Does Mayo, Brand, Collison, and Kaman bring Dallas back to the top?

[campbest]

Big, you're taking grenades in the trenches right now...time to retreat.

[thebigabd]

Chandler has played for so many teams due to a combination of injuries and being on multiple teams that were trying to avoid or minimize the luxury tax. Dallas let him walk because they elected to save cap space on Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, and Chris Paul instead of giving a long-term deal to an injury prone Chandler; however, Cuban did offer Chandler a one-year, $20 million contract. A year later, Chris Kaman gets one-year, $8 million because he's nowhere near as good.

Agree to disagree.

Kaman has lead feet. He's doesn't cover nearly as much ground as Chandler and has a much harder time staying in front of smaller players. Nonetheless, he's a decent post defender overall. He's just nothing close to the game-changing defensive force that Chandler is.

Totally disagree that Kaman has lead feet. Good defender, not great. Also a good scorer (especially in the right situation), good passer, good free throw shooter.

See what I am getting at?

List of things Kaman is good at
Scoring
Defending
Passing
Free Throw Shooting

List of things Chandler is good at
Defense
Dunking

Now, perhaps you want to say that Chandler is SO FREAKING GOOD at defense that it doesnt matter that he sucks at everything else, and thats fine. But the original arguement here is that Kaman will be more productive than Chandler, which is 100% true.

The Knicks were 10th in defensive efficiency when D'Antoni resigned. Thus, Tyson Chandler transformed a team that was 21st in defensive efficiency into a Top 10 defense despite having a coach with a "terrible defensive system." That's remarkable. Thanks for supporting my argument.

Lol, geez.

Big, you're taking grenades in the trenches right now...time to retreat.

I can't believe we are talking about a guy who has career averages of 8 points, 8 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 0.6 steals, 1.4 blocks per game as some kind of elite player. This is also a guy who has played for 6 teams in 11 years, and even after winning a championship Dallas only wanted him for one season.

[bocabull]

Kaman = Gortat. Puts up some nice meaningless numbers but adds very little value.

[One More Rebound]

Originally Posted by bocabull

Kaman = Gortat. Puts up some nice meaningless numbers but adds very little value.

Marcin Gortat, the quietest 16PPG scorer in the NBA. It will be interesting to see what numbers Marcin puts up now that Nash plays for LA...

[Sam]

I'm curious and too lazy to google, but has Kaman ever even been on a playoff team? I'll take my answer off the air.

[One More Rebound]

Once.

[Smash Williams]

Originally Posted by thebigabd

Agree to disagree.

Again, if Chandler isn't a vastly superior player, why is Chris Kaman stuck with a one-year deal worth $8 million while Chandler banked a four-year, $58 million deal last offseason?

You can't simply chalk it up to health concerns: Kaman has missed 75 games over the last three seasons (with seven of those games missed resulting from the Hornets holding him out while trying to trade him), while Chandler missed 76 games in the three seasons prior to signing with New York.

Kaman is 30 years old, meaning he should be in the prime of his career, so age isn't an issue (Chandler was 29 when he signed last year).

Kaman has nine years of experience in the league, almost exclusively as a starter, and has been everything from the #1 to the #4 or #5 scorer on a team, so it's not as if he some young player who's only been able to showcase himself in limited minutes.

It's not as if there weren't a lot of teams willing to spend this summer. Numerous free agents have received much bigger contracts than what Kaman got from Dallas. Compared to other bigs on the market--like Asik, Hibbert, McGee, and Lopez--Kaman is playing for peanuts.

Just give me one reasonable explanation for why Kaman's contract is pocket change compared to Chandler's, outside of the apparent reality that absolutely no one in the league thinks Kaman's value is anywhere close to Chandler's. Why are you the only one who can see that Kaman is better than Chandler?

Originally Posted by thebigabd

Totally disagree that Kaman has lead feet. Good defender, not great. Also a good scorer (especially in the right situation), good passer, good free throw shooter.

