefer to see OU win but if OSU is having a better year and will go further in the conference and NCAA tournament, then I will root for them over OU. That is the only team that I would pull for over OU in certain circumstances and that is in all sports that the two teams compete. WELL, that is in relation to Big 12 teams. My feelings for Nebraska are close to my feelings for OSU, so there might be a time that I would root for Nebraska over OU.
So, you are a situational fan?

Despising some coaches is sometimes a matter of character. One is rarely irritated by a loss to UConn or ND. They earn their victories honestly. Can you say the same for Baylor? Is Kim Mulkey a good representative for college athletics?
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:44 AM   #34
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So, you are a situational fan?

Despising some coaches is sometimes a matter of character. One is rarely irritated by a loss to UConn or ND. They earn their victories honestly. Can you say the same for Baylor? Is Kim Mulkey a good representative for college athletics?
Situational fan? Does that make me evil?

WELL, there are some situations, as I said, that I would root for OSU and Nebraska, over OU. If you want to give it that definition, okay. I don't see that that makes me a bad person nor a bad fan. I would prefer those situations not occur. And it is not as much fun to pull for the other two against OU. So, my fandom is not equal among the three, but I wouldn't have any problem with it if it were.

First, I believe Kim Mulkey has some mental health issues. Second, making fun of her or anyone's clothing and appearance is immature and bullying. I don't believe she is constantly cheating because if she were, she would be turned in and sanctioned. I don't worry so much about how she represents college athletics in general as I do how she impacts her players. So, I am not sure she should be coaching young adults; however, I don't hate her, I feel sorry for her. If she shouldn't be coaching young adults, I put that on the administration. And I don't hate the team, so if they win then I don't have a problem depending upon if they beat OU or if a win against someone else puts them ahead of OU, but I feel that with all teams. (with the exceptions regarding OSU and Neb and how good a season OU is having vs whether a loss against OU could keep one of the other two from a championship game or similar situations.)

I haven't walked in Kim's shoes, so I am not going to judge her and certainly
not going to despise her. And you know it is not just Baylor that people have a problem with. I don't know about you, because I can't remember from your postings. Having a rivalry is one thing but just hating another college and their athletic teams is juvenile to say the least. Geno is not exactly my favorite person so not sure I would let a child play for him. However, it is just some things he has done and said and I might feel differently if I knew him better. I think I would probably still have some issues with him but they might not be large enough to matter. He is definitely one of the best coaches in the game. (restricting that to how his players develop and how he coaches a game, not including his impact on players because as I noted, I don't have enough info to know).

Probably need to edit this but I don't have time, so hopefully it's ok or not too bad.
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:18 PM   #35
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As for your comment later on in this thread that some of the coaches feel OU will do better than some of us do. Yes, they do, but so what?
My point (which you may have misunderstood) was not that "some" coaches voted us 1st or 2nd, but that over half of the coaches who could vote for us picked us to finish 1st or 2nd. Only nine could vote for us (Sherri could not) and at least 5 selected us 1st or 2nd, and no more than 4 selected us lower than 2nd.

You are right - and I even mentioned it - it really does not matter. It is just a preseason poll. Last year (if I recall correctly) Texas was picked to finish 1st. But it did not play out that way. They lost 9 games. Nine!

I do have a hard time understanding pulling against OU no matter who they play. If OSU (or whoever) needs us to lose to make them look better, I still want OU to win. I support OU not OSU. Every time they play.

I do often support OSU (and Texas) when they play teams other than OU.

And obviously you don't have to agree with me to be a fan. Being a fan is measured by some other things. And I have no doubt you consider yourself as a fan at some level.
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Old 10-16-2015, 12:37 PM   #36
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I would like to see OU do good and win the the big 12 every year... It just hasn't happened in a long time.

Conference tournament champions
2002, 2004, 2006, 2007
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2001, 2002, 2006
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Old 10-16-2015, 12:49 PM   #37
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I would like to see OU do good and win the the big 12 every year... It just hasn't happened in a long time.

Conference tournament champions
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Conference regular season champions
2001, 2002, 2006
It's because Kim cheats and all refs hate us.
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Old 10-16-2015, 02:22 PM   #38
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It's because Kim cheats and all refs hate us.
I knew it! How in the world did you verify all this Norm? :)
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Old 10-16-2015, 04:07 PM   #39
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I think Baylor will win the conference. I'm picking OU third. Texas will be good. Sometimes it takes talent to develop. The addition of Tina Thompson will be helpful for the Texas players.
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Old 10-16-2015, 04:38 PM   #40
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I knew it! How in the world did you verify all this Norm? :)
If you read some of the posts on here, it's an obvious conclusion. :)
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:17 PM   #41
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Kim is a very good tactician. From the hack a shack thing she pulled on Courtney to the offense that Baylor runs that gets players open for very easy shots.

She should have had consequences for the illegal things she did while recruiting Griner and others but I think I blame the NCAA more than Kim. The NCAA is clearly dedicated to keeping the teams playing in the big events that make them the most money.

As far as her courtside antics some but probably not all is an attempt to work the officials and it works particularly in Waco where the crowd lends an assist. Digger Phelps was the world's best at that. It was all non-verbal with him. He was so good that he convinced the crowd that the officials had just pulled off the worst theft since the Brink's robery. He didn't say a word just actions. Neve saw him T'd up. Kim is not nearly that smooth.

As for Geno, your daughters could probably play for him if they have some thickness of skin and a strong self image. He demands that his players become better players than the limits they place on themself. I never understood the significance of that before but that is the single most thing that makes him the coach that he is.

I'm sure that all coaches drive to get improved play from their players but the difference with Geno is that he gets the players to become the motivating force to improve and that is more important than becoming the best you are capable of being just because the coach is pushing them. I'm sure that all players want to be the best they can be but Geno's players want to be better than the best they believe possible.
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:03 PM   #42
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1. Baylor
2. OU
3. TCU/TX ?

BUT.......I think if we play like I think we can play (unlike the end of last season) it's OU #1!!!!
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:04 PM   #43
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My biggest worry about Texas is their height. That really gave us trouble last year in the Big-12 tournament.

But we handled it well in the two regular season games. The major problem we had in Austin when they beat us was that almost all our players fouled out.
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:12 PM   #44
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My biggest worry about Texas is their height. That really gave us trouble last year in the Big-12 tournament.

But we handled it well in the two regular season games. The major problem we had in Austin when they beat us was that almost all our players fouled out.
After players wrote their names on a board, I don't think fouls will be a problem this year. :)
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