Sophomore Class - Page 6

CoachTalk · 01-12-2021, 03:37 PM

I will say I dont think retirement is too far off.

WichitaSooner · 01-12-2021, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigabd

Yea, that would be a consideration for sure.

When I say straighten up the program, I mean hopefully make us more competitive in the league... Which is the primary objective.

I love how you act like your personal, arbitrary goal is, as an accepted matter of fact, the primary objective. I’d posit that if given a choice, 90 percent of college basketball fans, coaches, and players would consider making the NCAA tournament more important than conference record. But it is well established that you and a few others are determined to pretend like nonconference games don’t exist and have no value.

skyvue · 01-12-2021, 03:52 PM

When Sampson was our coach, tourney performance was all that mattered (to a certain faction of fans). I think most of those quick to critique are quite nimble and could shift focus on the fly.

SoonerBounce13 · 01-12-2021, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCSooners

Again if the job comes open hit him up. I'm not pushing LK out the door if he's retiring in 2-3 years since he's done a great job getting OU back on track & still doing a solid job.

You have a different definition of solid. I’d save average to below average

thebigabd · 01-12-2021, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyvue

When Sampson was our coach, tourney performance was all that mattered (to a certain faction of fans). I think most of those quick to critique are quite nimble and could shift focus on the fly.

I have long argued that the conference tournament holds special significance because tournaments are how champions are crowned in basketball. The national champion is decided by tournament. Automatic bids to the NCAA Tournament are awarded to conference tournament champions. They don't name a regular season national champion....

When Iowa State fans go into their arena.... They see cut down nets, championship rings, and championship banners hanging from the rafters when from when they won the conference tournament in 2019, 2017, 2015, and 2014.

OU has not hung any conference related material since 2003. OSU has more recent hardware than we do.

So you guys can brag about our non-conference championships all you want, but it doesn't matter... Nobody brags about their random non-cons. And OU's aren't that impressive anyway.

skyvue · 01-12-2021, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

You have a different definition of solid. I’d save average to below average

Check to see how many programs have been to the NCAA tourney at least seven out of the past eight seasons (I'm counting last year's tourney that didn't happen, because OU was going to be in it).

And then go through and see how many of those teams played the level of non-conference foes that Coach Kruger has consistently scheduled. Eliminate those who didn't.

Then go through and see how many of the remaining teams played in a top 3 conference year in and year out. Eliminate the ones who didn't.

Next, eliminate those teams who didn't make the Sweet Sixteen.

And then, eliminate those teams that didn't make it to the Final Four. Your list will now be very short.

Finally, check the dictionary for its definition of "average" ("below average" is not even worthy of a response).

skyvue · 01-12-2021, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigabd

I have long argued that the conference tournament holds special significance because tournaments are how champions are crowned in basketball.

For major conferences, conference tourneys are about money and nothing else (except perhaps sneaking another conference team into the tourney, though that will often put another conference team at risk of falling out). For mid-majors and below, they're about making the tourney.

Regular season championships are what any sensible fan cares about (and yes, I'm aware that OU doesn't have many of those, either) because they are earned over the course of eight or nine weeks of consistently good play. Conference tourneys can be won by a so-so team on three-day hot streak.

thebigabd · 01-12-2021, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyvue

For major conferences, conference tourneys are about money and nothing else (except perhaps sneaking another conference team into the tourney, though that will often put another conference team at risk of falling out). For mid-majors and below, they're about making the tourney.

Regular season championships are what any sensible fan cares about (and yes, I'm aware that OU doesn't have many of those, either) because they are earned over the course of eight or nine weeks of consistently good play. Conference tourneys can be won by a so-so team on three-day hot streak.

That's ridiculous, and you don't translate the same logic to the national championship. The NCAA Tournament does not always crown the best team for the exact reasons you stated, yet, winning is the pinnacle of achievement. You are considered the NATIONAL CHAMPION whether you were the best team that year or not.

Regular season games are also impacted by a number of variables that sway who the best team is... such as home courts, luck in scheduling, home cooking from officials, random explosions by crap teams on their home court, etc.

Having the best regular season record is a great thing.... But to crown someone a champion based on that record isn't done ANYWHERE, in ANY sport.

The best regular season record in the NBA wins you nothing.
The best regular season record in the NFL wins you nothing.
The best regular season record in college basketball wins you nothing.
The best regular season record in the NHL, MLB, MLS, etc win you nothing.