See what I am getting at?

List of things Kaman is good at
Scoring
Defending
Passing
Free Throw Shooting

List of things Chandler is good at
Defense
Dunking

Now, perhaps you want to say that Chandler is SO FREAKING GOOD at defense that it doesnt matter that he sucks at everything else, and thats fine. But the original arguement here is that Kaman will be more productive than Chandler, which is 100% true.

List of things Dwight Howard is good at
Scoring
Defending

Kaman must be "more productive" than Dwight Howard as well, since Howard isn't good at as many random things. Unfortunately, this premise of your productivity argument seems to ignore the fact that not all of those skills should be weighted equally in assessing a center's productivity. For example, free throw shooting isn't all that valuable for a big man who can't even get to the foul line.

Originally Posted by thebigabd

I can't believe we are talking about a guy who has career averages of 8 points, 8 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 0.6 steals, 1.4 blocks per game as some kind of elite player.

First of all, if you haven't learned anything about how bogus, misleading, and hollow those box score stats can be, there's no hope. Besides, I don't understand the point of posting the career averages of an 11-year player who entered the league straight out of high school, since what Tyson Chandler did is a 19-year-old rookie isn't representative of what he is now.

Secondly, I don't recall classifying Chandler as an "elite player," only an elite defender. He's not on the same level as Howard or Bynum, but he's at least a couple of steps above Kaman.

This is ultimately about how little you value anything that doesn't show up in a basic box score and how much you overvalue quantity over quality with respect to those stats. What does the category of steals measure, other than a combination of athleticism and the propensity to gamble? Russell Westbrook averaged 1.7 steals per game, and Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry averaged 1.5 steals per game...and they were all bad defenders. Blocks? Kevin Garnett and Tyson Chandler can't be that good on the defensive end because they prefer to hold their defensive position and contest shots without leaving their team's defense vulnerable instead of leaving their feet, constantly biting on pump fakes (hello, Serge), and giving up a ton of offensive rebounds due to not being in position to block out and protect the boards? And Chandler must not be that great of a rebounder if he only averages 8 game for his career, right? Except that he's only 10th, 20th, and 12th all-time in career offensive, defensive, and total rebounding %, respectively.

Originally Posted by thebigabd

This is also a guy who has played for 6 teams in 11 years, and even after winning a championship Dallas only wanted him for one season.

Again, you're making a gross oversimplification of the situation that demonstrates an alarming lack of understanding. You're treating a one-year, $20 million offer as some sort of slap in the face. Tyson Chandler is really good, but he's not as great--or as healthy, historically speaking--as Deron Williams or Dwight Howard, both of whom Dallas believed they had a good chance of acquiring by preserving cap space for this summer. Dallas wanted the option of being able to make a run at one of those elite free agents this summer, or to re-sign Chandler if they missed out. Chandler chose the long-term deal instead.

Before the beginning of the season, ESPN's 91 NBA experts rated Tyson Chandler #37 in the league; Kaman was #88. I cite that not as a source of authority on the matter, but as an illustration that I'm not making any radical argument by suggesting that Chandler is substantially more valuable than Kaman. Keep in mind that these rankings were before Chandler's DPOY season. Late this season, SI's Zach Lowe--one of the most astute writers covering the league--even went so far as to state that "there is a very strong argument that Chandler is one of the 20 best players in the league."

Perhaps Chandler isn't Top 20, but there is no doubt that Chris Kaman isn't even in the discussion.

[Smash Williams]

Originally Posted by bocabull

Kaman = Gortat. Puts up some nice meaningless numbers but adds very little value.

That's an interesting comparison, in terms of productivity. I'd definitely take Gortat over Kaman, but either way, no team is winning a championship with either of those guys as its 2nd-best player. They're solid role players, not game-changers.

