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Old 06-04-2020, 09:21 AM   #1
thebigabd
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Default Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

I was listening to something on the radio this morning that really hit home for me.... it was actually a conversation about Vic Fangio, and how a lot of times white people aren't aware of or can't see racism because they aren't the victim... And they suggested to ask your black friends about it.

But that made me think of something else.... I have never felt more disconnected with other Americans than I do right now. Ever. I am a liberal guy, but I feel like I just can't relate as a person at all to Trump people...

These questions I am asking come from a good place. I really want to understand. I want to understand my co-workers, my neighbors, my family, etc better. I don't want to fight with you, or them. I want to understand. I feel like we are speaking different languages, or come from different planets. I never felt like that under Bush, Clinton, older Bush, Obama, etc. This seems to be a unique Trump thing (more on that later).

A.) Why do you like him? Not policies, I am talking about him. Do you believe he's a good man? A good person? Does he have a good soul? Is he smart? Is he wise?

B.) I was renting a Uhaul the other day, and saw something that i have been seeing more and more of... The place where I rented the Uhaul had pictures of Donald Trump all over the office... I was looking at a house with my brother in law, and we went into the garage and there were Trump pictures, Trump flags, and Trump stuff all over the place... Never seen anything like that before in my life. I keep seeing more and more of this... his ardent supporters seemingly worship him, like a cult. I've seen interviews where people were asked "is there ANYTHING he can do, or say, to make you not support him"... and they flat out said, "no".

I have family members who have created anonymous twitter accounts to get on media and constantly praise him. They do it in secret. I am not even supposed to know about it. A concerned cousin sent it to me, and I got on there and my uncle, who I respected, is on there saying things I could never imagine him saying... Things I am ashamed he believes and says. But, at the end of the day, all in support of Trump.

I am seeing other family members go down this path now.... everything is a conspiracy theory, believe nothing, Trump is almost like this savior like figure, etc.

It's less about Republicans vs Democrats, and more about Trump or Non-Trump... I haven't seen anything like that before in my lifetime either. It's not about the party or the policies, its him or not him.

Are you guys seeing this out there? What is about him that inspires this kind of thing?
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

It's become a cult of personality. I don't think Trump is the anti-Christ by any stretch, but November worries me a great deal. I think he'll be defeated, but I worry about what his demise will do to the country and his over-zealous base. There have always been lunatics among us, but social media has provided them a platform. A megaphone, if you will.

I actually like a lot of the stuff Trump did. He tore up a lot of the ridiculous red tape and brought a crapload of cash back into the country to be taxed. But what he's done to the Presidency will take years to untangle. It may never be the same. He's never understood the power of his pulpit. He's never grasped just how much his words matter from behind that seal.

I just can't believe that the best the Democrats could do was Joe Biden.
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:41 AM   #3
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

You don't think Obama has a cult-like following?

There is a freakin' gas station/convenience store named after him.

The short answer to all your questions is that I think it just represents the growing divide in the parties and country. Trump, given the the things he says, probably impacts some of the things you mentioned as much as anything. He kind of plays into being larger than life.

And on the conspriacy theory stuff, you mean like when the libs claimed 9/11 was an inside job? I find it MUCH more believable that the media is full of sh*t, which Trump has definitely shown a light on. Printing pictures and claiming they represent one thing, when they actually don't. The constant spin they put on things. And that is both sides, conservative and liberal media. You are in Tulsa, I find the Tulsa World to be absolute garbage over the last few years.

The media would be better if they simply reported the FACTS, and let the people reading interpret how they will. I don't need to read their spin on things, with their bias.
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

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You don't think Obama has a cult-like following?

There is a freakin' gas station/convenience store named after him.

The short answer to all your questions is that I think it just represents the growing divide in the parties and country. Trump, given the the things he says, probably impacts some of the things you mentioned as much as anything. He kind of plays into being larger than life.

And on the conspriacy theory stuff, you mean like when the libs claimed 9/11 was an inside job? I find it MUCH more believable that the media is full of sh*t, which Trump has definitely shown a light on. Printing pictures and claiming they represent one thing, when they actually don't. The constant spin they put on things. And that is both sides, conservative and liberal media. You are in Tulsa, I find the Tulsa World to be absolute garbage over the last few years.

The media would be better if they simply reported the FACTS, and let the people reading interpret how they will. I don't need to read their spin on things, with their bias.
So you believe he is a good man? A smart man? A wise man? You believe that he has a good soul?

