The crisis in women's sports covereage

[SoonerNorm]

Originally Posted by IBleedCrimson&Cream

Don't get ahead of yourself Tango!

But I agree, I think losing Whitney and the struggles in righting the ship hurt attendance in addition to the departure of the Parises, plus the economy and the rise of the Thunder, to a degree. I think what we have next year will lead to a rise in attendance, as long as everyone stays healthy.

As far as the crisis in women's sports coverage, I honestly don't think it exists. Like others have said, coverage follows the money and women's sports doesn't have the draw that men's sports do. It may never. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It might actually be a blessing. If the WNBA had a bigger draw, there would be more money in it and I think we might see what's happening to the men's game with one-and-done or two-and-through. The way that it is, women's college sports is not about the money to be made in the pros after college, its about getting that diploma. I just don't understand why some people feel they need to be so hateful in opposition to women's sports.

Great post!

[35TangoTango]

Originally Posted by IBleedCrimson&Cream

Don't get ahead of yourself Tango!

(Fixed)

[afan4hand]

I may be the only one that thinks our attendance will go back up next season (unless the economy gets worse), but with taller bigs, more speed and more sharp shooters, I look for this to be one of our most exciting season's yet. I look for us to continue to get better through the 2012-13 season with the commits we have lined-up! Go Sooners!!!

[SoonerNorm]

Originally Posted by afan4hand

I may be the only one that thinks our attendance will go back up next season (unless the economy gets worse), but with taller bigs, more speed and more sharp shooters, I look for this to be one of our most exciting season's yet. I look for us to continue to get better through the 2012-13 season with the commits we have lined-up! Go Sooners!!!

I think all of the die-hards are excited about the upcoming season but I just have no way of knowing whether the casual fans will feel the same way. If they do, LNC should be rockin for several home games.

[betterstill]

They used to have school kids attending the women's games. I am sure they were in free or very cheaply. That added to the numbers. I think they did away with that as they started selling more tickets.

If you want to see an example of the decline of women's basketball look at Texas Tech. I watched a Lubbock game on TV late in the season and there were only a handful of people attending. A few years ago they had a strong program.

My spouse and I are ready to get revved up for this season. The Sooners have some kind of ice cream deal to introduce the new players in August.

[SoonerNorm]

Originally Posted by betterstill

They used to have school kids attending the women's games. I am sure they were in free or very cheaply. That added to the numbers. I think they did away with that as they started selling more tickets.

If you want to see an example of the decline of women's basketball look at Texas Tech. I watched a Lubbock game on TV late in the season and there were only a handful of people attending. A few years ago they had a strong program.

My spouse and I are ready to get revved up for this season. The Sooners have some kind of ice cream deal to introduce the new players in August.

I really liked the idea of letting kids in for next to nothing. That is a good way to get them hooked on Sooner basketball and hopefully keep them hooked for the rest of their lives.

[rocjunkie]

Originally Posted by SoonerNorm

I really liked the idea of letting kids in for next to nothing. That is a good way to get them hooked on Sooner basketball and hopefully keep them hooked for the rest of their lives.

Absloutely, reserve one section for the students and encourage them to participate and rock the LNC.

[YCN]

Originally Posted by rocjunkie

Absloutely, reserve one section for the students and encourage them to participate and rock the LNC.

If I'm not mistaken, all of the seats in the lower level are already taken up by season ticket holders. Whether or not those people attend, you can't take those seats away to give to students.

However, home games against what I'd call "b-level" competition doesn't come close to selling out at this time. Additionally, most mid-week games in conference play fall far short of sellouts.

I can't see anything but benefits accruing to the program by selling youth tickets for a buck, for instance. Fill up those empty seats, and if the reserved seats aren't claimed by halftime, allow those who are seated in the upper level to fill them on a first-come, first-served basis. It's a win-win for everyone to get youth involved in the games.

OU students already have deeply discounted tickets but don't attend in large numbers, so let the kids have their chance to be a part of an excellent program. A good percentage of those will take that enthusiasm for the game into their adult lives, thereby helping to perpetuate an excellent atmosphere for Sooner women's basketball into the future.

[SoonerShamrock]

If I'm not mistaken, OU students get in free to women's games. Just show your i.d.

Also, after tipoff, anyone from general admission can move into any vacant seat in the lower bowl. Of course, if that person was just late and shows up with a ticket (a common thing with a family who sits in front of me a couple of rows), you'll have to move.

[35TangoTango]

Originally Posted by betterstill

They used to have school kids attending the women's games. I am sure they were in free or very cheaply. That added to the numbers. I think they did away with that as they started selling more tickets.

If you want to see an example of the decline of women's basketball look at Texas Tech. I watched a Lubbock game on TV late in the season and there were only a handful of people attending. A few years ago they had a strong program.