[Smash Williams]

Originally Posted by One More Rebound

Marcin Gortat, the quietest 16PPG scorer in the NBA. It will be interesting to see what numbers Marcin puts up now that Nash plays for LA...

Dragic is a good replacement, but I imagine his numbers will still take a hit because Nash was that good. Gortat probably still gets 12-13 PPG, as Dragic likes to run a lot of pick-and-roll as well.

[thebigabd]

Again, if Chandler isn't a vastly superior player, why is Chris Kaman stuck with a one-year deal worth $8 million while Chandler banked a four-year, $58 million deal last offseason?

I don't know, why did Javale Mcgee get a 4 year, $45 million contract?

It's not as if there weren't a lot of teams willing to spend this summer. Numerous free agents have received much bigger contracts than what Kaman got from Dallas. Compared to other bigs on the market--like Asik, Hibbert, McGee, and Lopez--Kaman is playing for peanuts.

Hibbert and Lopez bring significantly more value than Kaman. McGee got what most people think is a ridiculous contract, but he has that "potential" with his size and athletic ability.

Just give me one reasonable explanation for why Kaman's contract is pocket change compared to Chandler's, outside of the apparent reality that absolutely no one in the league thinks Kaman's value is anywhere close to Chandler's. Why are you the only one who can see that Kaman is better than Chandler?

I guess we will just have to see how it plays out. My guess is that Kaman makes an excellent compliment to Dirk, and that Tyson Chandler will do his 10/9 thing and play good defense.

I know Kaman is going to start... I know that he is going to be part of the offense. I know he is going to rebound and block shots. And I know that he is going to take some interior pressure off Dirk because he can shoot mid-range jumpers and score around the rim.

“He’s a terrific low-post scorer,” Carlisle said. “He’s a very good mid-range shooter for a 7-footer. I don’t think we’ve ever had a center here that could step out and shoot the 18-foot shot consistently that’s been the caliber of player that Chris Kaman is. Sometimes, Dirk’s the tallest guy on the floor for us, but he’s always the four [power forward] in our system. He’s never been able to play with a five man [center] who shoots it like that.”

Kaman must be "more productive" than Dwight Howard as well, since Howard isn't good at as many random things. Unfortunately, this premise of your productivity argument seems to ignore the fact that not all of those skills should be weighted equally in assessing a center's productivity. For example, free throw shooting isn't all that valuable for a big man who can't even get to the foul line.

Ha, no. Dwight Howard is obviously on a much different level. Tyson Chandler, is not. Let's not be ridiculous here.

Again, you're making a gross oversimplification of the situation that demonstrates an alarming lack of understanding. You're treating a one-year, $20 million offer as some sort of slap in the face. Tyson Chandler is really good, but he's not as great--or as healthy, historically speaking--as Deron Williams or Dwight Howard, both of whom Dallas believed they had a good chance of acquiring by preserving cap space for this summer. Dallas wanted the option of being able to make a run at one of those elite free agents this summer, or to re-sign Chandler if they missed out. Chandler chose the long-term deal instead.

Dallas also wanted all one year contracts for next year. Collison, Jones, (who have 1 year left on their contracts), Kaman all got 1 year contracts. Mayo signed a 2 year deal with a player option after the 1st year. It would not surprise me to see Mayo and Kaman back on different contracts with the Mavericks after next year.

That works for Dallas, and Kaman/Mayo specifically wanted to play for Dallas so that works for them.

Before the beginning of the season, ESPN's 91 NBA experts rated Tyson Chandler #37 in the league; Kaman was #88. I cite that not as a source of authority on the matter, but as an illustration that I'm not making any radical argument by suggesting that Chandler is substantially more valuable than Kaman. Keep in mind that these rankings were before Chandler's DPOY season. Late this season, SI's Zach Lowe--one of the most astute writers covering the league--even went so far as to state that "there is a very strong argument that Chandler is one of the 20 best players in the league."

I guess we will just have to see how it plays out.