In the NBA, you have to win the playoffs. In the NFL, same thing. To win the college football championship, you have to win the national championship game in a playoff. Etc.

Only in this ONE instance are fans, for whatever reason, trying to assign a championship to someone based on their overall record. It's completely absurd and without equal.

I originally thought it was something the Kansas' of the world cooked up to reward themselves for when they didn't win the tournament.

WichitaSooner · 01-12-2021, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigabd

That's ridiculous, and you don't translate the same logic to the national championship. The NCAA Tournament does not always crown the best team for the exact reasons you stated, yet, winning is the pinnacle of achievement. You are considered the NATIONAL CHAMPION whether you were the best team that year or not.

Regular season games are also impacted by a number of variables that sway who the best team is... such as home courts, luck in scheduling, home cooking from officials, random explosions by crap teams on their home court, etc.

Having the best regular season record is a great thing.... But to crown someone a champion based on that record isn't done ANYWHERE, in ANY sport.

The best regular season record in the NBA wins you nothing.
The best regular season record in the NFL wins you nothing.
The best regular season record in college basketball wins you nothing.
The best regular season record in the NHL, MLB, MLS, etc win you nothing.

In the NBA, you have to win the playoffs. In the NFL, same thing. To win the college football championship, you have to win the national championship game in a playoff. Etc.

Only in this ONE instance are fans, for whatever reason, trying to assign a championship to someone based on their overall record. It's completely absurd and without equal.

I originally thought it was something the Kansas' of the world cooked up to reward themselves for when they didn't win the tournament.

This is a laughable position. No one who understands sports would think that a three day tournament is more important than a season long accomplishment. As sky noted, for low majors and one-bid leagues, yes, the conference tournament is more important. But if you asked every coach in a power five conference whether they would rather win the regular season title or the conference tourney, it would truly be a unanimous vote in favor of the former.

SoonerBounce13 · 01-12-2021, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyvue

Check to see how many programs have been to the NCAA tourney at least seven out of the past eight seasons (I'm counting last year's tourney that didn't happen, because OU was going to be in it).

And then go through and see how many of those teams played the level of non-conference foes that Coach Kruger has consistently scheduled. Eliminate those who didn't.

Then go through and see how many of the remaining teams played in a top 3 conference year in and year out. Eliminate the ones who didn't.

Next, eliminate those teams who didn't make the Sweet Sixteen.

And then, eliminate those teams that didn't make it to the Final Four. Your list will now be very short.

Finally, check the dictionary for its definition of "average" ("below average" is not even worthy of a response).

Losing the same amount of games that you win is average lot solid

hoopsaustin · 01-12-2021, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaSooner

This is a laughable position. No one who understands sports would think that a three day tournament is more important than a season long accomplishment. As sky noted, for low majors and one-bid leagues, yes, the conference tournament is more important. But if you asked every coach in a power five conference whether they would rather win the regular season title or the conference tourney, it would truly be a unanimous vote in favor of the former.

I prefer to win reg season, conf tourney, and natty..

SoonerBounce13 · 01-12-2021, 06:14 PM

Yeah I’ve always preferred a regular season champ to the conference tournament champ

vbdad · 01-12-2021, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachTalk

I will say I dont think retirement is too far off.

I agree.

BCSooners · 01-12-2021, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

You have a different definition of solid. I’d save average to below average

Lol tell that to the 80% of P5 teams who’d swap the past 8 years with OU.

SoonerBounce13 · 01-13-2021, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCSooners

Lol tell that to the 80% of P5 teams who’d swap the past 8 years with OU.

80% of power 5 teams would want to finish with a losing conference record?
I don't think so

I'm done with this topic...it isn't constructive anymore. I think a change has been needed for awhile now. Y'all don't. Just know that OU is missing out on trying to regain fans during the next few years when the Thunder will be tanking. Keeping the status quo will continue to result in the status quo of fan support. We are a middle of the road team under kruger and will continue to be so

BCSooners · 01-13-2021, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerBounce13

80% of power 5 teams would want to finish with a losing conference record?
I don't think so

I'm done with this topic...it isn't constructive anymore. I think a change has been needed for awhile now. Y'all don't. Just know that OU is missing out on trying to regain fans during the next few years when the Thunder will be tanking. Keeping the status quo will continue to result in the status quo of fan support. We are a middle of the road team under kruger and will continue to be so

80% of P5 teams would like a FF, SS, & make the tournament 7 of 8 years.