My spouse and I are ready to get revved up for this season. The Sooners have some kind of ice cream deal to introduce the new players in August.

They have a special night for that. They send tickets to all the elementary schools, and give prizes to the top 3 schools attendance-wise. Top school gets a computer. I think they have Norman night, a Moore night, etc. And of course any time a girls basketball team wants to come, they get in and get recognized.

[rocjunkie]

Originally Posted by YCN

If I'm not mistaken, all of the seats in the lower level are already taken up by season ticket holders. Whether or not those people attend, you can't take those seats away to give to students.

However, home games against what I'd call "b-level" competition doesn't come close to selling out at this time. Additionally, most mid-week games in conference play fall far short of sellouts.

I can't see anything but benefits accruing to the program by selling youth tickets for a buck, for instance. Fill up those empty seats, and if the reserved seats aren't claimed by halftime, allow those who are seated in the upper level to fill them on a first-come, first-served basis. It's a win-win for everyone to get youth involved in the games.

OU students already have deeply discounted tickets but don't attend in large numbers, so let the kids have their chance to be a part of an excellent program. A good percentage of those will take that enthusiasm for the game into their adult lives, thereby helping to perpetuate an excellent atmosphere for Sooner women's basketball into the future.

Actually LW6 at the LNC is reserved for student seating, and with exception to the "white out and pink out" games they are very seldom full of students. However I agree with the rest of your statement. Any thing to help promote as close to a sell out as possible is all right with me. Nothing like rockin out the Loyd Noble for a girls basketball game.

[sdcloud9]

There are a lot of great points made in this thread.

I do believe the Thunder has affected OU and OSU in basketball attendance as well as the economy.

Women's basketball is never going to be highly publicized on a national scale until the television ratings improve. If the ratings are low, the networks are not going to pay a huge attention. Five thousand fans at NCAA Tournament games is not going to get it done. Of course, I was at the NCAA Men's Tournament last year at OKC with KU and KSU and there were probably 12,000 fans at the most (on the day the weather was good).

Women's teams receive no money for NCAA Tournament appearances, only travel expenses. When the school's don't receive money for their playing in a national tournament, it's easy to see the fan base and the money is not there for a national following, thus no national coverage.

[OKUman]

Originally Posted by 35TangoTango

Which team do you think will have the better attendance next year? OU Men's basketball or OU Women's basketball?

I have had season tickets to both for over 10 years and last year from what I saw there were a lot of games that the women had better attendance.

[SoonerSpock]

Originally Posted by OKUman

I have had season tickets to both for over 10 years and last year from what I saw there were a lot of games that the women had better attendance.

I think last season was a classic illustration in the difference in the popularity of both men's and women's basketball at OU. There were definitely times when attendance to the women's game in Norman was better than the corresponding men's game. As a season ticketholder to both, it was the exception not the rule when the women were a better draw than the men.

However if you consider the opponent of each team, the record of each team (women competing for a Final Four slot, men trying to stay out of the B12 cellar) and the men's ticket costing more than twice the cost of women's ticket it was very evident which program had the most support. I do not see that changing in the foreseeable future. Consequently there will be less coverage by the media for the women's game.

[YCN]

Very good news regarding this topic.

(I think.)

http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet..._jo_kane_espn/

[SoonerSpock]

Very positive progress in the right direction. Unfortunately the 70% viewing audience that is male, in my opinion, makes for the suppression of women's athletics in sports. Too many males are too macho with regard to strength and speed in athletics to see women as true athletes.

For example this segment of the viewing public wants basketball to become more physical and players play more above the rim with all of the emphasis on strength, stamina and speed totally disregarding fundamental, hand-eye coordination and team concepts. Consequently they see the female shortcomings in these areas as validation for their insignificance as a true sports.

It will be a slow process to enlighten the male gender to the fact that comparing women's sports to men's sports is like comparing apples to oranges. Hence the continued feeding of the male ego by the media outlets.

Most of these frustrated over-the hill, want-to-be male athletes would be humiliated by the ladies were they to have to compete against them. They just do not know it or are in denial.

[SoonerNorm]

Originally Posted by SoonerSpock

Very positive progress in the right direction. Unfortunately the 70% viewing audience that is male, in my opinion, makes for the suppression of women's athletics in sports. Too many males are too macho with regard to strength and speed in athletics to see women as true athletes.

For example this segment of the viewing public wants basketball to become more physical and players play more above the rim with all of the emphasis on strength, stamina and speed totally disregarding fundamental, hand-eye coordination and team concepts. Consequently they see the female shortcomings in these areas as validation for their insignificance as a true sports.

It will be a slow process to enlighten the male gender to the fact that comparing women's sports to men's sports is like comparing apples to oranges. Hence the continued feeding of the male ego by the media outlets.

Most of these frustrated over-the hill, want-to-be male athletes would be humiliated by the ladies were they to have to compete against them. They just do not know it or are in denial.