[stoops4pres]

Originally Posted by thebigabd

Different position, but I would take Humphries over Chandler.

You Tube

[ouleaf]

Let me start by saying I am a huge Mavs homer.

I was very upset that the Mavs couldn't make one more run of it with their championship team, but looking back on it, I think Cuban made the correct decision. With the hard cap coming and even larger luxury tax fines, Cuban is correct in that the key to operating competitively year in and year out is financial flexibility. Cuban wants to field a competitive team every year and his ego won't allow them to tank a season while Nowitzki is still in a Mavs uniform.

They went all in on their gamble to land a big free agent this offseason in hopes of bringing in the new face of the franchise while Dirk closes out his career. Unfortunately that gamble didn't pay off for them and they were left to scramble to sign more one year contract in hopes of taking another swing at signing a marquee free agent next season.

While the Mavs certainly could have done worse in their signings this offseason, I don't think they could have done much better given their philosophy of staying flexible in the present in the attempt to land a big FA for the future.

This team, with a full training camp to gel this off season, should once again continue their playoff streak, and depending on their matchup could advance a little bit in the playoffs (If Dirk goes beast-mode and role guys step up). But getting back to the finals, I just don't see it happening. Lakers and Thunder are just too much for them to handle I think (which I hate to admit).

Collison is a pretty nice get IMO. I think he could make the biggest impact of any new Mav. His ability to get to the basket and create his own will be huge and something the Mavs sorely missed last season with the exit of JJ Barea. The Mavs offense last season became stagnant and you really need that guy on the floor that can take it to the rim consistently.

Mayo is another intriguing signing. I think they got him at a good price and is still young like Collison. He can score, but not as efficiently as you'd like to from a 2 guard. Maybe he'll have more open shots with an elite scorer like Dirk on the floor and he can improve that efficiency.

Brand, while no longer the perennial 20-10 guy anymore, he's still a pretty nice backup 4 option to have for only $2+ million. He's got a pretty crafty low post game and is still pretty admirable at defending both the 4 and 5 spots. Also has a good relationship with Kaman from their Clipper days.

Kaman, while he's nowhere close to replacing what Chandler brought to the team (a true defensive anchor compliment to Dirk's offensive dominance), Kaman is certainly an upgrade over Haywood or Mahinmi. You'd think his numbers should trend up a little bit, just with the focus that Dirk draws from most teams. While he isn't your ideal center, out of all the ones that you could get on a one year deal, I don't know if you could have done better. He just needs to stay healthy.

Not looking for too much from the Mavs draft picks. Carlisle notoriously hates playing rookies. Cunningham has some pretty freakish athleticism, but that doesn't mean anything on if he can play in the league or not. Unfortunately he's hasn't really been able to play in the summer league to judge him more.

It's a huge year for Roddy B and Dominique Jones. These guys have to step up and contribute this season and earn some trust from Carlisle. If these guys can get it together, then the Mavs will be a pretty deep team.

[thebigabd]

Collison is a pretty nice get IMO. I think he could make the biggest impact of any new Mav. His ability to get to the basket and create his own will be huge and something the Mavs sorely missed last season with the exit of JJ Barea. The Mavs offense last season became stagnant and you really need that guy on the floor that can take it to the rim consistently.

I think Collison will surprise some people. When he put up good numbers in New Orleans he played a pick and roll game with West, and he thrived. He said the system didnt fit him in Indy, but now he gets to run the floor and play 100% pick and roll which is what he does best.

I think he will have a great year.

[stoops4pres]

Originally Posted by ouleaf

Let me start by saying I am a huge Mavs homer.

I was very upset that the Mavs couldn't make one more run of it with their championship team, but looking back on it, I think Cuban made the correct decision. With the hard cap coming and even larger luxury tax fines, Cuban is correct in that the key to operating competitively year in and year out is financial flexibility. Cuban wants to field a competitive team every year and his ego won't allow them to tank a season while Nowitzki is still in a Mavs uniform.