I mean, if I hang pictures of someone up in my office, it probably means i greatly admire them. What do you admire about him as a person?
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

I agree with a lot of what WT has to say. As a former journalist, the downfall of that discipline is heartbreaking. When you don't know who to trust you'll go anywhere in pursuit of "truth".

And there are some DARK rabbit holes out there.
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

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I agree with a lot of what WT has to say. As a former journalist, the downfall of that discipline is heartbreaking. When you don't know who to trust you'll go anywhere in pursuit of "truth".

And there are some DARK rabbit holes out there.
Very dark rabbit holes... However, if I may, let me throw something out there.

It's one thing to not trust the source of the news, it's an entirely other thing to not accept something as true that is right in front of you.

For example, lets take just one Trump lie, out of the thousands, lets use one as an example.... Trump denied knowing anything about a payment to Stormy Daniels, he said that on camera. Then a video got released later that shows him talking to Michael Cohen about making a payment to Stormy Daniels. He knew about it. He lied, got caught on camera AND audio tape lying, etc.

Yet, his supporters don't even acknowledge that he lies... It's fine if you don't trust Anderson Cooper, but in lots of these cases you have Trump dead to rights in a lie, but it has little to no impact. From my personal experience, it has ZERO impact. They won't acknowledge that he lies (present tense), that he lied (past tense), or that he will lie again (future tense).. It just goes into the folder of "I don't care", or "the media said this or that", or whatever...

I mean, even if we all just acknowledged the things that are right there in plain sight, you should have lots of people in agreement that the guy is a liar. Yet, we don't... That's not a media thing. That's delusional thing.... A sticking your head in the stand thing... I don't really know how else to describe it.
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

I suppose some people have a cult like belief in Obama. I don't have any pictures of former presidents hanging in my house but I liked every president who has served in my lifetime better than Trump. Nixon would be a close race but he edged out Trump for last place.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

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I don't think Trump is the anti-Christ
He is.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:56 PM   #9
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.....but I liked every president who has served in my lifetime better than Trump. Nixon would be a close race but he edged out Trump for last place.
Liked them as people? Cool.

I get not liking Trump as a person. I do. But his results on the agenda items that are important to me have been through the roof. As somebody that doesn't live my life or make decisions based on what POTUS says or how he acts, the agenda stuff is the most important to me. The job stuff. The standing up to foreign countries and companies so that the US isnn't being taken advantage of. The judge appointments. All of that stuff matters more to me than the other stuff. Some of you act as if we haven't had liars in the White House before. Both Clintons? Many of you think Bush outright lied about Iraq. Obama lied (google it). It's politics, people lie. That was one reason I was happy to have a non-lifelong politician voted in. I honestly hope that continues.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

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The standing up to foreign countries and companies so that the US isnn't being taken advantage of.
Can you expand on that? Which ones?

Quote:
The judge appointments.
Because you want a conservative interpretation of the law, I assume?

Quote:
But his results on the agenda items that are important to me have been through the roof.
Which of his accomplishments changed/improved your life at all, if you don't mind me asking.
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:13 PM   #11
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

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Liked them as people? Cool.

I get not liking Trump as a person. I do. But his results on the agenda items that are important to me have been through the roof. As somebody that doesn't live my life or make decisions based on what POTUS says or how he acts, the agenda stuff is the most important to me. The job stuff. The standing up to foreign countries and companies so that the US isnn't being taken advantage of. The judge appointments. All of that stuff matters more to me than the other stuff. Some of you act as if we haven't had liars in the White House before. Both Clintons? Many of you think Bush outright lied about Iraq. Obama lied (google it). It's politics, people lie. That was one reason I was happy to have a non-lifelong politician voted in. I honestly hope that continues.
This is where I am. I don't particularly care for Trump as a person. And yes he does lie, exaggerate, embellish etc. But many other POTUS lied constantly....and by lying I mean misrepresent, misdirect, omit transparency, and/or refuse to answer direct questions. Trump just sucks at it.

I like most of his agenda from a policy standpoint, but I wish he was far more civil at times as well as a better presenter. He is thin-skinned and holds grudges. And he far too often gets in twitter spats over stupid sh!t that means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

IMO, the reason his core base supports him is because he doesn't back down. If you come after him, he will hit back twice as hard. He calls outs most journalists (who are cleverly disguised as activists) for what they are....narrative drivers who want to stop all of his policy pursuits. If Trump walked on water, the next day's headline would be "Trump can't swim".