I think you could say "basic fundamentals" period. We have seen a decrease in fundamentals in basketball over the last few years. First with the men and now with the women. I think that explains why some players do not excel in college until their junior and senior years because the college coaches are trying to drill into to the players what they didn't learn before they got to college, and that's basketball fundamentals. We have discussed them here over the last year so I will not repeat them. I think jr. high as well as high school coaches are responsible for allowing the elite players to coast when it comes to fundamentals and I'm pretty sure the AAU coaches do not spend much practice time worrying about them either.

I know something about training horses. I can assure you that the horses that win at the shows are the ones that are doing the fundamentals correctly. Trainers never stop enforcing the basic fundamentals that all young horses are first taught. Yes, they teach far more than basics to the advanced horses but that doesn't mean that they allow the fundamentals to slid. Those fundamentals are stressed each and every time a trainer is on his back. If you watch a trainer, the first 15-20 minutes of every ride will be going over the basics in a variety of exercises. They may only spend the next 15-20 minutes working on advanced manuevers before unsaddling the horse for the day. They never take fundamentals for granted because everything is based on those fundamentals being correct.

When a college coach receives a player that is very talented but weak on fundamentals, they have their hands full of trying to use that talent to form them into a complete basketball player. We are seeing more great athletes than ever before on the basketball court. But, we have seen fundamentals suffer at the same time.

[SoonerSpock]

Originally Posted by SoonerNorm

I think you could say "basic fundamentals" period. We have seen a decrease in fundamentals in basketball over the last few years. First with the men and now with the women. I think that explains why some players do not excel in college until their junior and senior years because the college coaches are trying to drill into to the players what they didn't learn before they got to college, and that's basketball fundamentals. We have discussed them here over the last year so I will not repeat them. I think jr. high as well as high school coaches are responsible for allowing the elite players to coast when it comes to fundamentals and I'm pretty sure the AAU coaches do not spend much practice time worrying about them either.

I know something about training horses. I can assure you that the horses that win at the shows are the ones that are doing the fundamentals correctly. Trainers never stop enforcing the basic fundamentals that all young horses are first taught. Yes, they teach far more than basics to the advanced horses but that doesn't mean that they allow the fundamentals to slid. Those fundamentals are stressed each and every time a trainer is on his back. If you watch a trainer, the first 15-20 minutes of every ride will be going over the basics in a variety of exercises. They may only spend the next 15-20 minutes working on advanced manuevers before unsaddling the horse for the day. They never take fundamentals for granted because everything is based on those fundamentals being correct.

When a college coach receives a player that is very talented but weak on fundamentals, they have their hands full of trying to use that talent to form them into a complete basketball player. We are seeing more great athletes than ever before on the basketball court. But, we have seen fundamentals suffer at the same time.

A retired Tinker Air Force officer wrote a high school algebra book 20 years back or so . I think his name was Sexton or Saxton. The book was credited with making significant improvements in the math scores made by students on their AST/SAT test when implemented in a high school.

The crux of the text that was different from previous algebra books was the methodology of the chapter ending review problems. Traditional algebra books focused on problems almost solely on the new material covered in the last chapter. Sexton's book focused the problems at the end of the chapter with a good portion of the problems (25-50%) as review of material covered in previous chapters and the balance on the new material.

The continued focus on reviewing the fundamentals previously learned was attributed to being the reason for the improved learning of the students. It appears focus on the basics postively impact both academic and athletic performance. I too think an absence of focus on fundamentals/basics negatively impacts results in most things.

[rocjunkie]

As those of us who have coached girls in the past, the truth is that most of us were lucky to get one "super stud" if any on a team. To be quite honest she would be a luxury, but not the deciding factor in wins and losses.

As Spock and Norm have said, and might I add excellent points of views, the continuing of refreshing the fundamentals in practice after practice give a solid foundation for those kids fortunate enough to move on to High School and possibly the College level. Our teams were constantly challenged by better talent in league play, but what our girls were able to do was apply their basic fundamentals and solid itelligent play to off set some of the better and more athletic teams.

I may be talking out of turn, but I think that may be the difference in the success of Sherri Coale over some other coaches in Division I. We on the board are constantly wanting the elite kids to come to the Sooners. Some day we may get our fair share and then may be not. With the success that Sherri is able to achieve by recruiting good, itelligent, fundamentally sound, talent, she continues to take the Sooners above and beyond our sometimes expectations and will continue to do so.

Now if we can get more fans of both genders to appreciate the different textures of the game of basketball so they can relish in the joy of a well excuted give and go, double screen down low, and solid pump fakes at the glass, then they can enjoy both those that play above the rim and those that use their knowledge of the game to get the upper hand. It will take a while and a lot of work from the "us" the die hard women's fan to accomplish that, but I sure as hell won't go down with out a fight.