They went all in on their gamble to land a big free agent this offseason in hopes of bringing in the new face of the franchise while Dirk closes out his career. Unfortunately that gamble didn't pay off for them and they were left to scramble to sign more one year contract in hopes of taking another swing at signing a marquee free agent next season.

While the Mavs certainly could have done worse in their signings this offseason, I don't think they could have done much better given their philosophy of staying flexible in the present in the attempt to land a big FA for the future.

This team, with a full training camp to gel this off season, should once again continue their playoff streak, and depending on their matchup could advance a little bit in the playoffs (If Dirk goes beast-mode and role guys step up). But getting back to the finals, I just don't see it happening. Lakers and Thunder are just too much for them to handle I think (which I hate to admit).

Collison is a pretty nice get IMO. I think he could make the biggest impact of any new Mav. His ability to get to the basket and create his own will be huge and something the Mavs sorely missed last season with the exit of JJ Barea. The Mavs offense last season became stagnant and you really need that guy on the floor that can take it to the rim consistently.

Mayo is another intriguing signing. I think they got him at a good price and is still young like Collison. He can score, but not as efficiently as you'd like to from a 2 guard. Maybe he'll have more open shots with an elite scorer like Dirk on the floor and he can improve that efficiency.

Brand, while no longer the perennial 20-10 guy anymore, he's still a pretty nice backup 4 option to have for only $2+ million. He's got a pretty crafty low post game and is still pretty admirable at defending both the 4 and 5 spots. Also has a good relationship with Kaman from their Clipper days.

Kaman, while he's nowhere close to replacing what Chandler brought to the team (a true defensive anchor compliment to Dirk's offensive dominance), Kaman is certainly an upgrade over Haywood or Mahinmi. You'd think his numbers should trend up a little bit, just with the focus that Dirk draws from most teams. While he isn't your ideal center, out of all the ones that you could get on a one year deal, I don't know if you could have done better. He just needs to stay healthy.

Not looking for too much from the Mavs draft picks. Carlisle notoriously hates playing rookies. Cunningham has some pretty freakish athleticism, but that doesn't mean anything on if he can play in the league or not. Unfortunately he's hasn't really been able to play in the summer league to judge him more.

It's a huge year for Roddy B and Dominique Jones. These guys have to step up and contribute this season and earn some trust from Carlisle. If these guys can get it together, then the Mavs will be a pretty deep team.

All good points. Cuban found enough adequate stop-gaps to be a quality team this season, and it'll be interesting to see if they can land any prize FA's next offseason.

[thebigabd]

On paper, the Mavs' new lineup, which presumably features Collison and Mayo in the backcourt with Shawn Marion, Nowitzki and Kaman filling out the front court, have increased their firepower. Last season, Dallas' starting lineup included two virtual non-scoring threats in Kidd and center Brendan Haywood. Marion averaged just 10.6 points and neither starting shooting guard, Vince Carter and Delonte West, averaged more than 10.1 points.

Other than Nowitzki (21.6 ppg), no Mavs starter last season averaged more than Marion, and Marion's points came largely on slashes to the bucket and offensive rebounds. Dallas' starting five averaged just 53.7 points a game (and slightly less with West as the starter).

The projected starting five for next season stands to feature three new faces and, on paper, will yield more scoring threats.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...oring-increase

[Smash Williams]

Originally Posted by thebigabd

I don't know, why did Javale Mcgee get a 4 year, $45 million contract?

Because young centers with potential get huge contracts, which goes along with the general trend of NBA teams looking for any reason to throw tons of money at big men, except for Chris Kaman.

Originally Posted by thebigabd

Hibbert and Lopez bring significantly more value than Kaman. McGee got what most people think is a ridiculous contract, but he has that "potential" with his size and athletic ability.

So players get bigger contracts based on actual value or potential? 29-year-old Tyson Chandler didn't get $58 million based on potential.