As I've said before, Trump isn't really a Republican or a conservative necessarily.....Trump is Trump. This is why the political establishment has such a hard time figuring out how he operates.
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

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This is where I am. I don't particularly care for Trump as a person. And yes he does lie, exaggerate, embellish etc. But many other POTUS lied constantly....and by lying I mean misrepresent, misdirect, omit transparency, and/or refuse to answer direct questions. Trump just sucks at it.

I like most of his agenda from a policy standpoint, but I wish he was far more civil at times as well as a better presenter. He is thin-skinned and holds grudges. And he far too often gets in twitter spats over stupid sh!t that means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

IMO, the reason his core base supports him is because he doesn't back down. If you come after him, he will hit back twice as hard. He calls outs most journalists (who are cleverly disguised as activists) for what they are....narrative drivers who want to stop all of his policy pursuits. If Trump walked on water, the next day's headline would be "Trump can't swim".

As I've said before, Trump isn't really a Republican or a conservative necessarily.....Trump is Trump. This is why the political establishment has such a hard time figuring out how he operates.
How/who does he hit twice as hard? Not twitter spats & lies, but actual action.
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:21 PM   #13
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How/who does he hit twice as hard? Not twitter spats & lies, but actual action.
See Russia collusion deception/hoax. He went after specific politicians who perpetuated the conspiracy and Justice Department officials who were bad actors/accomplices in the process. They accused him of everything from being a Russian agent to actively sustaining an ongoing fraud in the electoral process (working behind the scenes with Russia to rig the election). Then when those accusations failed, he was accused of obstructing justice. He was deliberate and consistent in calling out the bullsh!t, fallacies, and misrepresentations.
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

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Very dark rabbit holes... However, if I may, let me throw something out there.

It's one thing to not trust the source of the news, it's an entirely other thing to not accept something as true that is right in front of you.

For example, lets take just one Trump lie, out of the thousands, lets use one as an example.... Trump denied knowing anything about a payment to Stormy Daniels, he said that on camera. Then a video got released later that shows him talking to Michael Cohen about making a payment to Stormy Daniels. He knew about it. He lied, got caught on camera AND audio tape lying, etc.

Yet, his supporters don't even acknowledge that he lies... It's fine if you don't trust Anderson Cooper, but in lots of these cases you have Trump dead to rights in a lie, but it has little to no impact. From my personal experience, it has ZERO impact. They won't acknowledge that he lies (present tense), that he lied (past tense), or that he will lie again (future tense).. It just goes into the folder of "I don't care", or "the media said this or that", or whatever...

I mean, even if we all just acknowledged the things that are right there in plain sight, you should have lots of people in agreement that the guy is a liar. Yet, we don't... That's not a media thing. That's delusional thing.... A sticking your head in the stand thing... I don't really know how else to describe it.
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

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Can you expand on that? Which ones? China, russia, USMCA (which libs said was impossible)



Because you want a conservative interpretation of the law, I assume? Yes




Which of his accomplishments changed/improved your life at all, if you don't mind me asking. Better economy more money from investments, no obama mandate BS (didnt affect me personally tho), tax cuts, ect.
See above
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:27 PM   #16
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He is.
based on.... media's orangemanbad-ing?
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:28 PM   #17
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See Russia collusion deception/hoax. He went after specific politicians who perpetuated the conspiracy and Justice Department officials who were bad actors/accomplices in the process. They accused him of everything from being a Russian agent to actively sustaining an ongoing fraud in the electoral process (working behind the scenes with Russia to rig the election). Then when those accusations failed, he was accused of obstructing justice. He was deliberate and consistent in calling out the bullsh!t, fallacies, and misrepresentations.
He wasn’t exonerated from obstruction. There wasn’t any evidence found of collusion but:
https://ichef-bbci-co-uk.cdn.ampproj..._640_2x-nc.png
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Old 06-04-2020, 05:28 PM   #18
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He wasn’t exonerated from obstruction. There wasn’t any evidence found of collusion but:
https://ichef-bbci-co-uk.cdn.ampproj..._640_2x-nc.png
Innocent
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Old 06-04-2020, 05:36 PM   #19
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Innocent
Lol sure.
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:37 PM   #20
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See above
Yep. I'd add that jobs and economy means less government money going to welfare and more going towards other areas. Infrastructure is still a huge need.

I think the lowering the black unemployment rate to the lowest it's ever been is HUGE! A big part of all this stuff we're talking about with race and what not, some of it traces back to more blacks being impoverished. Getting black people working and making living wages sure sounds like a better way to fix some of these problems then standing on street corners with signs or looting, wouldn't you agree?