Boomer Sooner Lady fans.

[35TangoTango]

Originally Posted by rocjunkie

As those of us who have coached girls in the past, the truth is that most of us were lucky to get one "super stud" if any on a team. To be quite honest she would be a luxury, but not the deciding factor in wins and losses.

As Spock and Norm have said, and might I add excellent points of views, the continuing of refreshing the fundamentals in practice after practice give a solid foundation for those kids fortunate enough to move on to High School and possibly the College level. Our teams were constantly challenged by better talent in league play, but what our girls were able to do was apply their basic fundamentals and solid itelligent play to off set some of the better and more athletic teams.

I may be talking out of turn, but I think that may be the difference in the success of Sherri Coale over some other coaches in Division I. We on the board are constantly wanting the elite kids to come to the Sooners. Some day we may get our fair share and then may be not. With the success that Sherri is able to achieve by recruiting good, itelligent, fundamentally sound, talent, she continues to take the Sooners above and beyond our sometimes expectations and will continue to do so.

Now if we can get more fans of both genders to appreciate the different textures of the game of basketball so they can relish in the joy of a well excuted give and go, double screen down low, and solid pump fakes at the glass, then they can enjoy both those that play above the rim and those that use their knowledge of the game to get the upper hand. It will take a while and a lot of work from the "us" the die hard women's fan to accomplish that, but I sure as hell won't go down with out a fight.

Boomer Sooner Lady fans.

This is the best post I've seen on any board in quite a while.

[YCN]

This may be getting a bit off-topic, but I do hope we see better coverage of the Sooners this year, for good reason.

I've watched over the years, celebrated Final Four appearances and hoped like crazy that somehow the '02 team could beat UConn; agonized over torn ACL's; watched in warm and open admiration how a very limited team overcame their deficiencies to become one of the best teams in the country last year.

The talent that OU's lost in the last two years probably matches almost any program in the country, but something else has been happening that has really caught my attention. This team is approaching a zone that I've been wishing for since I first became totally caught up in what they were about.

Sherri's been crafting this team and taking talent that she feels is right for her team in her time, not anybody's rankings list regarding the best players. Even so there's a strong core of top 100 talent on this team right now: Whitney, Danielle, Joanna, Aaryn, Nicole, Morgan, Jacqueline, probably 1-2 more that would have been top 100 with the right exposure. But more than that, Sherri takes players that exhibit those characteristics that she's looking for in a team, players with intelligence, court smarts, varying special characteristics to their games. And along with that you can add maturity, class, discipline and drive. We'll see where the chemistry goes this year, but I expect it to be good. Sherri's careful about that.

Anyway, I think this unit is reaching the flash point where all of those characteristics plus a fair amount of talent and experience all come together to create something that is larger than the separate parts. I believe the great programs reach that flash point, and keep returning to it with talent, chemistry and great coaching. People are going to be surprised by this team this year. I see a lot of players every year being slotted by the fans into expectation levels, and I don't know how you can do that with any of our recruits this year. We are going to be a load for anybody this year, especially as the youngsters become acclimated to the system. While it may take some time for this team to approach its potential, we should know within the first few games whether or not my personal intuition is correct.

And if I am right, and right now I see no reason why I can't be, then this team alone will be enough of an entertainment to fully justify those who believe that women's basketball isn't getting a fair shake right now.

Just watch, you'll see.

[SoonerNorm]

I think this team will be good because our guards will be good. If we can find someone, who is average or better, to replace Ny, our guards can/will carry this team. We need the post players to rebound, play defense, screen, and make free throws. I really don't expect that we will have a post player who will average double figures in scoring which will be a change from the last several years. But, if they can do the other things really well, we will be fine. I expect us to be better next year and the year after that but we can hold our own this year with most teams.

[rocjunkie]

Originally Posted by SoonerNorm

I think this team will be good because our guards will be good. If we can find someone, who is average or better, to replace Ny, our guards can/will carry this team. We need the post players to rebound, play defense, screen, and make free throws. I really don't expect that we will have a post player who will average double figures in scoring which will be a change from the last several years. But, if they can do the other things really well, we will be fine. I expect us to be better next year and the year after that but we can hold our own this year with most teams.

Good points, I don't worry too much about replacing NY. I just got a gut feeling we will be very strong and at least four or five deep at the guard positions. I agree on the post play completely. I don't really care so much about having double digit scoring from down low, though it would be nice to have ten or twelve points a game. If our posts can rebound, play solid defense, set crunching consistent screens and learn to hit the outlet gal with good passes, then we will be very difficult to stop. I hope Jelena, Jo, Jacqueline, Lyndsey, Nicole, and Carlee can give us solid minutes and good combined stats each game. That will be the key to how far we can go, and I agree with YCN, I think when all is said and done, this team will be special come February and March.