Originally Posted by thebigabd

Ha, no. Dwight Howard is obviously on a much different level. Tyson Chandler, is not. Let's not be ridiculous here.

Dwight Howard is on a different level than Chandler, and Chandler is on a different level than Kaman. There is nothing ridiculous about the latter argument. You seem to be the only person in the world, outside of the Kaman family, who disputes this.

Originally Posted by thebigabd

Dallas also wanted all one year contracts for next year. Collison, Jones, (who have 1 year left on their contracts), Kaman all got 1 year contracts. Mayo signed a 2 year deal with a player option after the 1st year. It would not surprise me to see Mayo and Kaman back on different contracts with the Mavericks after next year.

Dallas only wanting one-year contracts has nothing to do with the fact that no other team was willing to offer Kaman a big contract. Most 30-year-old free agents only have one big contract left in their careers; they don't pass up big long-term money for a one-year deal, unless they have no better option. When Chandler only got offered one year from Dallas, he went elsewhere for a boatload of money. That's what happens when a player actually has options, and Chandler had options because he's clearly a superior player to Kaman.

[Smash Williams]

Originally Posted by ouleaf

Let me start by saying I am a huge Mavs homer.

I was very upset that the Mavs couldn't make one more run of it with their championship team, but looking back on it, I think Cuban made the correct decision. With the hard cap coming and even larger luxury tax fines, Cuban is correct in that the key to operating competitively year in and year out is financial flexibility. Cuban wants to field a competitive team every year and his ego won't allow them to tank a season while Nowitzki is still in a Mavs uniform.

They went all in on their gamble to land a big free agent this offseason in hopes of bringing in the new face of the franchise while Dirk closes out his career. Unfortunately that gamble didn't pay off for them and they were left to scramble to sign more one year contract in hopes of taking another swing at signing a marquee free agent next season.

While the Mavs certainly could have done worse in their signings this offseason, I don't think they could have done much better given their philosophy of staying flexible in the present in the attempt to land a big FA for the future.

This team, with a full training camp to gel this off season, should once again continue their playoff streak, and depending on their matchup could advance a little bit in the playoffs (If Dirk goes beast-mode and role guys step up). But getting back to the finals, I just don't see it happening. Lakers and Thunder are just too much for them to handle I think (which I hate to admit).

Collison is a pretty nice get IMO. I think he could make the biggest impact of any new Mav. His ability to get to the basket and create his own will be huge and something the Mavs sorely missed last season with the exit of JJ Barea. The Mavs offense last season became stagnant and you really need that guy on the floor that can take it to the rim consistently.

Mayo is another intriguing signing. I think they got him at a good price and is still young like Collison. He can score, but not as efficiently as you'd like to from a 2 guard. Maybe he'll have more open shots with an elite scorer like Dirk on the floor and he can improve that efficiency.

Brand, while no longer the perennial 20-10 guy anymore, he's still a pretty nice backup 4 option to have for only $2+ million. He's got a pretty crafty low post game and is still pretty admirable at defending both the 4 and 5 spots. Also has a good relationship with Kaman from their Clipper days.

Kaman, while he's nowhere close to replacing what Chandler brought to the team (a true defensive anchor compliment to Dirk's offensive dominance), Kaman is certainly an upgrade over Haywood or Mahinmi. You'd think his numbers should trend up a little bit, just with the focus that Dirk draws from most teams. While he isn't your ideal center, out of all the ones that you could get on a one year deal, I don't know if you could have done better. He just needs to stay healthy.

Not looking for too much from the Mavs draft picks. Carlisle notoriously hates playing rookies. Cunningham has some pretty freakish athleticism, but that doesn't mean anything on if he can play in the league or not. Unfortunately he's hasn't really been able to play in the summer league to judge him more.

It's a huge year for Roddy B and Dominique Jones. These guys have to step up and contribute this season and earn some trust from Carlisle. If these guys can get it together, then the Mavs will be a pretty deep team.