I'll never get why black people don't like Trump. He has been huge for them. Mexicans? lol, sure, the boarder. But Trump has done a lot for black America, that many of them simply refuse to see.
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:14 AM   #21
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I was listening to something on the radio this morning that really hit home for me.... it was actually a conversation about Vic Fangio, and how a lot of times white people aren't aware of or can't see racism because they aren't the victim... And they suggested to ask your black friends about it.

But that made me think of something else.... I have never felt more disconnected with other Americans than I do right now. Ever. I am a liberal guy, but I feel like I just can't relate as a person at all to Trump people...

These questions I am asking come from a good place. I really want to understand. I want to understand my co-workers, my neighbors, my family, etc better. I don't want to fight with you, or them. I want to understand. I feel like we are speaking different languages, or come from different planets. I never felt like that under Bush, Clinton, older Bush, Obama, etc. This seems to be a unique Trump thing (more on that later).

A.) Why do you like him? Not policies, I am talking about him. Do you believe he's a good man? A good person? Does he have a good soul? Is he smart? Is he wise?

B.) I was renting a Uhaul the other day, and saw something that i have been seeing more and more of... The place where I rented the Uhaul had pictures of Donald Trump all over the office... I was looking at a house with my brother in law, and we went into the garage and there were Trump pictures, Trump flags, and Trump stuff all over the place... Never seen anything like that before in my life. I keep seeing more and more of this... his ardent supporters seemingly worship him, like a cult. I've seen interviews where people were asked "is there ANYTHING he can do, or say, to make you not support him"... and they flat out said, "no".

I have family members who have created anonymous twitter accounts to get on media and constantly praise him. They do it in secret. I am not even supposed to know about it. A concerned cousin sent it to me, and I got on there and my uncle, who I respected, is on there saying things I could never imagine him saying... Things I am ashamed he believes and says. But, at the end of the day, all in support of Trump.

I am seeing other family members go down this path now.... everything is a conspiracy theory, believe nothing, Trump is almost like this savior like figure, etc.

It's less about Republicans vs Democrats, and more about Trump or Non-Trump... I haven't seen anything like that before in my lifetime either. It's not about the party or the policies, its him or not him.

Are you guys seeing this out there? What is about him that inspires this kind of thing?
A. I know you said not policies, but my exerience is most people like him because of his policies. But I don't like him personally. I understand him and like certain traits but overall I do not htink he is a good man. I like that he really doesn't care what people think. I like that he is the most pro life president ever. I like that he is pro Chrsitian (realizing that he is pandering to an extent). I like that he attacks the media for their lies. I like that he doesn't back down. I don't like how he personally attacks people. I think there is a more dignified way to do it...but that isn't him. He isn't changing just because he is president, and there is somethign refreshing about that.

B. Where do you live? I'm guessing if you were in the NE or california, you would have seen Obama pictures everywhere. Or if Bernie were ever elected, his picture would be everywhere.
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:16 AM   #22
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I'll never get why black people don't like Trump.
It' pretty easy to understand.
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:53 AM   #23
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It' pretty easy to understand.
Explain it to me.
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?

I’ve got a better question for the Trump haters. Why do you think Hillary should have been elected president? A quick Google search of the Clintons and their corrupt rise to the top of the Democratic Party should tell you everything you need to know about why I voted for Trump. Donald Trump is his own worst enemy sometimes on a personal level. I get that. But everything he has done or been accused of pales in comparison to Hillary Clinton and her sexual predator husband.

I’ve got a similar question about Joe Biden. He’s more likable on a personal level than Trump. But he scares the heck out of me when I picture him in the Oval Office. Biden might have been a good candidate for the job once, but not now. His well known gaffes and frequent lapses mentally, seem to suggest that he wakes up in a new world nearly every day. Is he your idea of the leader this country needs? Do you hate Trump so much you would be willing to replace him with a senile old man who may not be fit for the job mentally or physically? Thanks but no thanks!

I have said this before and I’ll say it again. I’m a lifelong Democrat. I voted for Bill Clinton once. But, I will continue to vote for the best person (man or woman) for the job, until the leaders of my own party nominates someone worthy of my vote. Like it or not, Donald Trump will get my vote again in November!
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:54 AM   #25
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Lol sure.
Wait, was he found guilty?? im confused. I swore he was found innocent....
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