Well said. I don't have a problem with Dallas' strategy (they've made reasonable calculated risks), and I actually like the Kaman and Brand acquisitions as a stop-gap.

Your post is highly reasonable, unlike the question posed in the thread title.

[playmakr]

which goes along with the general trend of NBA teams looking for any reason to throw tons of money at big men, except for Chris Kaman.

[thebigabd]

Where do you get your stats, rankings, etc Smash?

[bocabull]

The Mavs added role players/reserves from middle of the pack playoff teams to their middle of the pack playoff team.

They treaded water which is the way to run an NBA franchise. Stay competitive and when you happen to have an off year you get a chance to add a difference maker through the draft or free agency to your already competitive team.

[ouleaf]

Originally Posted by Smash Williams

Well said. I don't have a problem with Dallas' strategy (they've made reasonable calculated risks), and I actually like the Kaman and Brand acquisitions as a stop-gap.

Your post is highly reasonable, unlike the question posed in the thread title.

Yeah, I love my Mavs, but it's pretty obvious to see that they just don't have the talent to matchup with the Lakers or Thunder as presently constituted. They'd really have to catch lightning in a bottle and play out of their minds to make another run this season.

I sometimes worry that Cubes and Donnie have over-thought the new CBA provisions and are trying to out smart everyone, given that it really hasn't stopped teams from spending pretty recklessly this offseason, but they really would have been screwed if the signed all those guys from the championship team to long term deals and then they don't repeat or contend over the next 2-3 years. Dirk would probably retire, and then they are stuck with a bunch of really old guys on bad contracts and no cap space.

[ouleaf]

Originally Posted by bocabull

The Mavs added role players/reserves from middle of the pack playoff teams to their middle of the pack playoff team.

They treaded water which is the way to run an NBA franchise. Stay competitive and when you happen to have an off year you get a chance to add a difference maker through the draft or free agency to your already competitive team.

Yeah, Cuban is a great owner in that he wants to have a real chance to compete every season. I'm not sure if he'll ever tank a season to sink down to the lottery. Sometimes you have to do that though because its the only way to grab a superstar like the Sonics/Thunder with Durant, the Bulls with Rose, or Spurs with Duncan.

But at the same point I think he owes it to Dirk to put together the best team possible for him, otherwise they should just trade him. Only problem with that is there is no way you get back fair value for him. I just wouldn't see a realistic trade scenario out there where the Mavs would come away the winners in the deal.

[ouleaf]

Also looking like the Mavs are going to come to terms with FA Delonte West. He was a pretty nice surprise for the Mavs last season. Adds depth and seems like he really enjoys it here. Like it.

[bocabull]

Actually leaf, none of those teams tanked to land those players. The Sonics were 1 year removed from the playoffs with Ray Allen & Rashard Lewis. They had some injuries and hit the lottery jackpot which guanteed them Durant at which point they went young. The Spurs had 1 fluke bad season due to a David Robinson injury and hit lottery jackpot for Duncan. The Bulls had been picking lottery for years before finally hitting on Rose.

The best path is to try and win every year and in the off season try to add the best players possible.

[ouleaf]

Originally Posted by bocabull

Actually leaf, none of those teams tanked to land those players. The Sonics were 1 year removed from the playoffs with Ray Allen & Rashard Lewis. They had some injuries and hit the lottery jackpot which guanteed them Durant at which point they went young. The Spurs had 1 fluke bad season due to a David Robinson injury and hit lottery jackpot for Duncan. The Bulls had been picking lottery for years before finally hitting on Rose.

The best path is to try and win every year and in the off season try to add the best players possible.

While there is no way to prove it, it's pretty widely speculated that the Spurs held out Robinson longer than what was really necessary during that 96-97 seasons.

The Boston Celtics have certainly tanked games/seasons to improve their draft position.